DanielEran

arthurba said:

It needs some full-function API's.  Restricting the released API's to calls (VoIP) and maps makes their job easier - but it doesn't let app developers truly expand the scope of what Siri can do.

I'm sure what I'm asking for is difficult - but that's the Apple Engineer's job.

Expanding Siri to do more useful things should be the job of app developers - they just need a flexible API to do it with.

The fact I can't add something to my shopping list whilst handsfree/driving is very annoying.  

It's a trivial example - but there are 100 minor things I do with my phone every day, and 98 of them still require me to touch it to do them:
- shopping list
- check bank balance
- transfer funds
- find where my bus is (using the TripView app)
- find the next connecting bus (TripView)
- is there an accident ahead (LiveTraffic app)
- read the latest Facebook posts from close friends
- read a book (Kindle) or newspaper article (Kindle)
- read an InMail (linked in)
- open a camera (Nest)
- make a doctors appointment (HotDoc)
- note the time I put the baby to bed (Baby Tracker)
- note the time the baby woke up (Baby Tracker)
- note the quantity and time of medication (Baby Tracker)
etc. etc.

What can I do?
- set a timer
- text/SMS my wife

No way can Apple add all those features - but they can work on better API's so that developers can create the apps with those features.

I think the best example on how inflexible the Siri API is - is the HotDoc app and doctors appointments.  Siri can make a calendar appointment, but it's not flexible enough to handle a doctors appointment, because it needs some ability to select the doctor and restrict the appointments available based on available appointment slots and appointment durations (long or short).

It was a good 'show us you are at least thinking about it' API - but it needs a follow up to 'show us you are serious about it' API.

Siri's Intents allow it to pass recognized requests to an app. It's the job of that app to handle the information side and pass back parameters Siri can communicate to you. 

It would appear, for example, that any transit app could use ridesharing Intent to do what you want, there just aren't any that do that yet. Perhaps additional support needs to be added to the ridesharing Intel to expand its range of transit modes to include things like fixed location bike shares, trains, etc. In a world where third-party apps solve these kinds of features, there needs to be enough critical mass to support the development of such an app, and the ongoing maintenance of it. If built-in, basic Apple Maps Transit or a transit authority's own app are good enough, they might never work to add support for a Siri INtent. So it's not all on Apple and what it does with Siri.

Many of the "Skills" for Alexa are like the titles in any app store: a mess of frivolous stuff that claims to do something but isn't worth using. One of the points of the article is that this is never brought up when Siri critics simply point to a number of Skills, without actually identifying ones that are useful and missing on Siri. I tried to find some and they just didn't deliver anything reportable. 

Siri support for banking apps is supported by Payments Intents, and Siri's Note Taking Intent appears capable of doing what you request for the shopping list and Baby app, but the developer has to decide if its worth it. Apple is providing a massive addressable platform for Siri above 1 Billion devices. All the excitement around Alexa involves around 30-40 million devices, many sets of which are installed in different rooms of a single family. 

Your requests for Kindle, Nest etc are things you expect from third parties who do not support Apple's other platforms, including HomeKit. So it's not Siri's fault that those third parties aren't supporting Siri. Siri already provides Intents for messaging, HomeKit cameras, etc.

Developers who see more impetus to develop for Alexa than Siri are either interested in mining your voice data or just don't realize the difference in value between 1,000M and 40M. You should request Siri support from the app developers, rather than asking Apple to generically support "third parties" that it already built support APIs for.

canukstorm said:

"Siri’s development is one area where we need to watch closely from Apple in the post-Jobs era of Apple. There was a major concern that Apple would not be same, and their run on innovation would end. That certainly has not been the case, however, what I’m not sure we have seen is how Apple in the post Jobs era deals with failure or potentially impactful struggles to the companies future."

https://techpinions.com/apple-siri-and-dealing-with-failure/52484

"What do you anticipate WWDC 18 will introduce for Siri, Workflow, HomePod and Continuity?" => Given that the rumors point to iOS 12 / macOS 14 being a "Snow Leopard" type of release, I'm not expecting much this year.  

Given that Siri languished for many years under Eddy Cue's leadership (Federighi now being in charge of Siri) & how important Siri is to Apple's future, I am surprised he still around at Apple.

  The talk about Post Jobs seems to forget that when he passed, Apple was shipping iOS 5, iCloud was a hot mess, Maps was a year away from shipping with serious problems, Android looked credible in tablets and Windows Mobile was still around. 

It was well into the Post Jobs era that iOS 7 and the A7 shipped, that iCloud development was fixed and dramatically expanded, that Maps was made usable in most countries (enough to relegate Google Maps into a minor position on iOS) and where iPad crushed all tablets and no competition is left outside of Android placeholders shipping PC-like generic boxes with razor-thin margins. 

