sog35 said:

rotateleftbyte said:

sog35 said:

Cook is stuck with 1995 thinking. Data collecting is not evil. Adversting is not evil. As long as the data is kept safe and anonymous its fine. People are willing to sacrifice some privacy for awesome services that make their life more productive and enjoyable. Its time for Apple to wake up and stop their extreme privacy stance.

!00% wrong.  Data collection is EVIL. Just look at what the likes of Google and Amazon do with your data.
I made a decision years ago to never sign up to any Google service NOT to any Social Media site. The less they know about you the better.
If you google for me using my name, you find other people with my name but not me. That means I'm not the product.
There is a reason that the Military uses the term 'Need to know'.
Advertising is also evil. It sets out to make you buy stuff that you don't want or can't afford using a weakness in the human psyche. And yes I did spend 4 years working for an Ad company. IT was there that I reached my opinion about it.
If I get a 'targetted' advert (I'm looking at you Amazon) then I ignore it and buy something else (or nothing at all).
So Sog35 why don't you leave this place and go over to the Google place where you will be amongst friends and you can slag off Apple to your hearts content and get upvoted for it. You obviously hate everything about Apple and have done for some time. time to quit.

I respect your viewpoint about advertising and data collection.
But the fact is you are the minority.

Facebook Used on 86 Percent of iOS Devices

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Facebook-iOS-Android-Google-Apple,news-16588.html

Top Apps on iOS
https://www.appannie.com/apps/ios/top/

#1Facebook Messenger,
#2 Facebook,
#3 Youtube,
#4 Snapchat,
#5 Instagram,
#6  Google Maps......................come on. The majority of iOS users don't care about privacy.



I hate Apple? So why the hell do I have 1000 shares in the company?

And just because Amazon/Google/FB abuse the data they collect does not mean Apple has too.
They can collect data, profit from it, and benefit the customer WITHOUT abusing it.

Again - your comparing selling us devices vs running social networks.  They are different things.  It's the same as saying Proctor and Gamble are failing because they aren't using massive data collection about how I shave, or wash my clothes.  They cannot be compared.

Compare what Apple are doing with what Google are doing with ANDROID, rather than their ad sales. This is an equitable comparison.  Apple comes out on top don't they?  Otherwise you'd be using Android.

sog35 said:

macxpress said:

sog35 said:

dick applebaum said:

sog35 said:

wdowell said:

Completely agree that Apple's stance on privacy is ridiculous. Because they aren't honest and open. They boast -for marketing reasons no doubt - and then they caught red handed doing things 'for convenience - whether it be iMessage technical logs ("to help troubleshooting") or these call syncing. What Happens if you ONLY own an Iphone? Why woul d you want that data syncing? Why isnt it off by default? or clearly labeled? of course, it's not. LIke the rest of teh BS.

And to conclude: they really wanted to do a good job of protecting customer date: they could by not theselves hold the iCloud backup keys

I also think Most customers dont really want this obsession. For a start MOST Apple customers using iOS are ALSO Google customers too, and many will be Facebook users. So if their beliefs were so strong...   (which reminds me: Why does Apple continue to take money for Google to make Google teh default search engine, if they're SO opposed to the way they treat customers privacy?)

Agree 100%

Its PURE HYPOCRACY that Timid Tim brags about privacy yet................Google is still the default search app on 100% of iOS devices. If Tim was honest then DuckDuckGo would be the default search.

sog35, consider yourself warned -- you will not be allowed to continue domination of this thread!

is not this topic about privacy?

I don't get it. I'm not going off topic

Everything you post in this forum is about how you hate Tim Cook. It really gets tiring after a while. Its seriously annoying the majority of users here. You're never going to get anywhere with it here so why do you keep turning every thread into a I hate Tim Cook conversation? You never post about much of anything here unless its something you can turn as a fault of Tim Cook and how he should be fired. 

the fact is Tim Cook is now the face of Apple.
The buck stops with Tim Cook. PERIOD.

So if something bad happens it lands on Tim Cook's head.  And things have been BAD for Apple lately. Stock is down 20% from its highs. iPhone sales DOWN, iPad sales DOWN, Mac sales DOWN, Watch sales DOWN. China sales down 40%. So much negative press about the new macbooks. I mean what can I say?

Is this all Tim Cooks fault? of course not. But he is the LEADER of Apple. He is ultimately responsible. So its ultimately his fault.

