If it really bends that easily then the new shuffle is f**ed up, it should be designed to handle every day usage which includes human movement. No one should defend apple on this. Cell phones and all kinds of other small gadgets are meant to take regular abuse so why shouldn't an ipod?
amen.
i always drop my cell phones and they look and work great.
ipods are just too delicate and need to withstand more regular abuse. it's not stupidity or obesity. it's a design flaw. it's just fragile.
and the dock... apple should have included a mini usb port. now his ipod is useless unless he fixes the clip or he gets a new synching solution.
If you carried a knife, pen, pencil, whatever in your pocket, something might go wrong if you sit down!!!!
The other objects you mentioned are long and thin. A tiny, nearly square object shouldn't have the same level of forces. I would understand the comparison if you were referring to the 1st Gen shuffle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iconsumer
i'm skinny and i know that when i sit with my keys in my front jeans pocket...they bend too
You've bent keys in your pocket? How does that happen? I've never seen or heard of that. It's certainly not happened to me in the fifteen years I've been carrying keys in my pocket. Keys are thicker, but they are longer too.
I'll grant that this may be staged thing though, given where it was bent, if you try to force the clip open too far, that's probably where it would bend. I'm trying to figure out how I can sit down with a clipped shuffle and have the clip open too far.
Aluminium is a soft metal. It might not have been a good choice for making a clip. Maybe they should have made the edges curl over to give the clip more ridgidity.
I'd still want one because I could wear it in other places, and it's the best small mp3 player that I know of. But I think Apple could of done it more different (in a better way.)
Some of you all would stick up for apple and jobs if there was video tape of steve clearly beating a baby to death with a hammer.
This is a bad design if that happens when someone sits down. And if that does happen then Apple should have NEVER put someone wearing it like that in their advertising campaign. Just shows that not enough quality control went into the product before it's release. If you think that everyone is going to treat their ipod like it is an egg, then you are un-realistic. Sh*t like this is just going to give apple products a bad name... something they don't need with Microsoft looking over their shoulder in the portable digital music player department.
Based on these figures (dimensions) and my calculations (sigma = 20 ksi) it takes about 3 pounds of force applied normal to the end of the clip to initiate (yield) bending as shown by the affected shuffle owner (assuming the clip bottoms out in it's maximum opened position via bearing against the top of the shuffle body). That would be a uniform force across the entire width, if non-uniform, the force necessary to initiate bending would be less than this!
THREE POUNDS!
Apple made the clip very thin (~0.75 mm), yet have two huge "snaggleteeth" of aluminum, that could have been used more effectively to stiffen the clip plate, regardless, a design that creates an unintended mechanical advantage, allows the plate to "bottom out" is a very poor design, IMHO.
Sure, aluminum bends. But isn't it a bit of a design flaw that it's possible to do that under normal usage conditions (I'm very cautious with my stuff and this was the first time it fell down)? A possible solution would've been to allow the clip to open more, so that the hinge 'absorbs' the energy which would otherwise be put in bending the clip.
And to reply to others, I wasn't wearing a belt and I'm certainly not overweight (and don't live in the USA either).
Besides that, any suggestions in repairing it nicely? The hinge seems to be very fragile as well and applying any pressure to the whole shuffle, e.g. by using a vice, will make the round part (where the headphone jack is located) lose its shape.
I firmly believe it is a) due to poor design, b) a poor example of use (in the ad), and c) poor judgement by the user.
I ran my own company manufacturing infra-red heat processing systems for industrial processes, before retiring, and always used aluminium in various forms - for reflectors or various other heat dissipation uses.
Aluminium is a good dissipator of heat and is the reason it is used in heat sinks for cooling electronics or components, but it has poor mechanical strength. If the body had instead been made of steel, it would have to have been made considerably larger to achieve sufficient cooling efficiency. Alternatively, if the clip itself had been made of steel, to have greater resistance to bending, it is not a good idea to use dissimilar metals together in this way.
Although aluminium has very poor structural strength, there are a number of very hard grades that could be used instead. I believe the simplest solution is for Apple to increase the thickness of the clip, combined with the hardest possible aluminium specification, with possibly a lateral indentation for extra stiffness. Increasing the thickness of the clip would not really be detrimental to the appearance of the Shuffle.
