poksi

Douchebag got something for that stunt....

josu said:

poksi said:

"... it wouldn't hurt noting that the only service Apple does nowadays is reselling IP...."    IP => Intelectual Property. Last time I checked apps and music were exactly that. Ignoring conveniently everything else what was written there.

Perdona yo hablo castellano, si tu utilizas contracciones que no conozco es tu error, no el mío, si hablas para todo el mundo, procura hacerte entender, yo, a propósito no me hago entender ahora, te buscas un traductor, capullo, y déjate de jilipolleces pitagorin resabido.

I will not translate my post, If you want to ridiculice mine you must first be fluent in my own language, OK. So IP, is Intellectual Property, OK , but usually here in Spain we know IP as the IP Address of Internet. You are speaking to a global audience, reduce your localisms to a bare minimum, because they can be misleading, capullin.

Seriously?? I don't care what your mother tongue is, I can write you the same in mine and in other 4 languages I'm fluent at. If you want to discuss, then ask if you don't get something, it's fine, but don't spin this into some kind of imaginary language war, because you are right now ridiculing yourself.
Especially by hanging on one petty single punch in a long list or arguments you have no guts, logic and knowledge to even discuss or counter. Go to sleep...

jameskatt2 said:

anantksundaram said:

People can spin it any way they want, but this is just not good news. The market currently has absolutely no confidence in Apple's ability to generate value from future growth opportunities. And, we can criticize or chuckle at Google all we want (I often get in on it too), but they have a narrative that the market is buying in droves. As it currently does with Facebook and Microsoft as well.

Kudos to them.

Apple truly can and must do better on conveying some sense of who or what it wants to be 2, 5, 10 years out. This is not rocket science. Every major company does it in some form or the other. That's a huge part of what CEOs are paid to do. It involves much more than talking about "industrial era taxes", "dollar versus yuan", etc.

I realize a lot of people here do not own AAPL and therefore couldn't care less, but for those of us who have been very long-term shareholders of the company, this news hurts. There is simply no need for such underachievement. It's bewildering.

(And, please spare me the vacuous stuff about "Wall Street casino" and such; those are simply sound bites).

Apple already conveys what it wants to be in 2, 5, and 10 years out. It does it clearly and simply. 1. Apple wants to make the best products it can make that enrich and improves people's lives. That is so simple. Apple is not focused on profits. Apple is focused on product. 2. And Apple's product development is simple too: To iteratively and gradually improve its products. Apple has only a few product. It will never have the number of products its competitors has. Apple is simply more laser focused. 3. And Apple doesn't do revolutionary products except rarely. Apple always does incrementally upgrades products it has. That is what Apple will always be.

Apple does not convey anything for that period ahead or even less. Others don't do much either, but they do more for sure.

1. It's quite opposite. Apple cares about short term profits too much which omits them greatly in taking bigger market share and really be what they claim to be: service company. Lower market share also means much less development in service sector. At the same time people are whining about how Google sells only one product it wouldn't hurt noting that the only service Apple does nowadays is reselling IP. They stopped selling it's own software and they failed miserably with mobile ads. On the other side Google sells it's click cash in so many different ways and streams that it is really hard to talk about one product, not to mention that all they need to do from time to time is wind up frequency of ads on their most popular monopolised channels and off you go!   And they are far from full whack here... Not to mention, that they've barely scratched the surface of IP reselling...

2. Wrong again. Apple created 3 new product categories just in previous decade. Perception about Apple is much different than that and people don't like it to change to be like you described. Look at the car manufacturers. The most successful are the ones that created new product categories, not the ones that have simply improving existing. Apple is also not laser focused any more. Not even with products. Beside traditional personal computing they'd introduced 2 handheld product categories, tablet. living room device with its own integrated platform and watch. Compare this to other IT hardware manufacturers. It also offers quite a broad range of products in all main categories, especially notebooks. 

3. Again: Apple created at least 3 new product categories just in previous decade (iPod, iPhone, iPad, add Apple TV, perhaps). At least two in decade before (Newton, iMac), not to mention large steps in innovations in "standard categories", like notebooks. At least 3 in decade before (Mac, DTP, GUI, not to mention loads of huge increments all over categories, especially in software and always recognising correct hardware trends and support them in early stage like, SCSI, USB, Wifi, Bluetooth, just to name few...) and one simple breakthrough product category in the first decade of its existence. What's going on after 2010 is not what Apple was. Beside  the absence of new products it takes the ages to do a relatively small steps ahead in area of services offerings.
So, completely wrong here: we are used to Apple to create revolutionary products and market and customers expects them to always be like that.

r4d4 said:

This is bad news. wall street knows that minor spec bumps on pc's and same ol thing each year isn't sustainable. iPhones sales are down because the S model was a minor upgrade. 3D touch is a gimmick. yes, it's fater, but that's not enough anymore. People now understand that iPhone is $1000 thanks to Next/Edge plans. Phone sales will continue to go down. Apple thinks it can just sit around and coast. They aren't doing anything. They spec bump and sit back down. No innovation going on. The phone OS looks the same year after year. The hardware gets a new haircut once every 2 years. Not good enough in today's market. Macs are just on auto pilot. Swap the proc and ram. Done til next year. I think Tim Cook needs to step aside, and someone needs to make Ives get off his ass.

That's load of bollocks. All these products are way beyond competition or at least slightly ahead. Problem is they are continuously struggling to capitalise on user base in terms of services. The latter rose slighlty more than Google's revenue. Mostly through Appstore where the prices are growing constantly. On the other hand Google managed to achieve this growth with drastically falling average prices of mobile adverts by just simply winding up the quantity of forced adverts on all its channels. Apple simply can't do this...

jdnc123 said:

anantksundaram said:

People can spin it any way they want, but this is just not good news. The market currently has absolutely no confidence in Apple's ability to generate value from future growth opportunities. And, we can criticize or chuckle at Google all we want (I often get in on it too), but they have a narrative that the market is buying in droves. As it currently does with Facebook and Microsoft ...

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Market multiples are often broadly and on company-specific basis just a reflection of sentiment from the collective crowd.  The sentiment from the market today on Apple is that nobody has any confidence in their ability to navigate this road bump and continue to grow.  I don't get this hardware vs software crap..... apple has been sitting on tens of billions of cash for years, they could have diversified their revenue stream but chose not to.  Why should management get a pass now for doing nothing when many people have for years said they law of large numbers and saturation would catch up to them.  Guess what Tim Cook, it did, you just had your head buried in the sand.

I have no idea what Apple wants to be in 5 years nor does anyone on this board nor does the market.  Their primary product growth is negative/shrinking (according to mgmt), why should the market give them a market multiple when mgmt can't articulate a vision for what they will be in 3 years let alone 5, something every other company on earth does???

To the point! Apple was slow in changing it's business and market saturation caught up sooner that they anticipated.