bigmushroom

There is Rayz2016 said:

Well this will be interesting. 
Cook was prepared to defy the FBI in the US to protect privacy. Let's see how far he'll go in China. 

No this will be boring and depressive: there is no way around this in China. The FBI was easy to defy because the US isn't China: Apple's stance triggered a public discussion. We probably won't find out much about it either because Apple will have no interest in detailing exactly how they will have to cave in to the Chinese government's demand.

The only way around it would be to abandon China - like Google has done by the way back in 2010. Among the multi-nationals they are the only ones who won't be affected much by these rules because they already paid the cost of losing the Chinese market in 2010.

dugbug said:

rogifan_new said:

This headline is stupid. You can't capture more than 100% of something.

It means other players in this market lost money

It's still not a very useful measure.

Say that Apple makes 10 billion profit, Samsung makes 6 billions and everybody else loses 6 billion.

Then Apple makes 100% of industry - but Samsung also makes 60% of industry profits.

However, the "100%" suggests somehow that everyone but Apple is insignificant which is not the case in this example. It would seem more informative to compare Apple's profits to the closest competitors. 

bestkeptsecret said:

radarthekat said:

You should read more carefully the sections you bolded.  You'll see that's there's a significant difference.  operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones is exactly what people are referring to when they say Google data mines its customers to better target them.  Because THATS WHAT GOOGLE'S SERVICES DO.  Whereas Apple's wording makes clear, solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available.  That means Apple has the right to deal with your data only in order to facilitate the purpose for which you handed them the data, such as to store it as a backup, or to share it with those YOU CONFIGURED YOUR ACCOUNT TO SHARE PHOTOS WITH.  Huge, huge difference in these terms. 

Why aren't Gatorguy and Bigmushroom responding to this one? I see that Gatorguy responded to every comment save for this one.

Gatorguy already answered this question: there is a general TOS agreement that covers all services and then specific qualifications for services such as Google Drive and Photos. Your Google Maps edits won't disappear if you shut down your account but your photo files will be deleted from Google's servers.

Both Apple's and Google's TOS are written in remarkably clear language. It's not difficult to find the relevant sections. People in this forum don't have to keep regurgitating Google's supposed TOS from old posts or other websites or rely on my own research (which I did in a few minutes): just look it up yourself. 

cpsro said:

bigmushroom said:

Google's terms of service for user-created content are here:
https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/terms/

"When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services.

Here are Apple's:
http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html

"Except for material we may license to you, Apple does not claim ownership of the materials and/or Content you submit or make available on the Service. However, by submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users with whom you consent to share such Content, you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you. You agree that any Content submitted or posted by you shall be your sole responsibility, shall not infringe or violate the rights of any other party or violate any laws, contribute to or encourage infringing or otherwise unlawful conduct, or otherwise be obscene, objectionable, or in poor taste. By submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users, you are representing that you are the owner of such material and/or have all necessary rights, licenses, and authorization to distribute it."

They are extremely similar and cover the mechanics of cloud computing (where files have to be copied and displayed somewhere). The part of the Google license that mentions continuing use after you close account applies only to things like listings yo have added to Google maps - photos for example are deleted and hence no longer displayed.

You're delusional, but I don't blame you, because Google lawyers promote this in a carefully crafted document. Google does not limit its perpetual right-to-use to "things like listings." Google would like you to think it does, but nothing in the ToS actually says that, so it doesn't. Apple limits its rights to material the user provides for public access or otherwise shares, and if the user discontinues sharing, the material is no longer covered by Apple's license. Google grabs everything, forever.

The two ToS documents are actually very dissimilar.

Respectfully disagree.

You can look at the specific restrictions on what "perpetual" means in the product-specific terms of services:

https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2733115?hl=en&ref_topic=2428743

It says in the Google Drive TOS (Photos is really part of that since Google Photos appear as a folder there - emphasis mine):

"We do not claim ownership in any of your content, including any text, data, information, and files that you upload, share, or store in your Drive account. What our Terms of Service do is enable us to give you the services you want — so if you decide to share a document with someone, or want to open it on a different device, we can provide that functionality.

To sum it up:

• You control who can access your files in Drive. We will not share your files and data with others except as described in our Privacy Policy. So, for example:
  • We will not change a Private document into a Public one;
  • We will not use a Private document for marketing or promotional campaigns;
  • We will keep your data only as long as you ask us to keep it.
• You can take your data with you if you choose to stop using Google Drive."

Sounds pretty clear to me: they won't keep your files if you cancel your Drive Account. They won't market your files.

Of course, people have their favorite paranoias which they like to project onto Google.