I don't see any data or evidence to support this. What I suspect happened was the two technologies enjoyed a great wave simultaneously and they both happened to share the same emerging technology.
The data is very clear in Japan where DVD adoption rate was slower than the US and Europe. Consoles dominated so a large percentage of DVD viewers were doing so on consoles. In the US, Sony's statements on the PS2 impact to the DVD market is overstated. One could argue the converse that the DVD player built into the PS2 helped its adoption rather than the other way around. Still a competitive advantage that helped both.
I don't doubt that Sony and BluRay will win in Japan. At least for the short run.
Remote play to the PSP looks cool. Amusingly the demo of the PS3 web browser uses a Mac keyboard and mouse. They also showed the PS3 playing video from the iPod.
You are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread. The relevance of gaming systems has already been discussed in this forum, and I think it is safe to say that the PS3 and xBox 360 are very relevant in terms of Blu Ray and HD-DVD. Blu Ray is used by the PS3 built in, and HD-DVD is used by the xBox as an add-on, and potentially (although this is just speculation) the standard option).
A single game has no bearing at all on the format war. Especially since not HD-DVD is most assuredly not standard on the 360 and is unlikely to become standard. Game developers will not issue games on both HD-DVD and DVD and cannot forsake the installed base of DVD-equipped 360s, especially since they cannot all be retrofitted with the newer drives. Remember, the HD-DVD add-on is strictly for movies. Like it or not, all 360 games are stuck on DVDs, hence the irrelevance of the sales of one game in this thread. It's quite clear from Elixir's devil emoticon that he wrote it strictly as a troll, and if you yourself had been paying attention to this thread, you'd know that he does nothing except bash Sony and praise Microsoft.
Try to read more before making ignorant, presumptuous statements like "you are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread." I've been participating in this thread on and off since it was started, 40-odd pages of postings ago.
A single game has no bearing at all on the format war. Especially since not HD-DVD is most assuredly not standard on the 360 and is unlikely to become standard. Game developers will not issue games on both HD-DVD and DVD and cannot forsake the installed base of DVD-equipped 360s, especially since they cannot all be retrofitted with the newer drives. Remember, the HD-DVD add-on is strictly for movies. Like it or not, all 360 games are stuck on DVDs, hence the irrelevance of the sales of one game in this thread. It's quite clear from Elixir's devil emoticon that he wrote it strictly as a troll, and if you yourself had been paying attention to this thread, you'd know that he does nothing except bash Sony and praise Microsoft.
Try to read more before making ignorant, presumptuous statements like "you are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread." I've been participating in this thread on and off since it was started, 40-odd pages of postings ago.
No need to get defensive. Fortunately it's not up to you to decide what is on topic or off topic. This is a discussion because people have different values, ideas, etc. The relevance of gaming systems to the DVD market is a very viable discussion for this thread, and with that comes the complexities of the gaming systems market: specific games which may or may not define dominance of one gaming system over another in the market and thus one DVD format over the other. If you are not interested in how gaming systems relate to the DVD market, that is perfectly fine by me. Close one eye, and if you still THINK you can see the full picture... hey, thats your problem, not mine.
if you want to believe that the PS2 DID NOT have an effect on DVD sales then thats fine, keep your blinkered view.. but i offer the following.
i remember reading around 2000 when the PS2 was launched in the UK that AT LAUNCH in Japan Japanese gamers were buying games AND DVDS and the sales figures for DVDs in japan went up something like 40% from the previous month AND STAYED THERE.
call it coincidence if you want, i wont.
also i remember that sagas dreamcast was NOT selling as fast or had as much hype round it at that time and DIDNT have DVD playback, so what did sega do to try and offset the arrival of the PS2?
something that i see microsoft doing
seaga added a full sized DVD player bundled with the dreamcast for the same £300 price, and that was a BIG discount at the time as DVD players were £180 for the cheapest, so this REALLY was a bargin and likely cost sega some money to have to fund.
