What is an American?

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
Before going any further, please read these two clips:



http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/21/pas....ap/index.html



http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/20/nav...lag/index.html



These acts are beyond what King George is making happen from the WH. These are our neighbors refusing to live with us.



This is really getting out of hand. What is an American?



Adding a new one:



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/...eding_protests
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 63
    auroraaurora Posts: 1,142member
    Why does man hold onto these primitive religions? what is missing in man that he has such a need for traditions even ancient,mindless ones and then wants to spread them. Religion is a joke, a joke on its followers. Its all about mind control & $$$.

    If these Muslims had just obeyed the captain things would have gone better, now which direction is Mecca? Primitives practicing the primitive, hocus pocus and my god is greater then your god crap. Religions suck but after 911 you see six muhammods standing on a plane praying you dont know if they are just practicing their primitive thinking or praying before an attack. Religions should be either banned or taxed. Its the pushing of ancient primitive thinking and nothing more.
  • Reply 2 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    It's sort of funny- draw a picture of muhammad and you insult every single muslim on the planet and incite riots and garner death threats- a complete insult to their culture.



    Muslims praying on an airplane is pretty much the same affront to American culture due to 9/11. But that is fine as long as muslims can practice their religion despite the reasoning behind the typical American's objection to them doing it on an airplane of all places.



    If muslims expect sensitivity they should realize it's a two way street. I personally don't care who has what religion, but I would take exception to a group of muslim men praying on an airplane.
  • Reply 3 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRR


    It's sort of funny- draw a picture of muhammad and you insult every single muslim on the planet and incite riots and garner death threats- a complete insult to their culture.



    Muslims praying on an airplane is pretty much the same affront to American culture due to 9/11. But that is fine as long as muslims can practice their religion despite the reasoning behind the typical American's objection to them doing it on an airplane of all places.



    If muslims expect sensitivity they should realize it's a two way street. I personally don't care who has what religion, but I would take exception to a group of muslim men praying on an airplane.



    What the FUCK?



    It's an affront to pray on a plane in the Land of the Free?
  • Reply 4 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah


    What the FUCK?



    It's an affront to pray on a plane in the Land of the Free?



    It's an affront to excercise free speech when speaking about muhammad?
  • Reply 5 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRR


    It's sort of funny- draw a picture of muhammad and you insult every single muslim on the planet and incite riots and garner death threats- a complete insult to their culture.



    Muslims praying on an airplane is pretty much the same affront to American culture due to 9/11. But that is fine as long as muslims can practice their religion despite the reasoning behind the typical American's objection to them doing it on an airplane of all places.



    If muslims expect sensitivity they should realize it's a two way street. I personally don't care who has what religion, but I would take exception to a group of muslim men praying on an airplane.



    If you're a serious Muslim, you need to pray about five times a day at specific times. If you happen to be on a plane, that's where you do it.
  • Reply 6 of 63
    auroraaurora Posts: 1,142member
    There isnt no land of the free, just thought I would tell you . Well it looks like they just murdered another lebanese minister and you wonder why Americans are worried to see a group praying on a plane? These are fanatics, you have to be to let a religion run your life,tell you how to think. Im scared of any fanatic, only the Muslim ones seem more military more capable of killing in the name of Allah for the faith.
  • Reply 7 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gregmightdothat


    If you're a serious Muslim, you need to pray about five times a day at specific times. If you happen to be on a plane, that's where you do it.



    I understand that any religious person needs to pray, or follow whatever doctrine, rules- what have you- no matter what the religion.... but honestly, IMHO- it is obvious why a group of men getting up and praying on an airplane is not welcomed by western culture in this day and age.



    It has nothing to do with squashing someone's religion, or race, or rights.
  • Reply 8 of 63
    It's unfortunate, but you have to put it in perspective. In WWII we detained a lot of Japanese Americans. Most of them left Japan for a reason, but some of them were certainly spies. We are still in the middle of an ugly situation with Islamic terrorism. If the Islamic American community wants more respect, they should stand up against terrorism in a major way. But really, they haven't. There's not really very much indication to me that most traditional muslims living in the western world have any desire to accept the western culture at all. Since they don't seem to want to live in freedom, I say, don't give it to them.
  • Reply 9 of 63
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRR


    it is obvious why a group of men getting up and praying on an airplane is not welcomed by western culture in this day and age.



    Yes?



    Why?



    Let me guess: because you don't care to distinguish between mere Muslisms and terroristic fundamentalist Muslisms?



    Quote:

    It has nothing to do with squashing someone's religion, or race, or rights.



    Really.
  • Reply 10 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker


    Yes?



    Why?



    Let me guess: because you don't care to distinguish between mere Muslisms and terroristic fundamentalist Muslisms?







    Really.



    It's not that one CAN care to distinguish. Are you a mind reader?
  • Reply 11 of 63
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacRR


    It's not that one CAN care to distinguish. Are you a mind reader?



    So wait, you're assuming Muslims to have terrorist/fundamentalist tendencies, because, in your opinion, it's likely?



    What other assumptions do you make about people?
  • Reply 12 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    No- not at all.



    You are assuming that I assume .



    ASS u & me.



    But then again- it's ok to call for a "head" tax and have country wide riots when someone draws a cartoon.



