DuhSesame

fastasleep said:

DuhSesame said:

Rayz2016 said:

randominternetperson said:

MplsP said:

AppleInsider said:

"[The Butterfly keyboard] had some things it did really well," Schiller told CNET, "like creating a much more stable key platform. It felt more flat and firm under your finger - some people really like that, but other people weren't really happy with that."

"We got sort of a mixed reaction," he continued. "We had some quality issues we had to work on. “

That sure seems like corporate-speak for “the reliability sucked and people hated the keyboard!”

It’s actually a pretty surprising statement/admission. It’s rare you even get that much from any company, let alone Apple. Good to know they got the message, though.

Did you even read what you quoted. Many, many people (myself included) really like the stability and travel of the butterfly keyboard and have never had a problem with it. Some people don’t like the feel of it, so Apple decided to address their complaints (without throwing out the baby with the bath water.)

Personally, I find it odd that they shrunk the left and right arrow keys. Who was asking for that (although the AI video calls it out as an improvement)?  At least they didn’t copy Dell’s terrible design. The laptop I (have to) use at work has a half-sized page up above the left arrow (and page down above the right arrow). That is a bigger sin than anything Apple did with their keyboards. 

Apple got two things wrong with the keyboard:

Not everyone can touch type. 
Not everyone keeps their work area clean. 

Fastest typing experience I’ve ever had, and definitely the most comfortable. Probably due to neutral wrist positioning which is down to Apple’s “obsession with thinness.”

But the most interesting thing here is that they changed the mechanism, but didn’t increase the travel. 

The training of the user base continues …

Technically it's about 0.2mm.  The butterfly IIRC is 0.8mm.

I think Gruber said the new one is 1mm and the butterfly is .5mm.

I like my 2018, but if this one is quieter and more reliable (I do have the occasional letter doubling, very seldom though), then I"m all for it. Mostly if it shuts everyone up about the keyboards.

I kinda guessed it would be Magic Keyboard as the most conservative solution.  Just move the Magic Keyboard on the MacBook Pro and there you go.  I know one of my "friends" will be happy as he said that keyboard is the best ever.

wizard69 said:

anantksundaram said:

SpamSandwich said:

DuhSesame said:

SpamSandwich said:

Apple’s insular design process does them no favors when it comes to things like keyboards and mice (mouses?).

Better to get outside opinions from real-world users than to follow a design decision path to an expensive dead end.

Surprising you've turned 180 degrees, don't let your negative emotions taking over.

Explain?

Over the history of the company, their habit of developing in secret and not testing with outsiders has led to some really bad choices.

I couldn't agree more. The new 2106+ MBP -- I own the 2018 version -- is one of the worst designed products from Apple. Ever. Especially for what is cost. Don't get me started on why.

For me, it ranks right up there with the AppleTV remote and the hockey-puck mouse. I will get rid of it, take my lumps, and move on to the new MBP. But I am going to wait a month or so and wait to hear what the actual user experience is, i.e., that it's a significant improvement (which shouldn't be too hard). Burnt once, twice shy.

I was rather disappointed with my 2017 MBP and the ratter terrible service at the local Apple store.  This caused me to buy a HP to run Linux as my primary system.  Sometimes I feel driven to get back into a Mac but I really have that negative feeling that hasn’t washed away yet.    Fortunately I’m in no hurry so I can wait for feedback on these machines.     It does look like they have taken the new machines design a bit more seriously this time around.  For years now they have been phoning in MBP models.  

If he's disappointed about ports or the system won't run at 100%, chances are most likely he won't be satisfied with the 16" either.

No laptop these days could run 100%.

wizard69 said:

Wow what a bitch session.   

I can understand both sides of the ports issue.  At work we keep a couple of old laptops around because of ports and operating systems compatibility.  In the end though you really need to leave the old stuff behind and focus on modern features for your primary work machine.   At least with modern systems the horrors of 99 different RS232 cables is gone.  

I need to see what is being offered here but my initial review indicates that Apple might actually be taking Mac hardware seriously these days.  Simple things like the escape key are huge if you make use of VM’s and alternative operating systems.  One of my past reasons to go the Mac route was in fact the ability to run those VM’s and this revision looks like a winner in that regard.  

