avon b7

lowededwookie said:

avon b7 said:

AllM said:

avon b7 said:

AllM said:

avon b7 said:

teejay2012 said:

The EU Commission is 'bound' to hear all complaints... thereby ensuring that they will be employed forever, as the complaints from the Ek's and Sweeney's will be just that.. forever. Frankly the bureaucracy that has become the EU is mind boggling.

If you've read through the text of the DSA/DMA you would quickly realise that sitting back and doing nothing to reign in the control gatekeepers would be mind boggling. 

Spotify, and literally anybody, can file complaints. Some of them may lead to formal investigations.

As for compliance, well, as we can see from this process, that is yet to be determined, which in itself, blows a huge hole in the arguments of some people who insisted that Apple had complied simply because the 7th March had gone by without protests from the EU. 

The comments stated here from Apple legal are standard fare with claims of values (which are never detailed) and compliance but followed up with pure fluff like the consumer experience etc.

As I've said a few times already. We just have to wait and see now. 

I still don’t understand why you keep stickin’ up for them politicians. They are mostly shortsighted, technologically illiterate, and only ever care about lining their pockets. 

I don't stick up for anyone. LOL. 

I can be very critical of policitians like, for example, anyone involved with Brexit, or those doing nothing to clean up UK rivers, or even my local policitians who once shut down a local welfare centre providing free meals to the needy during the month of August arguing there wasn't enough in the budget to cover operating costs while at the same time spending a quarter of a million euros on some sculptures for the beach. 

There are good and bad politicians. There are good and bad decisions but, mostly, the EU has worked to benefit its citizens. The results are visible. 

I'm writing this from a train sitting next to a giant sign explaining how much EU money was used to install an ATP system on my stretch of line. The air I breathe is cleaner thanks to EU regulations. I will be taking in a Rowenta heater (now in its third year) for repair under warranty next week. The parts needed for that repair will be available for at least 10 years. All thanks to the EU. For this heater in particular, parts will be available for 15 years. 

If it ever needs to be repaired again and out of warranty the price has to be fair (again, thanks to the EU). Today that is a 26€ repair if I choose to go for a flat fee repair. 

Last year I had to go for an emergency consultation on what turned out to be a torn retina. I ended up with argon laser shots to shore things up. All free. 

The seawater that I swim in is tested daily and reports are posted weekly on display boards at the beach. Those are EU regulations. 

I have micro, mini, temporary and fixed green points available to me for recycling e-waste (or any other waste that isn't organic, paper, glass, plastic...) . If I buy a large electrical appliance, the seller has to take the old one away if I have no other plans for it. All for free. 

They are all the result of political decisions. 

Most of the EU directives impacting Apple have been around for years. The DMA/DSA are simply efforts to bring legislation into line with current reality. 

There is another big directive in the pipe concerning how long products should last but Apple can take a breather here. The first industry to be impacted by that will be the textile industry. 

Good exposition, - thanks! The problem with those initiatives, though, is that the manufacturers aren’t likely to shoulder the burden of increased expenses, and the product pricing itself is the one thing governments cannot explicitly regulate. So stuff is going to get even more expensive. 

That’s where competition comes in but if Apple is doing its part to eliminate competition something needs to change, hence what we currently have: DSA/DMA.

Something similar may pop up in the US but maybe Tim will decide to visit the White House more often and try to persuade government to not do that. 

But Apple ISN’T killing competition. This is the thing people are so blind to see.

Spotify is claiming Apple is killing competition but it owns 56% of the music streaming sector with Apple down around 13%. How did Spotify get there? On Apple’s platform with Apple actively promoting it. How is that killing competition?

Now Spotify is so big it feels it needs special treatment. The problem here is that Apple won’t give it that special treatment because THAT is what kills competition. Apple treats Spotify the same as it treats a teenage developer because that KEEPS competition active.

So because Spotify can’t get its way on a platform Apple OWNS from start to finish, they lobby the EU to attack companies like Apple.

You claim that the DMA rules have been around for years but you also disregard the efforts Apple has done to adhere to those laws in order to continue to operate in the EU. If Apple had being doing wrong by EU law it would have been slammed by now if, as you say, those laws already existed.

The worst the EU has done was come at them with regards to having their European business run out of Ireland but Apple did no wrong there because it was in fact following the rules set out by the EU. Was it a loophole? Maybe, but it was 100% legal until the EU realised it wasn’t getting a bunch of money illegally. And it is illegal how the EU went after Irish based companies because the law allowed for businesses to base themselves in Ireland.

Im not saying everything the EU is doing is wrong, just that the EU isn’t doing a good job of going after actual people or businesses that are operating illegally.

The DMA exists not to bring EU law up to date but to try and swindle more money from overseas businesses to try and booster European companies who are all failing.

I didn't say the DMA rules have been around for years but that competition directives have been around for years. Along with others on e-waste, consumer protections etc.