As for clipping the Shuffle to the change pocket as shown in the example by Apple, to most people with manufacturing experience, common sense would tell you this is a bad idea, as the combination of the weak aluminium and the mechanical forces when bending or sitting down are likely to cause damage. On the other hand, many users would not think of the possible consequences when they see an advert by Apple showing it worn this way. Finally, although it may be possible to straighten the clip to a certain extent, it is unlikely to become completely staright again, and the straightening forces are likely to create permanent stress cracking in the bend area. IMHO I believe Apple should redesign it and replace your Shuffle and anyone else's which gets bent, it's definitely a design fault.
I firmly believe it is a) due to poor design, b) a poor example of use (in the ad), and c) poor judgement by the user.
I ran my own company manufacturing infra-red heat processing systems for industrial processes, before retiring, and always used aluminium in various forms - for reflectors or various other heat dissipation uses.
Aluminium is a good dissipator of heat and is the reason it is used in heat sinks for cooling electronics or components, but it has poor mechanical strength. If the body had instead been made of steel, it would have to have been made considerably larger to achieve sufficient cooling efficiency. Alternatively, if the clip itself had been made of steel, to have greater resistance to bending, it is not a good idea to use dissimilar metals together in this way.
Although aluminium has very poor structural strength, there are a number of very hard grades that could be used instead. I believe the simplest solution is for Apple to increase the thickness of the clip, combined with the hardest possible aluminium specification, with possibly a lateral indentation for extra stiffness. Increasing the thickness of the clip would not really be detrimental to the appearance of the Shuffle.
As for clipping the Shuffle to the change pocket as shown in the example by Apple, to most people with manufacturing experience, common sense would tell you this is a bad idea, as the combination of the weak aluminium and the mechanical forces when bending or sitting down are likely to cause damage. On the other hand, many users would not think of the possible consequences when they see an advert by Apple showing it worn this way. Finally, although it may be possible to straighten the clip to a certain extent, it is unlikely to become completely staright again, and the straightening forces are likely to create permanent stress cracking in the bend area. IMHO I believe Apple should redesign it and replace your Shuffle and anyone else's which gets bent, it's definitely a design fault.
I don't think so!
6000 series (35 ksi yield), 7000 series (60-100 ksi yield).
7000 series (typically 80 ksi yield) is widely used in the aircraft industry, 5000 series (35 ksi yield) is widely used in the marine industry, any application where weight AND cost are important, in those situations it's tough to beat aluminum! Not by high strength titanium, not by high strength SS, and not by high strength FRP. Strength per dollar and strength per pound. It's important to remember that it's the specific strength (strength divided by density) and specific modulus (modulus divided by density) of any material, if weight is a central issue. After that it's a matter of cost.
Stress cracking isn't an issue provided it hasn't exceeded it's plastic limit. I'm guessing Apple used something similar to 3003 aluminum (but if it was made in China, who knows), that's usually cheaper than other aluminums.
A redesign would seem to be in order, if this situation occurs with any reasonable frequency of occurrence.
Yes, sorry to hear about your unfortune, (misfortune I mean) Nobody would like the clip to have bent so easily.... Seems so unlikely...!!
...But this gives me another reason not to get a Shuffle or Nano. They're too small to be usable now - including the nano... I'm going to go for a run soon and I'm confident my SonyEricsson (32MB [yes, that's only 32MB]) v600i is not going to bend as it sits/rubs around a bit in my shorts. Plus if I nearly collapse from a lung failure or two I might have enough strength to dial 911 and mutter a few words on where to find me.
How are people sitting down these days? Do they just fling themselves down on furniture? Or is it another case of obesity prevalence in America? I've put my nano in my change pocket for over a year now with no incidences and since the new shuffle is smaller, you'd think that there would be less room for bending. I could be wrong, but I would have to agree that this is another incident that can be attributed to operator error. If you are bending your body and the iPod is placed right where you bend, you might want to move it or protect it. This is technology, not a toy made from Mattel.
I don't understand how it bent in that direction. Did you have the clip facing the same direction as in the ad? If that's the case, it should've bent the other way.
.... and my nano does not give off that neon glow from its wheel
You've bent keys in your pocket? How does that happen? I've never seen or heard of that. It's certainly not happened to me in the fifteen years I've been carrying keys in my pocket. Keys are thicker, but they are longer too.
yes longer so easier to apply pressure and bend them, i have a stack of keys, the flat type, and maybe my jeans are a bit tight?? but thats only after lunch
could it be there is coin(s) in ur pocket? just a thought...