it offered "mom & pop" the chance to have the dvd player in the other room and little joan or jonny to have the dreamcast in their room.
did it work?
no.
if you dont believe me then fine, i offer no links to this info because i couldnt be bothered arguing and im sure a little googling or wiki skills from someone else will back me up.
oh yeah and the PS2 didnt launch until MARCH then either, but people still bought in their droves, AND used it as a DVD player, as i used mine for the last 5 years... i only recently moved over to a dvd recorder and use that as it has component out, and only recently do i have a TV that can accept that.
at the moment i WONT be buying a PS3 at launch, i WAS going to buy a Wii, but between now and march, i may swing back to a PS3 on launch again... but its good having the chance to see how things pan out in the rest of the world, to see what blu-ray sales will or wont be.
it all depends on what apple goodness is released in Jan in general peoples wallets are only so deep.
meanwhile im getting to see the imperfections in DVD at 50" (yuk)
at the moment i WONT be buying a PS3 at launch, i WAS going to buy a Wii, but between now and march, i may swing back to a PS3 on launch again... but its good having the chance to see how things pan out in the rest of the world, to see what blu-ray sales will or wont be.
it all depends on what apple goodness is released in Jan in general peoples wallets are only so deep.
meanwhile im getting to see the imperfections in DVD at 50" (yuk)
For those who didn't notice, don't make a stupid comment saying they have already launched, he's from N. Ireland, and no they haven't already launched there.
No need to get defensive. Fortunately it's not up to you to decide what is on topic or off topic. This is a discussion because people have different values, ideas, etc. The relevance of gaming systems to the DVD market is a very viable discussion for this thread, and with that comes the complexities of the gaming systems market: specific games which may or may not define dominance of one gaming system over another in the market and thus one DVD format over the other. If you are not interested in how gaming systems relate to the DVD market, that is perfectly fine by me. Close one eye, and if you still THINK you can see the full picture... hey, thats your problem, not mine.
Your argument is persuasive because the type was both bolded and colored for emphasis.
Your argument is persuasive because the type was both bolded and colored for emphasis.
I couldn't tell if that was sarcastic or not...
The point of bold + color change was to get it noticed. I had already said that many times prior, and I was having to repeat myself because different people hadn't read my prior posts, making arguments that the PS3/xBox was off topic.
Omg! You guys need to know something: PS3 and the xBox are SO far off topic, that they are your momma!
Seriously, though: I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but what I want to know is which format (if any) is a win for the consumer. I find my DVDs break all the time and like to back them up. What are the DRM in the two formats and what is the disk like? One scratch and it's "good game"?
Omg! You guys need to know something: PS3 and the xBox are SO far off topic, that they are your momma!
Seriously, though: I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but what I want to know is which format (if any) is a win for the consumer. I find my DVDs break all the time and like to back them up. What are the DRM in the two formats and what is the disk like? One scratch and it's "good game"?
Whatever format wins the war is the one that is better for consumers.
That said, the Blu-Ray holds far more space and has better scratch resistance. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce right now, but both prices will come down in the long term.
The DRM is the same. It's looking like HDCP (the big evil one everyone hates) isn't going to happen, because any movie that incorporates it is going to see stagnant sales similar to copy protected CDs.
Omg! You guys need to know something: PS3 and the xBox are SO far off topic, that they are your momma!
Seriously, though: I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but what I want to know is which format (if any) is a win for the consumer. I find my DVDs break all the time and like to back them up. What are the DRM in the two formats and what is the disk like? One scratch and it's "good game"?
Both formats support Managed Copy. You will be able to make a copy to a hard disc for perhaps a small fee. This copy should be streamable on a home network. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are not off topic because both have support for Blu-ray or HD DVD. In fact I have a friend who just bought a 42" LCD and got a free Xbox 360. I told her about the HD DVD add on and she was very interested. I'm going to help her setup the screen this weekend.
