MacBAir

gmgravytrain said:

It would seem entirely natural for Apple to lose smartphone market share now that there are poorer nations and poorer consumers buying smartphones. In theory, Apple could sell just as many iPhones each quarter and still keep losing market share to cheaper Android smartphones. How does that seriously hurt Apple? Without seeing those other companies' profitability you can't tell whether those rival companies' business model is sustainable for a long period of time. I'm sure Hyundai or Toyota are gaining vehicle market share over Mercedes-Benz but does that really hurt Mercedes-Benz? Does that indicate that Mercedes-Benz is a doomed company because they sell far fewer vehicles than those other two companies mentioned?

For a company like Apple to have small market share and yet make such large profits should be praiseworthy but yet it's always Apple said to be doomed and not those smaller rival companies. There has to be more than just the simple market share metric to tell whether a company is doing well or not. And basing market share on shipments seems dishonest. How many smartphones might be just sitting in inventory or on shelves and not being sold? I don't doubt the numbers but without a thorough explanation those numbers are rather useless in indicating Apple's health as a company. I always remember Nokia having huge global market share but that still wasn't enough to keep the company from collapsing. I would think keeping the financial books in the black is far more important than market share but maybe I'm wrong.

I would think over time these Android smartphone companies that are having such huge market share gains now will also suffer sales losses at some point as the smartphone market becomes even more saturated.  Some other companies will come along and undercut their pricing.  Everyone said Xiaomi was unbeatable but that's not the case.  It's hard to tell with accuracy what the future will offer for any company.  Analysts think they have a formula for predicting a company's success or failure but I think that's BS.  Nothing is set in stone.  It makes sense to me consumers living in China or India can't afford iPhones but Apple is still selling iPhones to consumers who can afford them.  Those consumers won't necessarily jump platforms to buy a cheaper smartphone.  Only time will tell.

Apple is selling less phones. Apple is selling less iPads. Apple is selling less macs. Apple is making less money. An offering from other OEM, like the s7, costs the same but is much superior because it has a camera superior on every metric, screen superior on every metric, waterproof, has fast charging, looks better, much better battery life, has a lot more base storage so it isn't a pathetic base offering and so on.

Costumers are fed up with Apple.

sog35 said:

AI_lias said:

I myself am disappointed that they did not change the design to make it less slippery. I mean, it's practically unusable without a case. Who cares about the antenna lines (which were horrible to begin with [if anyone other than Apple would have used those antenna lines you would not hear the end of it on this forum]) if you need to put it in a case anyway. Slippery as a fish. Put some sharp edges back on it, like a slab phone had. Unfortunately, I'm afraid even next year's glass phone will be just as slippery, and have glass on both sides.

any kind of redesign would have been nice. Even if it was worse than the 6 design at least it would look different and people would be able to tell that its a new iPhone.

Now if you buy an iPhone7, people won't even be able to tell it isn't a 3 year old phone. And yes, stupid and vain things like that matter.

The only explanation is that next's years phone will be a massive change. And Apple does not want to use a new shell for only one year (iPhone7). So they use the same shell for 3 years and then come out with a new shell next year.  IMO, that is a massive risk in the short term, but they should recover with iPhone8.

But this is the same type of slow action that Apple showed when they did bring out a bigger iPhone along with the iPhone5s.  That allowed Samsung to get a massive foothold in the market. Looks like Apple is making the same mistake again with not updating the design for THREE YEARS. UGH.

While I'm certain that it might matter for a minority, that's not the issue at hand.

The issue at hand is keep trying to squeeze as much money per device as they can, at all costs. Technology be damned. Growth be damned. Being years behind on screen and camera tech be damned. Being years behind on useful features like waterproofing and fast charging be damned.

Samsung seems to have no problem into selling a product with much higher base storage, superior screen on every metric, great design, great battery life and fast charging, waterproofing, superior camera on every metric... And still profit like madman from it.

Only Apple. Only Apple needs to keep artificially destroying the experience (8 out of 10 iPhone users with 16 GB...) in order to squeeze as much as they can.
And here they are, trying to squeeze even more from the suppliers instead of using that amount of money to provide a superior product.

What will happen is that their greed will put them at the mercy of suppliers, instead of their success putting suppliers at their mercy. Yearly profits dropping like a stone should be enough... should.

sog35 said:

MacBAir said:

Does this mean that you haven't kept up with the news and have absolutely no idea of what your are talking about? Today, Apple is just a bit more successful than Samsung at profiting from phones. And while Samsung Mobile is exploding in profit growth (Making Samsung Electronics almost as profitable as Apple on the last quarter) Apple is going down on the double digits.

Oh stop with your absolute BULLSHIT.

Samsung's mobile division isn't making close to Apple's earnings.

Samsung Mobile only made $3.8 billion in operating profit last quarter (its the IM division on the chart)
http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/ir/ireventpresentations/earningsrelease/downloads/2012/20160728_conference_eng.pdf

Apple made over $10 billion in operating profit last quarter. And this is Apple's slowest quarter. 
http://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AAPL/financials?p=AAPL

In the holiday quarter Apple will make almost $25 billion in operating profit.

Last quarter Apple's profits were 165% higher than Samsung. That isn't a bit more successful. THAT'S WAY MORE SUCCESSFUL. AND THAT'S WHY APPLE IS WORTH 2X MORE THAN SAMSUNG RIGHT NOW.

Maybe you should read slower.

Samsung Mobile is growing at a fast pace, and they made 3.8 B$ on operating profit. The responsible? S7. How much did Apple made from iPhones? And what is the tendency here? The tendency is for Apple to drop YoY in the double digits. What is Samsung's Mobile tendency? Growth.