Fifthbullet
Nice illustrations. And it is possible that a coin lodged in the clip and caused the problem.
However, also picture the following. And since I don't have the time to draw them out, perhaps you could.
1. The user was wearing low-rise jeans. Thus the Shuffle wasn't sitting above the bend as per your illustration, but perhaps right in the middle of it.
2. Perhaps he wasn't wearing low-rise jeans, but he wore them low anyway. Same possibility.
3. The wearer just didn't sit down, but leaned forward, causing even more pressure on the clip as the angle decreased.
4. Compound the above recognizing that most jeans are worn very tight. Most people never use the watch pocket. Most people that put things in their watch pocket can't get them out again. Ask their spouses or mothers. And when they do get whatever they put in there, it is usually unrecognizable afterwards.
5. Compound the above picture using a 250 lb beer bellier stuffed in a size 32 crack-up-the-back levis, jamming a matchbook in his watch pocket and leaning over to tie his shoes.
I personally lean (no pun intended) toward the picture of man clipping his Shuffle into the watch pocket of a very tight fitting pair of jeans, which when he sat down put pressure on the the Shuffle in an upward direction. However, because of the tightness of the pocket, the Shuffle couldn't move in the direction in which it was being forced. And if he was like most of us, he compounded the scenario whenever he leaned forward.
And for those of you who can't abide with my postulation, put on your favorite jeans. While standing, stuff two fingers, three if you can, in you watch pocket and sit down, preferably quickly. Oh! And don't forget to lean forward. Better yet, stuff your fingers in someone else's pocket.
And for those of you who can't abide with my postulation, put on your favorite jeans. While standing, stuff two fingers, three if you can, in you watch pocket and sit down, preferably quickly. Oh! And don't forget to lean forward. Better yet, stuff your fingers in someone else's pocket.
I certainly can't "abide" by such a silly comparison unless you have micro-fingers. The comparison you try to make here is outright flawed because you aren't comparing objects of a similar size or shape.
.... and my nano does not give off that neon glow from its wheel
ROFLMAO!! Damn... I thought it would do that in the dark... and I was so looking to take my Nano to the next rave. Maybe I'll see the neon streaks if I drop acid or somethin'
I certainly can't "abide" by such a silly comparison unless you have micro-fingers. The comparison you try to make here is outright flawed because you aren't comparing objects of a similar size or shape.
He just wants you to stuff your fingers down your pants... Or someone elses pants. Awwww yeah.................
good, apple needs to learn to stop ripping the customer off. We all have fallen that apple is this hip, down to earth guys, but they are just as bad as microsoft. I rather buy some cheapy china made mp3 player that does the same crap as a ipod of like half the price like them on http://www.mp4nation.com or a archos, now thats a multimedia machine.
Comments
If it really bends that easily then the new shuffle is f**ed up, it should be designed to handle every day usage which includes human movement. No one should defend apple on this. Cell phones and all kinds of other small gadgets are meant to take regular abuse so why shouldn't an ipod?
amen.
i always drop my cell phones and they look and work great.
ipods are just too delicate and need to withstand more regular abuse. it's not stupidity or obesity. it's a design flaw. it's just fragile.
and the dock... apple should have included a mini usb port. now his ipod is useless unless he fixes the clip or he gets a new synching solution.
If you carried a knife, pen, pencil, whatever in your pocket, something might go wrong if you sit down!!!!
The other objects you mentioned are long and thin. A tiny, nearly square object shouldn't have the same level of forces. I would understand the comparison if you were referring to the 1st Gen shuffle.
i'm skinny and i know that when i sit with my keys in my front jeans pocket...they bend too
You've bent keys in your pocket? How does that happen? I've never seen or heard of that. It's certainly not happened to me in the fifteen years I've been carrying keys in my pocket. Keys are thicker, but they are longer too.
I'll grant that this may be staged thing though, given where it was bent, if you try to force the clip open too far, that's probably where it would bend. I'm trying to figure out how I can sit down with a clipped shuffle and have the clip open too far.
This is a bad design if that happens when someone sits down. And if that does happen then Apple should have NEVER put someone wearing it like that in their advertising campaign. Just shows that not enough quality control went into the product before it's release. If you think that everyone is going to treat their ipod like it is an egg, then you are un-realistic. Sh*t like this is just going to give apple products a bad name... something they don't need with Microsoft looking over their shoulder in the portable digital music player department.
