Then they should have left them out. Unless they make one that reliably handles 8cm media and has a manual eject, I'm never gonna feel 100% comforatble with that thing.
Matsu: You Go Girl... Guy... Whatever... You Drool! um... Rule!
By Eman: [quote] i don't see how the introduction of a MORE EXPENSIVE 12" (arguably the most expensive component) laptop makes the iBook look overpriced <hr></blockquote>
I meant just that. When it is such a small amount between the two differnt platforms (ibook, ittybook) for such a huge amount of changes, there is a discrepancy in pricing. Since I am loathe to say anything as, well, stupid as "The new 12 inch isn't expensive enough" (Gosh even typing it makes me feel queasy) the only thing which must be slightly out of whack is the price of the ibook.
It is too high. If it were $300 less, then the choice would not be, "do I spend more for that gorgeous hunk of hardware?", but "I will get the ibook because that is all I need" Let's face it, the ibook will come down in price over the next few months. The production cost is probably two thirds (if not less) than what it started at when it was first introduced in this form factor, and it has been dropping in price slowly but steadily.
The new 12 inch Powerbook, on the other hand, will probably not drop in price for half a year.
You seem to have conveniently forgotten about Airport Extreme, the G4, the classier case and better keyboard, as well as a small but real difference in size and weight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Airport Extreme is not built-in just the antennas--the same antennas that are used in Regular Airport. The different connector is basically the same and marginally more expensive. The thing that should cost more is the card, not the stuff that gets bundled with the lappy.
The G4 does not have the expensive L3 cache, and because of this is crippled... again marginally more expensive then a G3.
The rest is, as I said design which may be expensive, but the fact of the matter is, these costs are a one-time thing and pricing of these books WILL come down significantly.
Curiously, I think the iBook is as low as it can acceptably go (for retail anyway). Apple should be able to drop it to 899 for regular EDU customers and 799 for institutional purchases.
i guess i just see the iBook combo (at the EDU store) for 1405 with 256 ram, 40 gig HD and airport card and the PB12" combo is 1588 with the same spec (and you can get 60 gig HD for 45 bucks more).....who wouldn't want a G4 and newer enclosure and all the other things (bluetooth, ability of airport extreme etc) for only a hundred eighty bucks more....so i expect the iBook to drop and the PB book to stay the same price for a while...g
Every one should be aware that the 12" PB I used was very hot, as I noted in another thread. This unit was simply sitting idle at the desktop, but there was a lot of heat on my wrists as I typed. I'd hate to feel it when the CD drive is being heavily used. If I were in the market for an iBook or PB, this would definitely influence my decision. Please try before you buy.
It's ridiculous that the 12" PowerBook doesn't have a PC Card slot. Doubly ridiculous because FW2 is coming out, and this thing is obsolete by design.
This thing really is a gussed-up iBook with a premium price tag. If this thing is Pro-level kit, it should have Pro-level features (which in Apple-Bizarro World is expansion slots).
If it's supposed to be consumer/edu stuff, save the PowerBook brandname and pricing and call it the iBook G4.
" Like the iBook, however, the left side of the notebook is significantly warmer. The right side of the computer houses the battery and optical drive, and the left side and center of the unit house the hotter components (hard drive, AirPort Extreme card, and electronics). The machine generates a considerable amount of heat, and the backlit, frosted Lucite counters at the Apple booth certainly don't help the machine stay cool. On the show floor, the aluminum notebook was not noticeably cooler or warmer than an iBook.
Performance isn't exactly stellar, but the machine is very usable. The G4 PowerBook feels only a bit snappier than a G3-based iBook in Finder navigation, but it earns a respectable Xbench 1.0b3 score of 89, scoring significantly higher than the G3-based machine in processor and memory tests. (Conversely, the iBook at 800 megahertz earns a score of only 55.) The similar performance can be attributed to not having L3 cache found in 15- and 17-inch models."
So the iBook provides about half the performance (61% the performance) of the PB while not feeling much slower. That makes sense, doesn't it? QE now takes care of most of the "snappiness" concerns, but when you rip an MP3 or copy a big file, or scroll a long list of iPhoto's, or use some iMovie/iDVD effects, you're going to notice, as you will any time you deal with a large file 133 vs 100Mhz bus. There's little doubt to me that the little PB will deal with more demanding applications significantly better than the current iBook.
Darn it you guys, I almost had convinced myself to settle for an ibook and you guys go and talk about how great the pb12 is and I want one again!!! Damn, damn damn.
By the way, if the ibooks don't support full monitor spanning, what size monitors do they support as mirroring? Someone said the Nvidia 420 pb12" is up to 1600X1280, how about the Radeon 7500 ibook? Anyone know or know where to look? (it's not on the Apple site)
I don't need tremendous performance, just lots of screen real estate and a computer price tag low enough to also buy a big ugly( ) CRT to give that screen real estate. There's not much point however if the graphics cards in the ibook don't support a good resolution.
Out of the box, iBook mirroring is only up to 1024x768. If you enter in one of the open firmware edits that's online, you can enable spanning on your iBook.
Thanks MCQ, that's truly an awesome hack! True spanning will boost your screen real estate - effectively doubling monitor size! I will check it out immediately. . . also I hope that the 1024 X 786 max figure is an artificial limit also. . . . but that might push it. Still, this is great news for me!