Also, Samsung's leadership is fresh out of jail and Google has experienced a wave of new managers. So the whole Jobs thing really needs to be put to bed.  

Keep in mind Bloomberg's Mark Gurman also said Apple Watch 2 would definately have a camera for FaceTime, and that this was a key, necessary feature for selling watches. It's not remotely news nor timely reporting that Apple is making its own silicion. Typical recycling of known facts and baseless speculation from an anynomous self-described expert sold as a Bloomberg "report."

gatorguy said:

SnickersMagoo said:

I seriously don't know how anyone actually installs anything from Google in their house.....with Google listening to their every word for marketing..... It bugs me that my Sony TV uses Android...

Other than someone posting silliness I wasn't planning on spending any time posting this thread... but your comment qualifies for a response.

Google isn't "listening to your every word for marketing" anymore than Siri is. Both are "listening" for a keyword wakeup on your device only. Only after you speak the keyphrase does your iPhone or Android phone begin sending your commands to a Google or an Apple server for processing. 

There's just so much FUD being tossed around about our Assistants, Siri, Google and Alexa and it's repeated so often that folks such as yourself believe it to be true. 

Now as for your specific Sony TV it may have tried "to enable a tracking service during the TV’s setup. It can be disabled inside the TV’s Help menu, under “Privacy Settings.” Doing so may disable some built-in recommendation features that rely on view tracking."

With smart tv's in general it's not Android or Google or Amazon that should cause any concern. There's zero evidence that they are listening for anything outside of a keyword wake-up if it's so equipped. But there have been cases where the manufacturer (ie Samsung IIRC) sets up the complementary software for "listening", Nilsson the TV survey guys have arrangements with certain companies (was Vizio one?) to install the ability to identify the programming you might be playing,  and apps with poorly disclosed functions that listen for background noises, TV/Movie sounds and such have been found in both Google Play and the App Store and from a couple of different companies tho they've been relatively rare. Outside stores are far more likely to have it embedded within some otherwise harmless app. So it's another great reason to stick with official app stores and avoid the 3rd party ones. 

It's not Android or iOS that you should be fearful of, it's whether the set manufacturer is trustworthy.

Everyone back as you were enjoying a DED editorial. I've no comment on it and I know many here look forward to them. 

Google Assistant (apparently) doesn't listen to audio all the time (unless there's a problem where Home is stuck listening, which Google called an unanticipated error and fixed). However, that's not true of Android as a platform. Apps on Android commonly request all kinds of access to hardware they don't need to function, and use this any way they like. Google doesn't police this. They can listen to the mic, turn on the camera, go through your contacts and upload all this to their own servers. Apple anticipated that developers would trying to do this, and established permissions where the user is asked to approve access to location, mic, camera, etc. 

On both platforms, users commonly give apps all the permissions they ask for, and can abuse those permissions once granted (as Facebook does). iOS makes this more obvious, and enables users to selectively turn off permissions per app and per service. But the fact remains that Android on its own--whether from Google or a version from anyone else--is set up to spy on users and is effectively hacked on arrival. It's wildly easy to spy on an Android user. It's much harder to install malware, key loggers and other crap on iOS, and to listen to users you have to get purposely installed and approved by the user. It's just too easy on Android, even for people who are making an effort not to be tracked, recorded and surveilled by their apps. There are lots of Android products that ship with malware installed by default, clearly on purpose. This is a big problem, whether or not you want it to be. The problem is definitely larger with sketchy apps and hardware vendors, but Android enables them. 

1) Is HomePod Siri controlled? Yes.

2) Does Siri tell jokes? Yes.

3) Are there products that are Alexa controlled and speakers that work with the Echo and other Alexa-capable devices that will sound better than the HomePod? Based on the size and stated specs, that seems like a certainty.

4) You know Amazon lets anyone license Alexa for pretty much any system they wish, right?

Good mention about Alexa being used for other high-end audio products voice actions and not just Amazon's own. Google is doing the same with 3rd party availability tho I hadn't paid much attention to that until your Alexa mention. 

FWIW Apple's beam-forming for the Home Pod is called TruePlay by Sonos and marketed as Smart Sound by Google. There will be a lot of comparisons with Sonos One smart speaker and Google Max by the time Home Pod is eventually available for sale (and guesses here the delay is it's to improve Siri capabilities /home control counter to what DED would presumably think)

False. Smart Sound is Google's brand for changing the volume to ambient sounds. It and Sonos TruePlay adapt sound to the room, but are not on the same level as what Apple is doing with its A6 powered HW. But really, if Google could sell hardware it would be, wouldn't it? Or is it just "showing other companies how to do things" again? Really impressive how you run those goalposts around.