2G iPod shuffle drawing
Based on these figures (dimensions) and my calculations (sigma = 20 ksi) it takes about 3 pounds of force applied normal to the end of the clip to initiate (yield) bending as shown by the affected shuffle owner (assuming the clip bottoms out in it's maximum opened position via bearing against the top of the shuffle body). That would be a uniform force across the entire width, if non-uniform, the force necessary to initiate bending would be less than this!
THREE POUNDS!
Apple made the clip very thin (~0.75 mm), yet have two huge "snaggleteeth" of aluminum, that could have been used more effectively to stiffen the clip plate, regardless, a design that creates an unintended mechanical advantage, allows the plate to "bottom out" is a very poor design, IMHO.
Sure, aluminum bends. But isn't it a bit of a design flaw that it's possible to do that under normal usage conditions (I'm very cautious with my stuff and this was the first time it fell down)? A possible solution would've been to allow the clip to open more, so that the hinge 'absorbs' the energy which would otherwise be put in bending the clip.
And to reply to others, I wasn't wearing a belt and I'm certainly not overweight (and don't live in the USA either).
Besides that, any suggestions in repairing it nicely? The hinge seems to be very fragile as well and applying any pressure to the whole shuffle, e.g. by using a vice, will make the round part (where the headphone jack is located) lose its shape.
I firmly believe it is a) due to poor design, b) a poor example of use (in the ad), and c) poor judgement by the user.
I ran my own company manufacturing infra-red heat processing systems for industrial processes, before retiring, and always used aluminium in various forms - for reflectors or various other heat dissipation uses.
Aluminium is a good dissipator of heat and is the reason it is used in heat sinks for cooling electronics or components, but it has poor mechanical strength. If the body had instead been made of steel, it would have to have been made considerably larger to achieve sufficient cooling efficiency. Alternatively, if the clip itself had been made of steel, to have greater resistance to bending, it is not a good idea to use dissimilar metals together in this way.
Although aluminium has very poor structural strength, there are a number of very hard grades that could be used instead. I believe the simplest solution is for Apple to increase the thickness of the clip, combined with the hardest possible aluminium specification, with possibly a lateral indentation for extra stiffness. Increasing the thickness of the clip would not really be detrimental to the appearance of the Shuffle.
As for clipping the Shuffle to the change pocket as shown in the example by Apple, to most people with manufacturing experience, common sense would tell you this is a bad idea, as the combination of the weak aluminium and the mechanical forces when bending or sitting down are likely to cause damage. On the other hand, many users would not think of the possible consequences when they see an advert by Apple showing it worn this way. Finally, although it may be possible to straighten the clip to a certain extent, it is unlikely to become completely staright again, and the straightening forces are likely to create permanent stress cracking in the bend area. IMHO I believe Apple should redesign it and replace your Shuffle and anyone else's which gets bent, it's definitely a design fault.
I firmly believe it is a) due to poor design, b) a poor example of use (in the ad), and c) poor judgement by the user.
I ran my own company manufacturing infra-red heat processing systems for industrial processes, before retiring, and always used aluminium in various forms - for reflectors or various other heat dissipation uses.
Aluminium is a good dissipator of heat and is the reason it is used in heat sinks for cooling electronics or components, but it has poor mechanical strength. If the body had instead been made of steel, it would have to have been made considerably larger to achieve sufficient cooling efficiency. Alternatively, if the clip itself had been made of steel, to have greater resistance to bending, it is not a good idea to use dissimilar metals together in this way.
Although aluminium has very poor structural strength, there are a number of very hard grades that could be used instead. I believe the simplest solution is for Apple to increase the thickness of the clip, combined with the hardest possible aluminium specification, with possibly a lateral indentation for extra stiffness. Increasing the thickness of the clip would not really be detrimental to the appearance of the Shuffle.
As for clipping the Shuffle to the change pocket as shown in the example by Apple, to most people with manufacturing experience, common sense would tell you this is a bad idea, as the combination of the weak aluminium and the mechanical forces when bending or sitting down are likely to cause damage. On the other hand, many users would not think of the possible consequences when they see an advert by Apple showing it worn this way. Finally, although it may be possible to straighten the clip to a certain extent, it is unlikely to become completely staright again, and the straightening forces are likely to create permanent stress cracking in the bend area. IMHO I believe Apple should redesign it and replace your Shuffle and anyone else's which gets bent, it's definitely a design fault.