In fact I have a friend who just bought a 42" LCD and got a free Xbox 360. I told her about the HD DVD add on and she was very interested. I'm going to help her setup the screen this weekend.
Right now, the Xbox 360 looks like the better gaming system to compliment your Mac. The first thing is, as Dan mentioned before, the PS3 can’t play music directly off of the iPod, while the 360 can, and does so very nicely. But, not only that, as Dan also mentioned in that post, the PS3 can’t stream music off of your Mac. Connect360 (which, you guessed it, Dan covered) allows you to stream not only unprotected music and photos from your Mac, but also Windows Media videos via Flip4Mac. Oh, and the Xbox 360 USB wired controller will work with the Mac via a special driver. And, of course, the white and chrome Xbox 360 goes much better with your Mac than the black and silver PS3 (unless you have a black Macbook).
it's already possible to hook up your 360 hd-dvd add on to your mac, i wonder if apples iTV hub will be able to transmit movies to your 360 and vice versa.
The overlooked feature and application of xbox360 HD-DVD add on is that it's already a popular gadget for the HTPC crowd. It has been couple of weeks now since the initial success of $200 HD-DVD player on a HDCP compliant PC with a HD-DVD player software. There was also a news about HP including HD-DVD rom drive for $100 upgrade option on the desktop lines and I would believe that more PC makers including apple will provide such option. As you all know that xbox360 HD-DVD add on works flawlessly for playing back SD-DVD on a mac, it should also flawlessly work with HD-DVD in the near futre either allowed by apple in the new OS/updates or by third party software. Well, if you already have bootcamp capable mac, then just get the software and the xbox360 add on drive once booted with M$ windows XP/Vista.
Anyway, $200 xbox360 HD-DVD option seems to have great potential for HD-DVD movie market by letting 10 million xbox360 owners by the year end and the knowledgeable HTPC enthusiasts to test out HD-DVD movie experience for only about $200.
BTW, anyone got lucky with a PS3 over the black Friday sales?.... I was up in the bay area visiting family and my black Friday PS3 hunt came up empty. If PS3 keeps it's status as "unavailable", I'm curious how it can help with Blu-Ray movie sales?
Comments
I don't see any data or evidence to support this. What I suspect happened was the two technologies enjoyed a great wave simultaneously and they both happened to share the same emerging technology.
The data is very clear in Japan where DVD adoption rate was slower than the US and Europe. Consoles dominated so a large percentage of DVD viewers were doing so on consoles. In the US, Sony's statements on the PS2 impact to the DVD market is overstated. One could argue the converse that the DVD player built into the PS2 helped its adoption rather than the other way around. Still a competitive advantage that helped both.
I don't doubt that Sony and BluRay will win in Japan. At least for the short run.
Vinea
http://www.threespeech.com/
You are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread. The relevance of gaming systems has already been discussed in this forum, and I think it is safe to say that the PS3 and xBox 360 are very relevant in terms of Blu Ray and HD-DVD. Blu Ray is used by the PS3 built in, and HD-DVD is used by the xBox as an add-on, and potentially (although this is just speculation) the standard option).
A single game has no bearing at all on the format war. Especially since not HD-DVD is most assuredly not standard on the 360 and is unlikely to become standard. Game developers will not issue games on both HD-DVD and DVD and cannot forsake the installed base of DVD-equipped 360s, especially since they cannot all be retrofitted with the newer drives. Remember, the HD-DVD add-on is strictly for movies. Like it or not, all 360 games are stuck on DVDs, hence the irrelevance of the sales of one game in this thread. It's quite clear from Elixir's devil emoticon that he wrote it strictly as a troll, and if you yourself had been paying attention to this thread, you'd know that he does nothing except bash Sony and praise Microsoft.
Try to read more before making ignorant, presumptuous statements like "you are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread." I've been participating in this thread on and off since it was started, 40-odd pages of postings ago.