When Apple sales were up you weren't hearing me complain about Cook. But the fact is Cook and Apple has underperformed MASSIVELY the last 12 months. 

There is a difference between fault, and his problem.  A reason iPhone sales are down is because they are down year on year, when massive sales were a result of the iPhone 6.  The long term isn't nearly as newsworthy.  

Have they underperformed?  Against what measure?  Perhaps if you only have short-termism point of view.  Long term, they aren't underperforming, they are in a major transition after massive sales increases.  The future is bright.

sog35 said:

henryblackman said:

sog35 said:

avon b7 said:

It doesn't matter if users value it or not. That's the least of it. As a fundamental right, it is there and rightly so.

 sog35 said:

avon b7 said:

sog35 said:

good.

I'm sick and tired of Tim Cook's stance on privacy.

The hell with privacy. The truth is 99% of the population don't care about privacy. They just want a good product at a good price.

Its time for Apple to go head first into Advertising and Data collection ala Facebook/Google.

But one of Cook's pillars is privacy, so he would have egg whites all over his face.

That's why Cook needs to be replaced with a savy, practical, and ruthless CEO.  Cook is more fit to be a CEO of a non-profit or charity organization. His stance on privacy has literally costed Apple HUNDREDS of BILLIONS in profits.

Cook has all these pie in the sky ideals - privacy, diversity, gay rights, ect. Fine and dandy. But a CEO of the worlds most powerful company should not have its hands tied because of following those ideals. Cook should keep his personal values SEPERATE from the corporations values. All Apple should be about is providing the BEST PRODUCTS and SERVICES.......period.  If this means less diversity, less privacy, ect. so be it.

Personal and Corporate values may overlap. Privacy is a fundamental right. Protecting privacy isn't only a question of values but legislation. The problem is that legislation will always trail technological advances. Just look at the problem of drones and privacy. 

But Apple customers don't give 2 sheets about privacy.

90-95% of iOS users either are on Facebook or use Google services. That is a FACT.

Yet Apple sacrifices literally TENS of BILLIONS of dollars because of their ridiculous stance on privacy.

IMO, I'd rather have Apple be the custodian of my information than Google/Facebook. I want Apple to start their versions of Facebook/Google so they can rake in BILLIONS and also keep that data away from Google/FB.

Bottom line is people will be using social media and sites that require data collection. With or without Apple. So it makes ZERO sense for Apple to be stubborn and not participate. 

Cook is actually hurting iOS customers because he is forcing them to use Google/FB instead of an Apple run equilvelent.

Cook is stuck with 1995 thinking. Data collecting is not evil. Adversting is not evil. As long as the data is kept safe and anonymous its fine. People are willing to sacrifice some privacy for awesome services that make their life more productive and enjoyable. Its time for Apple to wake up and stop their extreme privacy s

I never said Apple should break the law regarding privacy

But they should remove their extreme privacy stance.

iOS users have spoken. They don't care about privacy aka 90-95% of iOS users use Facebook/Google

Using Facebook/Google and caring about privacy are not mutually exclusive.  

I use Facebook sometimes, I have to - everyone I know is there.  It doesn't mean I can't care about privacy.  I do very much.  When presented with a choice, I use iOS because of many things but one of those things is that I can enjoy all the advantages of the latest technology without Apple knowing my every move.  I am the customer, not the corporations looking to advertise. That's important to me, and I suspect the majority of Apple customers.

You are in the minority.

But if Apple did start a Facebook/Google like service you could do the same thing. Opt out of the data collecting features.

I and most Apple users probably would feel more comfortable with Apple collecting our data then Facebook/Google. That's why its so important that Apple start these services (adversting, data collection, social). Because now we don't have a choice. Its either give your data to FB/Google or be left out. I want a third choice, and that's Apple being the custodian of my data.

How do you know I am in the minority?  What empirical research have you done.  I'd love to see it.

Your argument is illogical, but to debate with your train of thought: Apple do collect your data, of course they do.  They just anonymise and/or encrypt it and don't, unless the service specifically requires it, tie it back to you.  How do you think they recommend news to you in News, and new artists to you in Music?  