Right now I’m most impressed with the GPU upgrade.   A good GPU does much to extend the life of a laptop.   Also Apple seems to have pulled head from ass over base RAM and SSD sizes. Lots of other nice improvements too.  

Will this machine be good enough to get me to start buying Macs again?    That is very hard to say but it will not be this year anyways.   I’d like too see how the “13 MBP” gets revved.  

It's unfair when most complaints won't even take new ports seriously.  Many of their situations have simple workarounds yet they refuse to accept that.  They got their laptops yet they won't use it to the fullest potential, then makes the rest of us miserable.

Mike Wuerthele said:

freethinking said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

freethinking said:

sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.

No adapter required. $18.

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-USB-C-Supporting-Black/dp/B073H9RG9T/

you are welcome to use my dell when you rock up to a presentation with the "adapter" cable you linked to, because what you really need is the female side. 9 of 10 times you cant get to the projector. besides linking to an "adapter" cable to support your claim no adapter is required is weird.  

To counter your apocrypha, I have some of my own. Just in 2019, I have done many, many presentations with a cable (not adapter) identical to this one, and every single time I've been able to get to said projector.

Sure, if you have some kind of strange setup with a hardwired HDMI connector and no access to the projector, then you may need an adapter, and it is absolutely on the presenter to make sure you have the tools you need to get the job done, so I wouldn't need to use your Dell anyway.

And, in older conference rooms, your HDMI out on your Dell may need a DVI adapter or HDMI to DVI cable which is still not an adapter -- the abject horror.

Mike, I suggest AI staffs do an ultimate guide about how to prepare for all Type-C environments.  A couple of my recommendations:

USB-A OTG adapters:


Beware that there are fake ones or false advertisements, some shorter ones can only do USB 2.0.

It can be used as a cap for your Type-A flash drives, or another end plug on your male cable.

2.0 is great for low-speed drives and peripherals like RS-232 or external optical drive, while 3.0 is essential for faster drives.  I'll say 2.0 will be more useful if you have tons of peripherals.  3.0 is bulky where 2.0 can be really slim.





depends on how slim they are, you might be able to fit two drives side-by-side.  All of them allowed another Type-C cable at least.

Other recommendations including those MagSafe replacements, but having a Type-C at the end.  The smaller and more compact, the better.




You guys should also write about how to make your Type-C environment neat and clean, as well as how to handle most of the situations at work (like using a projector).  This will be much more useful as it will save tons of worthless arguments in the future.

Thunderbolt 3 is fast and way more powerful so it's quite wasteful when you only use it for charging.  If you want to set up a small workstation, it would be nice to use one port for all -- DP daisy chain, 100W Power supply, and eGPU.

Rayz2016 said:

randominternetperson said:

MplsP said:

AppleInsider said:

"[The Butterfly keyboard] had some things it did really well," Schiller told CNET, "like creating a much more stable key platform. It felt more flat and firm under your finger - some people really like that, but other people weren't really happy with that."

"We got sort of a mixed reaction," he continued. "We had some quality issues we had to work on. “

That sure seems like corporate-speak for “the reliability sucked and people hated the keyboard!”

It’s actually a pretty surprising statement/admission. It’s rare you even get that much from any company, let alone Apple. Good to know they got the message, though.

Did you even read what you quoted. Many, many people (myself included) really like the stability and travel of the butterfly keyboard and have never had a problem with it. Some people don’t like the feel of it, so Apple decided to address their complaints (without throwing out the baby with the bath water.)

Personally, I find it odd that they shrunk the left and right arrow keys. Who was asking for that (although the AI video calls it out as an improvement)?  At least they didn’t copy Dell’s terrible design. The laptop I (have to) use at work has a half-sized page up above the left arrow (and page down above the right arrow). That is a bigger sin than anything Apple did with their keyboards. 

Apple got two things wrong with the keyboard:

Not everyone can touch type. 
Not everyone keeps their work area clean. 

Fastest typing experience I’ve ever had, and definitely the most comfortable. Probably due to neutral wrist positioning which is down to Apple’s “obsession with thinness.”

But the most interesting thing here is that they changed the mechanism, but didn’t increase the travel. 

The training of the user base continues …

Technically it's about 0.2mm.  The butterfly IIRC is 0.8mm.