VRing

macxpress said:

VRing said:

macxpress said:

randominternetperson said:

Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this?  $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax."  It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc.  Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).

Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.

Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.

What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.

Apple iMac Pro ($5000)

Intel Xeon (8 core / 16 thread)
32 GB DDR4-2666 ECC
1TB SSD
Radeon Pro Vega 56 - 8 GB HBM2

DIY PC ($3090 - everything except for a monitor, keyboard, mouse and OS)

AMD Threadripper 1950X (16 core / 32 thread)
32 GB DDR4-2133 ECC 
1TB Samsung 960 EVO
Radeon Vega Frontier Edition (Vega 64) - 16 GB HBM2

pcpartpicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NGV9sJ

The DIY build has a better CPU and GPU than the iMac Pro.

By the time the iMac Pro launches, there will be even more price drops and other new products only a month or so away (look to CES).

Hahaha...try again! 

This is the typical bullshit response. Its no where near an actual comparison. You're forgetting most Professionals don't want to fuck around with finding the parts, making sure they're all compatible, building the PC, installing the OS and all of the drivers, supporting their own PC when issues arise, etc. They just want to take the damn thing out of the box, install the software they need, migrate files if necessary and be on their way. When something goes wrong they have full support from Apple. Good luck with that on your build where you have to call individual manufacturers to get...well some kind of support for it. 

You left out a display which is a critical component to your build as its not going to be cheap to find a compatible display. You left out Thunderbolt 3 and if you don't think thats a big deal then you're completely full of shit. Its not running macOS which can be critical for a lot of Professionals. 

Its more than just the sum of the parts...its the experience, the support, etc. You can't PC part pick that...

StrangeDays said:

VRing said:

macxpress said:

randominternetperson said:

Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this?  $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax."  It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc.  Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).

Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.

Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.

What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.

Apple iMac Pro ($5000)

Intel Xeon (8 core / 16 thread)
32 GB DDR4-2666 ECC
1TB SSD
Radeon Pro Vega 56 - 8 GB HBM2

DIY PC ($3090 - everything except for a monitor, keyboard, mouse and OS)

AMD Threadripper 1950X (16 core / 32 thread)
32 GB DDR4-2133 ECC 
1TB Samsung 960 EVO
Radeon Vega Frontier Edition (Vega 64) - 16 GB HBM2

pcpartpicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NGV9sJ

The DIY build has a better CPU and GPU than the iMac Pro.

By the time the iMac Pro launches, there will be even more price drops and other new products only a month or so away (look to CES).

Nice try but you’re missing major components, your time, a warranty from a single provider, and excellent support. 

Heres another PCpartPicker estimate from june which included a monitor:

• 
  

Total: $4686.71

http://www.pcgamer.com/apples-new-imac-pro-costs-5000-but-is-it-overpriced/


...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.

StrangeDays said:

VRing said:

foggyhill said:

VRing said:

baederboy said:

VRing said:

AppleInsider said:

Huawei and fellow Chinese phonemakers Oppo and Xiaomi are expected to adopt 3D sensors on upcoming 2018 models, following in the footsteps of the iPhone X's TrueDepth camera. 

Huawei already announced their system a week or so back, but it's not being used in the V10 (http://winfuture.de/news,100794.html).


It looks rather similar to Apple's system, no surprise there. It can capture 300,000 points in under 10 seconds (iPhone X does 30,000 points, but in a shorter amount of time). Huawei also claims their system will unlock in 0.4 seconds.

If it works as well as they claim, and that's an "if", then it would seem they're able to catch up to the hardware in a pretty short amount of time. Huawei also has a Neural Processing Unit as part of their Kirin 970 that's considerably more powerful than Apple's Neural Engine in the A11 Bionic, so all that remains is the software.

Can you provide me with a reference that the Kirin 970 neural processing unit is considerably more powerful than Apples Neural Engine?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11804/huawei-shows-unannounced-kirin-970-at-ifa-2017-dedicated-neural-processing-unit

Kirin 970's NPU offers 1.92 trillion operations per second, Apple's Neural Engine offers 600 billion operations per second. For further comparison, both are well behind Google's PVC in the Pixel 2 / Pixel 2 XL which offers 3 trillion operations per second.

Completely useless self defined spec with no standardization, but go on buddy spit it out if it makes you feel better.

And as for insults, I insult just trolls who think parking here at Appleinsider will "teach us" and yeah you're not the first here to do that, Googlehead's been there spitting out useless stats and distorsions longer than you.

It's not useless. Through quantization you can use an 8-bit integer in a neural network prediction while maintaining useful accuracy. On that basis, it's very straight forward to compare.

Remember, honey, not vinegar.

Nah it’s just specs. Specs is specs. Specs aren’t the only thing that matter, especially when the total experience is worse off. The A11 specs are impressive because it’s best in class and the iOS experience is better than the knockoffs. The “neural” spec you’ve cited is rather meaningless because the knockoff experience is inferior to iOS. 

foggyhill said:

VRing said:

baederboy said:

VRing said:

AppleInsider said:

Huawei and fellow Chinese phonemakers Oppo and Xiaomi are expected to adopt 3D sensors on upcoming 2018 models, following in the footsteps of the iPhone X's TrueDepth camera. 

Huawei already announced their system a week or so back, but it's not being used in the V10 (http://winfuture.de/news,100794.html).


It looks rather similar to Apple's system, no surprise there. It can capture 300,000 points in under 10 seconds (iPhone X does 30,000 points, but in a shorter amount of time). Huawei also claims their system will unlock in 0.4 seconds.

If it works as well as they claim, and that's an "if", then it would seem they're able to catch up to the hardware in a pretty short amount of time. Huawei also has a Neural Processing Unit as part of their Kirin 970 that's considerably more powerful than Apple's Neural Engine in the A11 Bionic, so all that remains is the software.

Can you provide me with a reference that the Kirin 970 neural processing unit is considerably more powerful than Apples Neural Engine?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11804/huawei-shows-unannounced-kirin-970-at-ifa-2017-dedicated-neural-processing-unit

Kirin 970's NPU offers 1.92 trillion operations per second, Apple's Neural Engine offers 600 billion operations per second. For further comparison, both are well behind Google's PVC in the Pixel 2 / Pixel 2 XL which offers 3 trillion operations per second.

Completely useless self defined spec with no standardization, but go on buddy spit it out if it makes you feel better.

And as for insults, I insult just trolls who think parking here at Appleinsider will "teach us" and yeah you're not the first here to do that, Googlehead's been there spitting out useless stats and distorsions longer than you.