Killing competition is done by not allowing it to exist. Most, if not all of Apple's changes have been a direct result of complaints, investigations or directives. Without those nothing would have changed and Apple likes to argue it has expenses to pay by providing frameworks, payment processing systems and whatnot but prefers to keep the actual numbers of the business conveniently shielded by a screen of corporate secrets which could damage its business interests. 

Not allowing anyone to use NFC hardware was anti-competitive. Forcing anyone who wanted to use a wallet system to use Apple Pay was anti-competitive. As was not allowing third party app stores. As was anti-steering. 

As for complying with EU law, Apple mostly has a good record but is far from totally clean. AppleCare has been a continuous problem for consumer protection bodies and multiple fines have been applied. 

The Danes famously argued that an old iBook had a design flaw but Apple refused to accept the idea. That case went down the x-ray route and I believe ended up in court. Apple accepted the final ruling.

Their is no 'bias' in the EU system and many decisions go to appeal and are changed. That is why Apple went for years without getting slapped. It took complaints to really get the ball rolling. It doesn't mean what they were doing all those years actually adhered to laws. 

There is no EU version of General Melchett overseeing the court processes as if Speckled Jim were in play. Although back in Brexit Blighty I would be surprised to see pigeons doing the messaging again. 

The Irish Affair isn't over yet and never contemplated the whole period of Apple's sweetheart deal anyway. We'll have to wait for the outcome of that. 

Apple had a multi billion dollar deal with the Chinese government too (until relatively recently). 

AllM said:

avon b7 said:

AllM said:

avon b7 said:

teejay2012 said:

The EU Commission is 'bound' to hear all complaints... thereby ensuring that they will be employed forever, as the complaints from the Ek's and Sweeney's will be just that.. forever. Frankly the bureaucracy that has become the EU is mind boggling.

If you've read through the text of the DSA/DMA you would quickly realise that sitting back and doing nothing to reign in the control gatekeepers would be mind boggling. 

Spotify, and literally anybody, can file complaints. Some of them may lead to formal investigations.

As for compliance, well, as we can see from this process, that is yet to be determined, which in itself, blows a huge hole in the arguments of some people who insisted that Apple had complied simply because the 7th March had gone by without protests from the EU. 

The comments stated here from Apple legal are standard fare with claims of values (which are never detailed) and compliance but followed up with pure fluff like the consumer experience etc.

As I've said a few times already. We just have to wait and see now. 

I still don’t understand why you keep stickin’ up for them politicians. They are mostly shortsighted, technologically illiterate, and only ever care about lining their pockets. 

I don't stick up for anyone. LOL. 

I can be very critical of policitians like, for example, anyone involved with Brexit, or those doing nothing to clean up UK rivers, or even my local policitians who once shut down a local welfare centre providing free meals to the needy during the month of August arguing there wasn't enough in the budget to cover operating costs while at the same time spending a quarter of a million euros on some sculptures for the beach. 

There are good and bad politicians. There are good and bad decisions but, mostly, the EU has worked to benefit its citizens. The results are visible. 

I'm writing this from a train sitting next to a giant sign explaining how much EU money was used to install an ATP system on my stretch of line. The air I breathe is cleaner thanks to EU regulations. I will be taking in a Rowenta heater (now in its third year) for repair under warranty next week. The parts needed for that repair will be available for at least 10 years. All thanks to the EU. For this heater in particular, parts will be available for 15 years. 

If it ever needs to be repaired again and out of warranty the price has to be fair (again, thanks to the EU). Today that is a 26€ repair if I choose to go for a flat fee repair. 

Last year I had to go for an emergency consultation on what turned out to be a torn retina. I ended up with argon laser shots to shore things up. All free. 

The seawater that I swim in is tested daily and reports are posted weekly on display boards at the beach. Those are EU regulations. 

I have micro, mini, temporary and fixed green points available to me for recycling e-waste (or any other waste that isn't organic, paper, glass, plastic...) . If I buy a large electrical appliance, the seller has to take the old one away if I have no other plans for it. All for free. 

They are all the result of political decisions. 

Most of the EU directives impacting Apple have been around for years. The DMA/DSA are simply efforts to bring legislation into line with current reality. 

There is another big directive in the pipe concerning how long products should last but Apple can take a breather here. The first industry to be impacted by that will be the textile industry. 

Good exposition, - thanks! The problem with those initiatives, though, is that the manufacturers aren’t likely to shoulder the burden of increased expenses, and the product pricing itself is the one thing governments cannot explicitly regulate. So stuff is going to get even more expensive. 

That’s where competition comes in but if Apple is doing its part to eliminate competition something needs to change, hence what we currently have: DSA/DMA.

Something similar may pop up in the US but maybe Tim will decide to visit the White House more often and try to persuade government to not do that. 