A single game has no bearing at all on the format war. Especially since not HD-DVD is most assuredly not standard on the 360 and is unlikely to become standard. Game developers will not issue games on both HD-DVD and DVD and cannot forsake the installed base of DVD-equipped 360s, especially since they cannot all be retrofitted with the newer drives. Remember, the HD-DVD add-on is strictly for movies. Like it or not, all 360 games are stuck on DVDs, hence the irrelevance of the sales of one game in this thread. It's quite clear from Elixir's devil emoticon that he wrote it strictly as a troll, and if you yourself had been paying attention to this thread, you'd know that he does nothing except bash Sony and praise Microsoft.
Try to read more before making ignorant, presumptuous statements like "you are obviously not paying enough attention in this thread." I've been participating in this thread on and off since it was started, 40-odd pages of postings ago.
No need to get defensive. Fortunately it's not up to you to decide what is on topic or off topic. This is a discussion because people have different values, ideas, etc. The relevance of gaming systems to the DVD market is a very viable discussion for this thread, and with that comes the complexities of the gaming systems market: specific games which may or may not define dominance of one gaming system over another in the market and thus one DVD format over the other. If you are not interested in how gaming systems relate to the DVD market, that is perfectly fine by me. Close one eye, and if you still THINK you can see the full picture... hey, thats your problem, not mine.
i remember reading around 2000 when the PS2 was launched in the UK that AT LAUNCH in Japan Japanese gamers were buying games AND DVDS and the sales figures for DVDs in japan went up something like 40% from the previous month AND STAYED THERE.
call it coincidence if you want, i wont.
also i remember that sagas dreamcast was NOT selling as fast or had as much hype round it at that time and DIDNT have DVD playback, so what did sega do to try and offset the arrival of the PS2?
something that i see microsoft doing
seaga added a full sized DVD player bundled with the dreamcast for the same £300 price, and that was a BIG discount at the time as DVD players were £180 for the cheapest, so this REALLY was a bargin and likely cost sega some money to have to fund.
it offered "mom & pop" the chance to have the dvd player in the other room and little joan or jonny to have the dreamcast in their room.
did it work?
no.
if you dont believe me then fine, i offer no links to this info because i couldnt be bothered arguing and im sure a little googling or wiki skills from someone else will back me up.
oh yeah and the PS2 didnt launch until MARCH then either, but people still bought in their droves, AND used it as a DVD player, as i used mine for the last 5 years... i only recently moved over to a dvd recorder and use that as it has component out, and only recently do i have a TV that can accept that.
at the moment i WONT be buying a PS3 at launch, i WAS going to buy a Wii, but between now and march, i may swing back to a PS3 on launch again... but its good having the chance to see how things pan out in the rest of the world, to see what blu-ray sales will or wont be.
it all depends on what apple goodness is released in Jan
meanwhile im getting to see the imperfections in DVD at 50" (yuk)
at the moment i WONT be buying a PS3 at launch, i WAS going to buy a Wii, but between now and march, i may swing back to a PS3 on launch again... but its good having the chance to see how things pan out in the rest of the world, to see what blu-ray sales will or wont be.
it all depends on what apple goodness is released in Jan
meanwhile im getting to see the imperfections in DVD at 50" (yuk)
For those who didn't notice, don't make a stupid comment saying they have already launched, he's from N. Ireland, and no they haven't already launched there.
And btw, I agree with you.
. . . And btw, I agree with you.
Me too.
No need to get defensive. Fortunately it's not up to you to decide what is on topic or off topic. This is a discussion because people have different values, ideas, etc. The relevance of gaming systems to the DVD market is a very viable discussion for this thread, and with that comes the complexities of the gaming systems market: specific games which may or may not define dominance of one gaming system over another in the market and thus one DVD format over the other. If you are not interested in how gaming systems relate to the DVD market, that is perfectly fine by me. Close one eye, and if you still THINK you can see the full picture... hey, thats your problem, not mine.