I don't think so!
6000 series (35 ksi yield), 7000 series (60-100 ksi yield).
7000 series (typically 80 ksi yield) is widely used in the aircraft industry, 5000 series (35 ksi yield) is widely used in the marine industry, any application where weight AND cost are important, in those situations it's tough to beat aluminum! Not by high strength titanium, not by high strength SS, and not by high strength FRP. Strength per dollar and strength per pound. It's important to remember that it's the specific strength (strength divided by density) and specific modulus (modulus divided by density) of any material, if weight is a central issue. After that it's a matter of cost.
Stress cracking isn't an issue provided it hasn't exceeded it's plastic limit. I'm guessing Apple used something similar to 3003 aluminum (but if it was made in China, who knows), that's usually cheaper than other aluminums.
A redesign would seem to be in order, if this situation occurs with any reasonable frequency of occurrence.
...But this gives me another reason not to get a Shuffle or Nano. They're too small to be usable now - including the nano... I'm going to go for a run soon and I'm confident my SonyEricsson (32MB [yes, that's only 32MB]) v600i is not going to bend as it sits/rubs around a bit in my shorts. Plus if I nearly collapse from a lung failure or two I might have enough strength to dial 911 and mutter a few words on where to find me.
I don't understand how it bent in that direction. Did you have the clip facing the same direction as in the ad? If that's the case, it should've bent the other way.
.... and my nano does not give off that neon glow from its wheel
You've bent keys in your pocket? How does that happen? I've never seen or heard of that. It's certainly not happened to me in the fifteen years I've been carrying keys in my pocket. Keys are thicker, but they are longer too.
yes longer so easier to apply pressure and bend them, i have a stack of keys, the flat type, and maybe my jeans are a bit tight?? but thats only after lunch
could it be there is coin(s) in ur pocket? just a thought...
Fifthbullet
Nice illustrations. And it is possible that a coin lodged in the clip and caused the problem.
However, also picture the following. And since I don't have the time to draw them out, perhaps you could.
1. The user was wearing low-rise jeans. Thus the Shuffle wasn't sitting above the bend as per your illustration, but perhaps right in the middle of it.
2. Perhaps he wasn't wearing low-rise jeans, but he wore them low anyway. Same possibility.
3. The wearer just didn't sit down, but leaned forward, causing even more pressure on the clip as the angle decreased.
4. Compound the above recognizing that most jeans are worn very tight. Most people never use the watch pocket. Most people that put things in their watch pocket can't get them out again. Ask their spouses or mothers. And when they do get whatever they put in there, it is usually unrecognizable afterwards.
5. Compound the above picture using a 250 lb beer bellier stuffed in a size 32 crack-up-the-back levis, jamming a matchbook in his watch pocket and leaning over to tie his shoes.
I personally lean (no pun intended) toward the picture of man clipping his Shuffle into the watch pocket of a very tight fitting pair of jeans, which when he sat down put pressure on the the Shuffle in an upward direction. However, because of the tightness of the pocket, the Shuffle couldn't move in the direction in which it was being forced. And if he was like most of us, he compounded the scenario whenever he leaned forward.
And for those of you who can't abide with my postulation, put on your favorite jeans. While standing, stuff two fingers, three if you can, in you watch pocket and sit down, preferably quickly. Oh! And don't forget to lean forward. Better yet, stuff your fingers in someone else's pocket.
Fifthbullet
And for those of you who can't abide with my postulation, put on your favorite jeans. While standing, stuff two fingers, three if you can, in you watch pocket and sit down, preferably quickly. Oh! And don't forget to lean forward. Better yet, stuff your fingers in someone else's pocket.
I certainly can't "abide" by such a silly comparison unless you have micro-fingers. The comparison you try to make here is outright flawed because you aren't comparing objects of a similar size or shape.
.... and my nano does not give off that neon glow from its wheel
I certainly can't "abide" by such a silly comparison unless you have micro-fingers. The comparison you try to make here is outright flawed because you aren't comparing objects of a similar size or shape.
He just wants you to stuff your fingers down your pants... Or someone elses pants. Awwww yeah.................
Hope iPods go iBust.