AllM said:

avon b7 said:

teejay2012 said:

The EU Commission is 'bound' to hear all complaints... thereby ensuring that they will be employed forever, as the complaints from the Ek's and Sweeney's will be just that.. forever. Frankly the bureaucracy that has become the EU is mind boggling.

If you've read through the text of the DSA/DMA you would quickly realise that sitting back and doing nothing to reign in the control gatekeepers would be mind boggling. 

Spotify, and literally anybody, can file complaints. Some of them may lead to formal investigations.

As for compliance, well, as we can see from this process, that is yet to be determined, which in itself, blows a huge hole in the arguments of some people who insisted that Apple had complied simply because the 7th March had gone by without protests from the EU. 

The comments stated here from Apple legal are standard fare with claims of values (which are never detailed) and compliance but followed up with pure fluff like the consumer experience etc.

As I've said a few times already. We just have to wait and see now. 

I still don’t understand why you keep stickin’ up for them politicians. They are mostly shortsighted, technologically illiterate, and only ever care about lining their pockets. 

I don't stick up for anyone. LOL. 

I can be very critical of policitians like, for example, anyone involved with Brexit, or those doing nothing to clean up UK rivers, or even my local policitians who once shut down a local welfare centre providing free meals to the needy during the month of August arguing there wasn't enough in the budget to cover operating costs while at the same time spending a quarter of a million euros on some sculptures for the beach. 

There are good and bad politicians. There are good and bad decisions but, mostly, the EU has worked to benefit its citizens. The results are visible. 

I'm writing this from a train sitting next to a giant sign explaining how much EU money was used to install an ATP system on my stretch of line. The air I breathe is cleaner thanks to EU regulations. I will be taking in a Rowenta heater (now in its third year) for repair under warranty next week. The parts needed for that repair will be available for at least 10 years. All thanks to the EU. For this heater in particular, parts will be available for 15 years. 

If it ever needs to be repaired again and out of warranty the price has to be fair (again, thanks to the EU). Today that is a 26€ repair if I choose to go for a flat fee repair. 

Last year I had to go for an emergency consultation on what turned out to be a torn retina. I ended up with argon laser shots to shore things up. All free. 

The seawater that I swim in is tested daily and reports are posted weekly on display boards at the beach. Those are EU regulations. 

I have micro, mini, temporary and fixed green points available to me for recycling e-waste (or any other waste that isn't organic, paper, glass, plastic...) . If I buy a large electrical appliance, the seller has to take the old one away if I have no other plans for it. All for free. 

They are all the result of political decisions. 

Most of the EU directives impacting Apple have been around for years. The DMA/DSA are simply efforts to bring legislation into line with current reality. 

There is another big directive in the pipe concerning how long products should last but Apple can take a breather here. The first industry to be impacted by that will be the textile industry. 

lordjohnwhorfin said:

BeOS User said:

If this report is true, (a huge IF) a folding iPhone would be the first major design change since 2007 and the original 4GB iPhone. Yes, Apple has lost it, they've been riding the Ghost of Steve Jobs influence ever since. 

Oh for crying out loud. Have you seen the current tech for folding phones? It’s garbage. Apple is not going to put its name on a crappy product that has a crease right in the middle of the screen. If and when the technology allows making a reliable phone with a creaseless screen, they’ll make one. Until then we’ll have to make do with Tim Apple lack of creativity and inferior, boring, not-at-all innovative products like AirPods, AirTags, Vision Pro… </s>

There is nothing 'garbage' about the state of almost all current folding phones and creases are a tradeoff and literally invisible in use. 

They are tradeoffs, like the notch and big bezels. Remember those? 

Two things stood out at MWC. One, probably the entire Mercedes fleet of shiny black mini vans with tinted windows, and two, the amount of folding phones being used by visitors. 

darelrex said:

It's not just the size of the fine that's retroactive; it's the whole idea that Apple has been violating the law for years. Apple's had the same App Store rules for 16 years (if anything, they've just gotten more lax), long before it was even a small fraction of its current valuation, and long before iPhone was much more than a sliver of the mobile market. Nobody running the EU thought anything was illegal about it. But now that iPhone is a trillion-dollar, smash success, suddenly it's not only illegal, but it's been illegal for years, and we need to hit them up for that. What's $2 billion here, $5 billion there, to a $3T company? They'll probably just pay, right?

But Apple's thinking, what happens in the long run if we do pay this? Next thing we know, every government in the world is hitting us up for big bucks, and demanding we trash our most successful product so the "little guys" can screw with it. Better to draw a line now, than to wait until it gets much, much worse.

You're not far off. Apple got away with a lot over the years but size does matter. The bigger you are, the bigger the potential problem and the more likely you are to see complaints. Apple ended up on the radar and got investigated. It was never alone. Many more EU companies got whacked along the way. 

All the current directives on digital lifestyles make explicit reference to the massive changes brought about by telecommunications advances (the backbone all digital era companies require) and factor those changes into the legislation. Once again, Apple is just another player in that context.