Your argument is persuasive because the type was both bolded and colored for emphasis.
interesting?
//The problems reflect the difficulty companies - even those of the size of Microsoft - are having in getting video into the online age.//
ahhh poor microsoft :rollseyes:
Your argument is persuasive because the type was both bolded and colored for emphasis.
I couldn't tell if that was sarcastic or not...
The point of bold + color change was to get it noticed. I had already said that many times prior, and I was having to repeat myself because different people hadn't read my prior posts, making arguments that the PS3/xBox was off topic.
Seriously, though: I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but what I want to know is which format (if any) is a win for the consumer. I find my DVDs break all the time and like to back them up. What are the DRM in the two formats and what is the disk like? One scratch and it's "good game"?
Omg! You guys need to know something: PS3 and the xBox are SO far off topic, that they are your momma!
Seriously, though: I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but what I want to know is which format (if any) is a win for the consumer. I find my DVDs break all the time and like to back them up. What are the DRM in the two formats and what is the disk like? One scratch and it's "good game"?
Whatever format wins the war is the one that is better for consumers.
That said, the Blu-Ray holds far more space and has better scratch resistance. HD-DVD is cheaper to produce right now, but both prices will come down in the long term.
The DRM is the same. It's looking like HDCP (the big evil one everyone hates) isn't going to happen, because any movie that incorporates it is going to see stagnant sales similar to copy protected CDs.
Omg! You guys need to know something: PS3 and the xBox are SO far off topic, that they are your momma!
Seriously, though: I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but what I want to know is which format (if any) is a win for the consumer. I find my DVDs break all the time and like to back them up. What are the DRM in the two formats and what is the disk like? One scratch and it's "good game"?
Both formats support Managed Copy. You will be able to make a copy to a hard disc for perhaps a small fee. This copy should be streamable on a home network. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are not off topic because both have support for Blu-ray or HD DVD. In fact I have a friend who just bought a 42" LCD and got a free Xbox 360. I told her about the HD DVD add on and she was very interested. I'm going to help her setup the screen this weekend.
In fact I have a friend who just bought a 42" LCD and got a free Xbox 360. I told her about the HD DVD add on and she was very interested. I'm going to help her setup the screen this weekend.
where was this deal at?
Both formats support Managed Copy. You will be able to make a copy to a hard disc for perhaps a small fee.
WHAT!!??? so you PAY to make a copy of a product you already PAID for?
hells teeth
Right now, the Xbox 360 looks like the better gaming system to compliment your Mac. The first thing is, as Dan mentioned before, the PS3 can’t play music directly off of the iPod, while the 360 can, and does so very nicely. But, not only that, as Dan also mentioned in that post, the PS3 can’t stream music off of your Mac. Connect360 (which, you guessed it, Dan covered) allows you to stream not only unprotected music and photos from your Mac, but also Windows Media videos via Flip4Mac. Oh, and the Xbox 360 USB wired controller will work with the Mac via a special driver. And, of course, the white and chrome Xbox 360 goes much better with your Mac than the black and silver PS3 (unless you have a black Macbook).
it's already possible to hook up your 360 hd-dvd add on to your mac, i wonder if apples iTV hub will be able to transmit movies to your 360 and vice versa.
http://www.macuser.com/games/xbox_36...r_with_mac.php
Anyway, $200 xbox360 HD-DVD option seems to have great potential for HD-DVD movie market by letting 10 million xbox360 owners by the year end and the knowledgeable HTPC enthusiasts to test out HD-DVD movie experience for only about $200.
BTW, anyone got lucky with a PS3 over the black Friday sales?.... I was up in the bay area visiting family and my black Friday PS3 hunt came up empty. If PS3 keeps it's status as "unavailable", I'm curious how it can help with Blu-Ray movie sales?
nah could that really make a difference?