robbyx

MacPro said:

robbyx said:

genovelle said:

wood1208 said:

I doubt it. If Apple wants to make a sizable dent and expand MAC user base, eco-system than keep expanding bottom user base. Offer GoTo systems for bottom huge user base and rest to professionals,enterprises,

Sizable market share doesn’t make any money. The companies who are selling those computers are not making profit on them. Profit means you can continue to develop new things while others suffer or die. 

On the other hand, you need marketshare to attract third party developers, something Apple has done quite well on iOS, but never particularly well on macOS.  The Mac is withering on the vine at Apple anyway. They’re going to keep it alive until iOS can replace it, but it’s clear that computers, at least in the traditional desktop sense of the word, haven’t been Apple’s passion for a while now.

There are quite a few Macs out there and unlike the buyers of low-end PCs, they do have the ability to buy lots of stuff.  Don't get me wrong there are great high-end PCs out there from the likes of Dell but the vast majority are low-end crap.

When I read comments like this, I just sort of marvel at how Apple fans have changed over the years.  It never used to be about which company was the most profitable or which users did or did not have the means to buy things (in other words, naked classism).  It was always about which platform was better.

Today Apple fans routinely point out how Apple takes the lion's share of profit in a market or how buyers of low-end, non-Apple products are cheap and don't spend any money, or can't (because they are poor and some cheap low-end Android or crap PC is the best they can do).  And we wonder why so many non-Apple fans think so poorly of Apple fans...

When it comes to developer support, the reason we don't see more developers embrace the Mac is marketshare.  Mac marketshare has more or less climbed as high as it's going to climb as long as Apple stays the course.  Apple might very well be the fourth or fifth largest computer manufacturer, but when it comes to total marketshare, they are a drop in the bucket compared to Windows.  So most developers don't care - and never will care - about the Mac.

While Apple massively gouges its customers with a 40% profit margin, something Apple fans on these forums routinely celebrate (which I've always found very strange considering that we're the ones being gouged!), Dell and others sell you better hardware at sometimes half the price.  There's a thriving third party software market for Windows.  Those low-end PC customers must be buying lots of third party software, contrary to your suggestion, or the vast majority of developers wouldn't be supporting Windows.  If all the money was in Mac development, we'd be spoiled for choice in the Mac world.  Unfortunately, the opposite is true.  So I think you're pretty much flat wrong that low-end PCs don't translate into third party software sales.

With a ~40% profit margin and more cash in the bank than most governments, Apple could compete on price if they wanted to.  Like I said earlier, and have said many times before, I don't believe that Apple is particularly invested in the Mac these days.  Apple is clearly much more enthusiastic about iOS than macOS.  If Apple really wanted to grow Mac marketshare, there are many approaches it could take.  Instead, the Mac withers on the vine, with the occasional underwhelming, and increasingly overpriced, update for each model.  

matrix077 said:

robbyx said:

matrix077 said:

robbyx said:

matrix077 said:

ttollerton said:

This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict.  At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy.  He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.  

And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.  

I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values.   If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values.  They’re sales tactics.

So you propose Apple to get out of China market? How does that benefit Chinese consumers?

Who cares if it benefits the Chinese consumer?  Why does that even matter?  If you have values and principles, you live them. You don’t bend them to make a buck.  Like @ttollerton said, values are absolute.  If you don’t apply them universally, they aren’t values. 

Wait until you’re a CEO then preach (after investors kicking you out of course). 

Extreme idealists has no place in the world. It’s more destructive than constructive. 

Extreme idealists are the only reason anything happens. The rest of society never moves anything forward. They’re just crabs in a barrel. What do you think Jobs was, if not an extreme idealist, someone who lived his beliefs?  Very few people have the guts to live their truth. Cook is using “values” to sell products and it’s bullshit. I agree with you about being a CEO and having to answer to shareholders. I don’t necessarily disagree with Apple’s position on supporting the Chinese market either.  My problem is with the hypocrisy. If you profess to have values, you need to live them. Otherwise shut up and find a different way to sell your product. The way Cook and Apple use “values” as a sales tool is gross. 

You’re completely wrong. Extreme idealist is also an extremist, not unlike ISIS just at a different spectrum. What you described is an idealist who also has an understanding of a world around them but wants something better. When you lack an understanding of a world around you how can you contribute to it? You can’t. 

When you blindly say “Don’t do this” or “You have to do that” in absolute term without an understanding or simply not care about it you are a destructive force to a society rather than being helping. 

It’s not blind. That’s the whole point. You can’t profess to have values in one country that simply vanish in another. Then they’re not values. I respect Google a lot more than Apple when it comes to China. Google says they can’t live their values in China, so they don’t do business there. Apple and others compromise their “values” to serve the Chinese market and that’s nothing to respect. 

matrix077 said:

robbyx said:

matrix077 said:

ttollerton said:

This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict.  At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy.  He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.  

And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.  

I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values.   If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values.  They’re sales tactics.

So you propose Apple to get out of China market? How does that benefit Chinese consumers?

Who cares if it benefits the Chinese consumer?  Why does that even matter?  If you have values and principles, you live them. You don’t bend them to make a buck.  Like @ttollerton said, values are absolute.  If you don’t apply them universally, they aren’t values. 

Wait until you’re a CEO then preach (after investors kicking you out of course). 

Extreme idealists has no place in the world. It’s more destructive than constructive. 

Extreme idealists are the only reason anything happens. The rest of society never moves anything forward. They’re just crabs in a barrel. What do you think Jobs was, if not an extreme idealist, someone who lived his beliefs?  Very few people have the guts to live their truth. Cook is using “values” to sell products and it’s bullshit. I agree with you about being a CEO and having to answer to shareholders. I don’t necessarily disagree with Apple’s position on supporting the Chinese market either.  My problem is with the hypocrisy. If you profess to have values, you need to live them. Otherwise shut up and find a different way to sell your product. The way Cook and Apple use “values” as a sales tool is gross. 

matrix077 said:

ttollerton said:

This really is a rather dramatic and head scratching conflict.  At virtually every media event, Cook almost breaks into tears as he dramatically professes Apple’s core values around the right to privacy.  He goes so far as to fight the US government to access someone’s personal device.  

And yet, in China, a communist nation that oppresses individual rights, including privacy, Cook is more than willing to sway to the will of the oppressive government.  

I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values.   If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values.  They’re sales tactics.

So you propose Apple to get out of China market? How does that benefit Chinese consumers?

Who cares if it benefits the Chinese consumer?  Why does that even matter?  If you have values and principles, you live them. You don’t bend them to make a buck.  Like @ttollerton said, values are absolute.  If you don’t apply them universally, they aren’t values. 

ttollerton said:

I like Apple products, but I don’t want to hear about Apple’s values.   If they’re not universally applied, they’re not values.  They’re sales tactics.

Very well said.  And how, as a gay man, can he do business with countries that imprison and even kill people for their sexuality?  I’m not a Cook hater but this has always really bothered me about him.  He prattles on and on about values, but doesn’t live them.