<strong>It's ridiculous that the 12" PowerBook doesn't have a PC Card slot. Doubly ridiculous because FW2 is coming out, and this thing is obsolete by design.
This thing really is a gussed-up iBook with a premium price tag. If this thing is Pro-level kit, it should have Pro-level features (which in Apple-Bizarro World is expansion slots).
If it's supposed to be consumer/edu stuff, save the PowerBook brandname and pricing and call it the iBook G4.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Comments
Be sure to post a review when you get that bad boy!
By the way, I'm very jealous!
By Eman: [quote] i don't see how the introduction of a MORE EXPENSIVE 12" (arguably the most expensive component) laptop makes the iBook look overpriced <hr></blockquote>
I meant just that. When it is such a small amount between the two differnt platforms (ibook, ittybook) for such a huge amount of changes, there is a discrepancy in pricing. Since I am loathe to say anything as, well, stupid as "The new 12 inch isn't expensive enough" (Gosh even typing it makes me feel queasy) the only thing which must be slightly out of whack is the price of the ibook.
It is too high. If it were $300 less, then the choice would not be, "do I spend more for that gorgeous hunk of hardware?", but "I will get the ibook because that is all I need" Let's face it, the ibook will come down in price over the next few months. The production cost is probably two thirds (if not less) than what it started at when it was first introduced in this form factor, and it has been dropping in price slowly but steadily.
The new 12 inch Powerbook, on the other hand, will probably not drop in price for half a year.
<strong>
You seem to have conveniently forgotten about Airport Extreme, the G4, the classier case and better keyboard, as well as a small but real difference in size and weight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Airport Extreme is not built-in just the antennas--the same antennas that are used in Regular Airport. The different connector is basically the same and marginally more expensive. The thing that should cost more is the card, not the stuff that gets bundled with the lappy.
The G4 does not have the expensive L3 cache, and because of this is crippled... again marginally more expensive then a G3.
The rest is, as I said design which may be expensive, but the fact of the matter is, these costs are a one-time thing and pricing of these books WILL come down significantly.
Curiously, I think the iBook is as low as it can acceptably go (for retail anyway). Apple should be able to drop it to 899 for regular EDU customers and 799 for institutional purchases.
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</p>
<strong>so i expect the iBook to drop and the PB book to stay the same price for a while...g
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: thegelding ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
oh yeah i totally agree that the EDU prices of the iBooks should come down... I mean freakin $50? what's the point?
also note that i meant low end iBook. I can see the price of the combo going to $1199.
This thing really is a gussed-up iBook with a premium price tag. If this thing is Pro-level kit, it should have Pro-level features (which in Apple-Bizarro World is expansion slots).
If it's supposed to be consumer/edu stuff, save the PowerBook brandname and pricing and call it the iBook G4.
From MacNN review,
" Like the iBook, however, the left side of the notebook is significantly warmer. The right side of the computer houses the battery and optical drive, and the left side and center of the unit house the hotter components (hard drive, AirPort Extreme card, and electronics). The machine generates a considerable amount of heat, and the backlit, frosted Lucite counters at the Apple booth certainly don't help the machine stay cool. On the show floor, the aluminum notebook was not noticeably cooler or warmer than an iBook.
Performance isn't exactly stellar, but the machine is very usable. The G4 PowerBook feels only a bit snappier than a G3-based iBook in Finder navigation, but it earns a respectable Xbench 1.0b3 score of 89, scoring significantly higher than the G3-based machine in processor and memory tests. (Conversely, the iBook at 800 megahertz earns a score of only 55.) The similar performance can be attributed to not having L3 cache found in 15- and 17-inch models."
So the iBook provides about half the performance (61% the performance) of the PB while not feeling much slower. That makes sense, doesn't it? QE now takes care of most of the "snappiness" concerns, but when you rip an MP3 or copy a big file, or scroll a long list of iPhoto's, or use some iMovie/iDVD effects, you're going to notice, as you will any time you deal with a large file 133 vs 100Mhz bus. There's little doubt to me that the little PB will deal with more demanding applications significantly better than the current iBook.
[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
By the way, if the ibooks don't support full monitor spanning, what size monitors do they support as mirroring? Someone said the Nvidia 420 pb12" is up to 1600X1280, how about the Radeon 7500 ibook? Anyone know or know where to look? (it's not on the Apple site)
I don't need tremendous performance, just lots of screen real estate and a computer price tag low enough to also buy a big ugly(
<a href="http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html"; target="_blank">http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html</a>;
FYI: The monitor spanning hack also works to remove the resolution limit. My problem is solved! Yay!
<strong>Woops, I could have sworn it had FW800.
Kind of odd that only one model has it. Oh well, I guess that will be changing in a few weeks!</strong><hr></blockquote>
You got that right, Flounder. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>It's ridiculous that the 12" PowerBook doesn't have a PC Card slot. Doubly ridiculous because FW2 is coming out, and this thing is obsolete by design.
This thing really is a gussed-up iBook with a premium price tag. If this thing is Pro-level kit, it should have Pro-level features (which in Apple-Bizarro World is expansion slots).
If it's supposed to be consumer/edu stuff, save the PowerBook brandname and pricing and call it the iBook G4.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Right On Tractor Man!