However Facebook are not the same as Apple.  Apple are not a social network, nor do they try to be.  Facebook are.  Google offer a device to customers, and a platform for other OEMs to build devices.  Does Android collect a lot about you? Yes.  More than iOS?  Yes.  Does it have to to provide better services? No.  Google's choice has been to collect everything they can.  As they are an advertising company it is built into the corporate DNA.  It takes the likes of the EU to put them in their place with regard to data privacy.  Apple are a hardware/software company so it's not in their corporate DNA to collect and use all the data about you they can.  

With regard to your other points: Apple did have an advertising unit. It went away because they couldn't offer such invasive profiling as Google, Facebook and increasingly Snap can.  That's not bad news because Apple is not an advertising company so why do something they don't want to do.  They aren't a conglomerate.  They write software and design hardware.

Apple collects massive amounts of data regarding your behaviour.  Read about their approach which guarantees your privacy in other articles recently.

All in all, do I want to be advertised to? No.  What has that got to do with the device I use?  It shouldn't.  However, as I'm the customer I choose to pay for my device, not have the OS development underwritten by advertising revenue.  This is my choice, and I do have a choice.  Whether I run Facebook or Google services on top of this device is another choice.  Do I like them profiling me against all those little 'Like' buttons on EVERY web page in existence.  No.  So I block them, like so many other people - with an ad blocker.  The same for those Google + buttons, and Google's ad network.  All blocked.  I am exercising my right to privacy as best as I am able.  I can't think of any Google services which I must use because they are significantly better than non-Google services which give me more privacy.  Not one.  My privacy is in good shape and I'm missing nothing by insisting on it.

sog35 said:

avon b7 said:

It doesn't matter if users value it or not. That's the least of it. As a fundamental right, it is there and rightly so.

 sog35 said:

avon b7 said:

sog35 said:

good.

I'm sick and tired of Tim Cook's stance on privacy.

The hell with privacy. The truth is 99% of the population don't care about privacy. They just want a good product at a good price.

Its time for Apple to go head first into Advertising and Data collection ala Facebook/Google.

But one of Cook's pillars is privacy, so he would have egg whites all over his face.

That's why Cook needs to be replaced with a savy, practical, and ruthless CEO.  Cook is more fit to be a CEO of a non-profit or charity organization. His stance on privacy has literally costed Apple HUNDREDS of BILLIONS in profits.

Cook has all these pie in the sky ideals - privacy, diversity, gay rights, ect. Fine and dandy. But a CEO of the worlds most powerful company should not have its hands tied because of following those ideals. Cook should keep his personal values SEPERATE from the corporations values. All Apple should be about is providing the BEST PRODUCTS and SERVICES.......period.  If this means less diversity, less privacy, ect. so be it.

Personal and Corporate values may overlap. Privacy is a fundamental right. Protecting privacy isn't only a question of values but legislation. The problem is that legislation will always trail technological advances. Just look at the problem of drones and privacy. 

But Apple customers don't give 2 sheets about privacy.

90-95% of iOS users either are on Facebook or use Google services. That is a FACT.

Yet Apple sacrifices literally TENS of BILLIONS of dollars because of their ridiculous stance on privacy.

IMO, I'd rather have Apple be the custodian of my information than Google/Facebook. I want Apple to start their versions of Facebook/Google so they can rake in BILLIONS and also keep that data away from Google/FB.

Bottom line is people will be using social media and sites that require data collection. With or without Apple. So it makes ZERO sense for Apple to be stubborn and not participate. 

Cook is actually hurting iOS customers because he is forcing them to use Google/FB instead of an Apple run equilvelent.

Cook is stuck with 1995 thinking. Data collecting is not evil. Adversting is not evil. As long as the data is kept safe and anonymous its fine. People are willing to sacrifice some privacy for awesome services that make their life more productive and enjoyable. Its time for Apple to wake up and stop their extreme privacy s

I never said Apple should break the law regarding privacy

But they should remove their extreme privacy stance.

iOS users have spoken. They don't care about privacy aka 90-95% of iOS users use Facebook/Google

Using Facebook/Google and caring about privacy are not mutually exclusive.  

I use Facebook sometimes, I have to - everyone I know is there.  It doesn't mean I can't care about privacy.  I do very much.  When presented with a choice, I use iOS because of many things but one of those things is that I can enjoy all the advantages of the latest technology without Apple knowing my every move.  I am the customer, not the corporations looking to advertise. That's important to me, and I suspect the majority of Apple customers.