In fact, dropping in net profit and dropping sales of all of their products is Apple's tendency for quarters to come. Fact. Can you dispute that?

Samsung Eletronics, like I correctly said, is growing quickly and will soon surpass Apple even on the net profits department, while also offering better products. They are 2 B$ away (max) to surpass Apple's net profit, while growing fast and Apple declining.

I apologize for thinking that having a better screen on every metric, better camera on every metric, better connectivity on every metric, useful features like fast charging and waterproofing, 64 GB of base storage makes the S7 and Note 7 a far better phone than the iPhone, at least for 9 out of 10 costumers. Yeah, Samsung doesn't need 60% net profit per device sold to be successful. For some strange reason, Apple thinks they do.

Yeah, we could talk about privacy and such, but that has nothing to do with offering 16 GB offerings or computers with TN panels or 5400 rpm hard drives. Besides, 9 out of 10 smartphone users use google services and/or Facebook anyway.

Obviously Apple isn't in any trouble, yet. However, they could be, soon.

Why? It's all a matter of scale. Currently for each iPhone sold there's 5 Androids getting the hands of the population. A basic Android device is an amazing product, not crap.
What happens is even if the majority of those users barely use their phones for anything other than ocasional browsing, email, facebook and some free games, they are the valuable users of tomorrow.

Besides, let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the average cheap Android phone doesn't satisfy the needs of the average population, even the average iOS user. The iPhone is overkill for the vast majority of buyers, that's why the 16GB version still sells. 7 or 8 out of 10 iPhones being sold all have 16 GB of storage. That says a lot about Apple and users overall.

There's a balance here. Obviously Apple's problems aren't related with engineering talent and innovation:
- The team that made their storage solutions are the best, but the issue with the company are the bean counters that think that 16 GB is good enough on a flagship.

So, iPhone sales are dropping in the double digits. Fact.
Also, iPad sales are still dropping. Fact.
And Mac sales are also dropping. Fact.

It's my opinion (worthless) that the main reason for this is that devices are lasting longer. That is great, because it adds value to them. If an user sees value, they will come back. However, 7 or 8 out of those iOS users have less than 32 GB on their devices. That's how many frustrating users? Will they come back? I know my position, and I know that my position by itself is worthless. But I read. I see. I watch. I hear. People are pissed off and frustrated. People realized that, more than ever, the obvious money-grabs are impacting the experience.

So, as companies find ways to profit from all users and the Android ecosystem and userbase just keeps growing exponentially faster than iOS, it may come to a point when iOS isn't first class citizen. When that happens, and without growth, there's no turning back. It already is a one horse race in the vast majority of markets.

Again, let's hope people at Apple aren't foolish to think that anyone buying a 200$ Moto G with a Micro-SD card will be buying crap, because if they do, they are finished soon.

As I see it, there's only one way to make iOS a pillar:
- Sacrifice some of the aura (that, at this point, shouldn't exist);
- Stop being pathetic bean counters so high end sales don't suffer (Why so little RAM? What about storage? What about TN panels on Airs? What about non-SSD options on Macs? What about not updating your machines, even if the improvements are minor?);
- Apologize, beg, crawl and target the pro and edu market again.
- Actually focus on the 80 % of the population that doesn't buy any Apple product.

The first 3 will decide if Apple is a valuable company for decades to come, but the last one will keep being more than a niche-company.
Like it or not, those 80% will always matter more and be more relevant than the 20%.

Also:
-Remember when Apple used to actually be aggressive and corner the market on key components?
- Remember when Apple was willing to pay intel to be first in line to receive new processors, because their users were worth it?
- Remember when Apple used to introduce insane products that were used to bring tech prices down so they could adapt them and implement them trough the product line?
- Remember when Apple pushed forward on high PPI screens, storage sizes on mobile and so on?

Now it's the opposite. It's all about profit margin per device today, at all costs. And it is biting them in the ass. It's hurting their overall profits TODAY because their sales are dropping like a stone. And their sales are also dropping because most of their products is subpar and inferior.

Overall, an Air is subpar. A 16 GB iPhone is subpar. A 1 yo 13" rMBP is subpar. a 2YO 15" rMBP is subpar. Any Mac with a HDD is trash. Any 3 YO nMP is subpar. What are they investing on? They dumped Aperture, iWeb, iWork is subpar compared with 09 version. There's almost no pro Mac market yet.

90% of their products are subpar, at this time.

And all of those talking about they making the majority of profits... Not anymore. And their key competitors (Samsung Electronics, Google, Facebook, MS) are only getting more successful. Heck, Samsung Mobile profits are 3 or 4 quarters away to surpass Apple's iPhone. Samsung Electronics is already close to Apple overall.

http://bgr.com/2016/07/07/samsung-earnings-q2-2016-pre-announcement/

And after this... They released the Phone that is being praised by pretty much any respectable news publication as the best big phone on the market, if not the best phone ever. Why? Samsung learned, experimented and wasn't pathetically conservative. 64 GB standard. Useful features like waterproof. A top Notch screen superior on every metric. Same for camera. They have no issues producing dozens of millions of them.

But can they make 60 % net profit per each note? No, but it's paying off alright and Apple is the one with their profits going down.

Value. Scale. Balance.

macseeker said:

Yeah, Apple having centers around the world. Wonder how Cook likes his dog meat. He should think of the US first. I wonder what type of software (spy) traps will be in the apps developed from Vietnam. Not happy at the moment.

Is there any other country on the planet with more spies, a more corrupt government, that started as many wars, that destroyed as many democracies, as the US?