    I am saying both sides of that equation are FUBAR due to recent current events. Muslims by and large condemn and riot over someone's speech (the pope- or a danish cartoon or a german theatrical presentation- oh wait, that got shit canned due to the fear of muslim reprisal before it even started)- and if they want that kind of sensitivity over a drawing- then how can they not see that in Western culture a group of muslim men praying on an airplane immediately and unfortunately brings on 9/11 connotations?
  • Reply 13 of 63
    auroraaurora Posts: 1,142member
    Extremists are extremists, a fanatical extreme religion no matter how you look at it. allways looking for a reason to kill others it seems to me, unless you tote the religious line. F that.
  • Reply 14 of 63
    Wait. Is someone here honestly suggesting that Muslims cannot pray in nominally public spaces?



    Hell we should just ban all outward signs of religion. No crosses, no head coverings. No prayer anywhere where someone else could possibly see you.
  • Reply 15 of 63
    auroraaurora Posts: 1,142member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar


    Wait. Is someone here honestly suggesting that Muslims cannot pray in nominally public spaces?



    Hell we should just ban all outward signs of religion. No crosses, no head coverings. No prayer anywhere where someone else could possibly see you.



    No I would say just tax them at the same rate as any business, afterall thats what they all are. That would slow them all down.
  • Reply 16 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    Not at all.



    An airplane is not a public space.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar


    Wait. Is someone here honestly suggesting that Muslims cannot pray in nominally public spaces?



    Hell we should just ban all outward signs of religion. No crosses, no head coverings. No prayer anywhere where someone else could possibly see you.



  • Reply 17 of 63
    Ok. Let me get this right. From the first article:



    "Shahin said Tuesday that three members of the group prayed in the terminal before the six boarded the plane."



    They didn't pray on the plane? What's the problem? If these were born-agains praying before they boarded the plane would there have been a problem? Probably not. So leave the Muslims be. They did what I think was right (praying before boarding - but they may have done so because of when they pray to Mecca).



    As far as the law passed about foreign flag waving, if the US flag must fly with it then that's it. BUT since this is against the 1st Amendment it may have other implications. I see it this way, you are an American citizen but have pride in your roots then respect the law as it is. When it comes time to vote, make your decision clear to them why you voted against the ones who enacted this law. They'll get the message.



    What is an American? Quickly becoming the most isolated, insular, ignorant, paranoid, sensitive and stupidest nation on the planet.
  • Reply 18 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman


    As far as the law passed about foreign flag waving, if the US flag must fly with it...



    ...and above it.
  • Reply 19 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    My bad on them being on the airplane- but the substance of my argument- I'll stand behind it.

    It really is a shame that in an airport one can't be free, but subject themselves to prison like conditions. It sucks that old ladies are searched and that some unlucky people get barred from flights outright due to being on some list somewhere- Muslim or no. Those people should be just as pissed at the extremists as these Muslims who were brought off the plane.

    Security is not a grey area that you can really fuk around with. I used to think exactly like that- America is really going down the drain- people aren't free to do their own thing. Fear is taking over. I am not one to sit around and say yea- we should racially profile because obviously only Muslim men are going to blow up an airplane, building, etc... Because that is not real security. It's disregarding the fact that anyone can harm another person, for whatever the reason. An airplane is unique because once it takes off, that's it. It is its own microcosm. If there was a bomb- oh well. If there are terrorists, oh well. Good luck passengers! Hope you brought your game face!

    And since security has to happen on the ground, there can't be any mistakes. For Muslim men to pray in a terminal, board and split up- especially with one going to first class and the others sitting separately in coach- it starts fitting an uncomfortable pattern. Is that their fault? Probably not. Maybe the flight was totally booked... maybe they sat the blind guy in first class (they don't say), and prayer was exactly at that time- 6:23 CST for that day and the plane took off at 6:30 so it probably looked like they prayed and right away boarded (perhaps in a hurry since it was only 7 minutes to take off when they started)- it all added up to be nothing, or maybe something. So if there is a chance, do you not have to make sure? In absolute cases of life and limb- shouldn't one err on the side of caution?

    Because if they don't, and something does happen, the stakes are much higher than simply a plane load of people dying and even that in of itself is unacceptable. The stakes are utterly incalculable.

    Now all this outrage on these Muslims' part is fine- I'd be pissed too. But how can they be surprised? I work with an Indian guy- He's not even fukn Muslim. How is that for insulting? He gets treated like one here and there- especially in Texas where his brother lives, but he understands why they operate in airports and doesn't get completely bent out of shape.

    To make my point that it seems incredible that these guys express outrage and no doubt lawsuits may be filed, but the Muslim community in great numbers will do violent acts such as riot, threaten "head" taxes, encourage violence specifically towards westerners over a cartoon of their religious icon, or even speaking badly of their religion.

    To me it looks like there's plenty of isolation, insolence, ignorance, paranoia, over -sensitivity, and stupidity to go around. And be that as it may, you can't look at a security issue in an airport and trivialize it down to freedom of religion. All things considered. Besides it's not just an American approach to airport security- it's a Westerner approach. Europe and Israel, and probably other countries all handle airport security in the same way. No tolerance for even a possibility.



    Is that right? No, but the world's not right, chum.









    Quote:
    Originally Posted by @_@ Artman


    Ok. Let me get this right. From the first article:



    "Shahin said Tuesday that three members of the group prayed in the terminal before the six boarded the plane."



    They didn't pray on the plane? What's the problem? If these were born-agains praying before they boarded the plane would there have been a problem? Probably not. So leave the Muslims be. They did what I think was right (praying before boarding - but they may have done so because of when they pray to Mecca).



    What is an American? Quickly becoming the most isolated, insular, ignorant, paranoid, sensitive and stupidest nation on the planet.



  • Reply 20 of 63
    macrrmacrr Posts: 488member
    Not for nothing- but this actually should be far more outrage producing when it comes to getting kicked off an airplane:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/...eding_protests





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