auxio

libertymatters said:

It is sick to watch so many 'progressives' defend a large corporations' profits and power. 

Last point: what's sick is to see people call themselves "libertarians" and who would be vehemently opposed to any sort of personal monitoring done by governments (ala 1984), yet who seem to have no issues with the exact same personal monitoring being done by corporations on your phone without your consent.

libertymatters said:

To the sky is falling fear mongers about security, question, is the Mac so unsafe to use? Do you really want to make that argument?

Apple has introduced a number of security measures on Mac too, like forcing apps to be notarized by Apple (checked every time they're run), which I've seen a number of developers complain about the exact same way you are because they now have to pay for an Apple developer account to notarize their apps. Same story: big, bad Apple is trying to profit from selling developer accounts.

And yes, using a Mac is a bit concerning these days. For example, I dabble in electronic music production using a couple of apps (Ableton Live, Serum, etc). When I was browsing Reddit in Safari the other day, suddenly I got a recommendation to join the Ableton and Serum discussion groups. Somehow Reddit was getting information about what I'm doing in other apps, and now it's left me wondering what other information they're able to get ahold of. I'd imagine there are a lot more information siphoning loopholes to exploit on macOS due to most apps not being sandboxed from each other the way they are on iOS.

libertymatters said:

The fanboyism here never disappoints. I've been on the Apple train since the mid 90s.  Let's call a spade a spade though, Apple dictating to you what can and cannot be on your iPhone is authoritarianism run amok.  Today they are not banning things you care about, but what about when they do?  It is going to happen.  What ground will you have to stand on then?  We would have never tolerated this heavy handedness in the 90s or even early 2000s.  We should not tolerate it today.  Governments and corporations, run by western oligarchs, are out of control censoring to maintain their control, rule, and profits.  People across the political spectrum should be very alarmed by this.  It is very  bad for the people.

To the sky is falling fear mongers about security, question, is the Mac so unsafe to use? Do you really want to make that argument? I am arguing for the exact same security model that keeps the Mac safe be applied to iOS and iPadOS.  There really is no excuse not to do so other than power and money.  If you're opposed to it you have to concede the Mac is unsafe.  It is sick to watch so many 'progressives' defend a large corporations' profits and power. 

As someone who looks at the big picture of money, control, and power (and has protested against real world problems like human exploitation by corporations and governments) my biggest fear these days certainly isn't with Apple locking down their devices (as they've always done). My biggest fear is the corporations and large organizations who have the money and motivation to manipulate public viewpoints via social media for their own personal gain/power.

And I believe that's exactly what's happening here. The big shift to companies profiting from information (i.e. all the investment in AI) has those companies looking to profit from knowing everything you're doing. And knowing what people do on their iPhones all day would be hugely lucrative. So much so that, investing in targeted social media campaigns trying to convince people that Apple is limiting their personal freedom (advancing their true agenda, which is to force Apple to remove privacy controls) would certainly be worth it.

The reality is that people are free to buy a different phone, just as they were free to buy a PC instead of a Mac before mobile phones were mainstream. Nothing has changed in that regard. The only thing that's changed now is, with the vast majority of people having always connected/always on devices in their pocket, the ability to know everything people do and get inside their heads for personal gain/power is a temptation many big companies (and governments) can't resist.

darelrex said:

caladanian said:

What has trust to do with it? Either you follow the rules within the laws or not. You can’t distrust preventively without them making a mistake with their new developer account – after all I can understand. 

Epic Games blatantly violated its existing and agree-to contractual terms on 2020-08-13, against both Apple and also Google. That pretty much ruins their trustworthiness, right there. Getting a new developer account doesn't magically reset Sweeney's trustworthiness.

Was just about to post the same. People seem to have the memory of a hamster these days.

CheeseFreeze said:

libertymatters said:

A maze of red tape to make it prohibitive.  An alternative app store on macOS requires no interaction or input from Apple at all.  An example is MacPorts.  The real answer here is customers demanding app freedom on iOS and iPadOS from Apple and voting with their dollars if Apple doesn't deliver.  The same app freedoms should exist on iOS/iPadOS as has existed on macOS since 1984: 'sideloading' allowed.  The very term 'sideloading' is itself a loaded term that presumes an authority that Apple doesn't have, control of YOUR device.  It is your device not Apple's.  You should be able to load on it whatever app you darn well please.   That is still true on the Mac.  It should be true for iPhones too.

Well said and good observation around the term “side loading”, which by itself is a propaganda term. It’s really simply “downloading”.

As long as the operating system has the necessary protections to “sandbox” security on a per app-level and the app not having the ability to touch things like the kernel or system level services, it’s perfectly fine to place the responsibility in the user’s hands when it comes to downloading from other sources.

The snarky, somewhat juvenile comments from “Chasm” feel like fanboyism, defending a large corporation who has been actively lobbying a false narrative of security vs exploits, but is really only interested in two things: control and profits.
It reduces what can be a mature dialogue to personal attacks, and this keeps happening on this forum.
It is just a matter of time before these rules become the new standard. EU is considered a perfect pilot for the US and other territories. 

The snarky narrative being delivered by tech elitists just proves the same story which has been around since the advent of the personal computer: if you don't know as much about technology as I do, too bad, you shouldn't be using devices and deserve whatever problems you get.

Honestly, why do you need to force your personal worldview on everyone? You want a phone which you're free to hack to your heart's content? There are plenty of Linux based phones which give you all the freedom you want. Apple is designing phones for the average person who doesn't know or care about the intimate details of technology, and just wants something which is easy to use and protects them when they may accidentally do something they shouldn't because they don't know why they shouldn't.

In regard to Mac vs iPhone, the big difference between a computer and a phone is that there is a lot more personal information on a phone than there is a computer. Also, a phone is almost always connected to the internet, whereas a computer tends to only connect sporadically (talking about computers as used by the average person, not an enthusiast). Those two things make a phone a much more lucrative target for scammers and thieves. And why Apple goes to great lengths to keep the average person protected, even if they might unwittingly do things which the tech elite consider to be obvious and stupid. Because not everyone has the same interest in/aptitude for technology, nor should they need to.

When I look at all the shady things modern tech companies do behind the scenes (data harvesting, using human psychology to addict people to social media, using bots to push an agenda, etc), I honestly question the motivation of the tech elitist "freedom fighters" and wonder if they're actually just trying to find more ways to scam the average person for profit.