gatorguy

chasm said:

I certainly won't deny that Nest and Alexa devices work well. But the amount of personal data they collect (and then sell) about you and your family is really far beyond what most people would imagine. That data -- every idle thing you might say when it is listening, intentional or not -- paints a profile, and Google and Amazon draw conclusions about you from that profile -- not always accurate ones, either -- that lawyers, law enforcement, future employers, marketers and foreign entities (to name but a few) can access if they wish.

As you're aware but for whatever reason say otherwise, Google doesn't sell personal data. Full stop.

Employers, current or pending, cannot get personal data from Google any more than they can get Apple to give it to them.  Marketers can't have your personal data either. Google may collect more than Apple does, and both companies connect it to an advertising number for anonymization, but it does NOT mean it gets handed out for the asking. What you entrust to Google stays with Google, no different from what you entrust to Apple stays with Apple. Both companies have a history of fighting to protect your data from hackers, marketers, law enforcement requests and government demands. 

But both Apple and Google will release personal (identifiable) information such as that contained in messages, emails, profile details, and other unencrypted data if presented with a legal order to do so. That's the law, with details varying from country to country.
Note that encryption policies differ between Google and Apple, particularly as concerns cloud backups. What may be automatic on one may require opt-in on the other. Verify your settings.

I'm not familiar enough with how Amazon collects and processes data to make or dispute any claims about them.  You apparently are so I'll defer to you as knowing the facts. 

beowulfschmidt said:

Apple, being an American company, is probably going to take the position that, "We don't need to prove our innocence.  If you think we're guilty, prove it."

If DoC thinks Apple is doing the nefarious things, prove it.  It seems at least possible that Apple is indirectly responsible for some of them.  Apple's suppliers might not be as scrupulous as Apple itself, and also might also be victims of bad actors even farther down the chain.

The cases are being heard in France and Belgium, where the DRC has filed its evidence. It's not a case of prove your innocence.

Apple capitulated.

They'll be building a plant in Indonesia for iPhone components, and investing $1B in the plant and equipment. Only thing left to get things normalized is a formal written agreement from Apple, not just the verbal they've issued. 

ihatescreennames said:

gatorguy said:

ihatescreennames said:

gatorguy said:

AppleInsider said:

So it appears for now that using RCS to send messages between iPhones and Android is not encrypted. That also means that if any iMessage group has even one Android member in it, the group's conversation can potentially be read.

The same is true for an Android owner. If just one iPhone user is part of the Google Messages conversation then the entire group may be compromised.

 This is the number one reason that Apple should be aggressively involved in closing up their end of RCS. It makes everyone's messaging vulnerable as long as they don't, even those messages between iPhone owners that can't be sent with iMessage for varying reasons.

The same can be said for people using Android phones that don’t support RCS. Google should be aggressively encouraging them to update to modern OS, it makes everyone’s messaging vulnerable as long as they aren’t. 

Of course, iMessages have been encrypted from the start, so even if I send a iMessage to a person using an iPhone 4 it will be encrypted. 

Recent data shows the percentage of Android users already actively using RCS messaging is estimated to be around 70-80% in regions with widespread carrier support. With Samsung now committed to using Google Messages with E2EE as well, those numbers will be going even higher. If someone has a fairly recent Android device, RCS is enabled by default. 

Based on my contacts alone that seems reasonable. I’d say about 20% of my Android contacts don’t support RCS. Google clearly still has work to do there. On the other hand, 100% of my iPhone contacts support iMessage.

It's doubtful that 100% of your contacts support iMessage.

As long as every message is from a fellow iPhone owner and remains within iMessage, yup 100% support it. That's one of the things I like about my iPhone. But things are never constant, and like with iMessage, 100% of my Android contacts have RCS support with Google Messages, though there are some who choose to use other messaging apps instead, same as some iPhone owners who by choice don't use iMessage. 

But I think you're missing the point entirely, just ignoring it.

If every person you want to contact has only an iPhone then iMessage is all you need. I have both Android and iPhone owning friends, and I'd wager you do too. The only reason my conversations between all of us can't be private and secure is primarily Apple's fault. Were it not for lack of encryption we'd be good. Google Messages is not lacking in privacy, security and for the most part, features. 

None of the Android phone owners you know will ever have iMessage, Apple won't allow it, so that's not an option for a huge percentage of smartphone users. But as soon as Apple catches up we can all communicate securely anyway, iMessage or not. 

AppleInsider said:

So it appears for now that using RCS to send messages between iPhones and Android is not encrypted. That also means that if any iMessage group has even one Android member in it, the group's conversation can potentially be read.

The same is true for an Android owner. If just one iPhone user is part of the Google Messages conversation then the entire group may be compromised.

 This is the number one reason that Apple should be aggressively involved in closing up their end of RCS. It makes everyone's messaging vulnerable as long as they don't, even those messages between iPhone owners that can't be sent with iMessage for varying reasons.