microbe

davidw said:

Evanston212 said:

these arbitrary decisions such as 5th amendment protecting your face but not your deadbolt key need to be decided.   People's rights shouldn't be decided on a whim or case by case basis.  Rules should be more defined.  We can hold your house keys against you but not your actual face, but maybe a good picture of your face we can use or we'll 3D print a composite of your face from the pic and use that...h'

The 5th Amendment do not protect your face or your fingerprint. They are treated the same as the key to your deadbolt. The government, with a search warrant, can get the key to your deadbolt from your landlord or hire a locksmith. Just as they can take a mug shot of your face or get your fingerprint when charged with a crime and booked. 

However, unlike having the key to a deadbolt, which anyone can use to unlock your door and there's no need to force you to do it, having a picture of your face or an ink copy of your fingerprint will not unlock your iPhone. The real question is, can you be forced to unlock your own phone, knowing that what's in it will incriminate you in a crime. Where as the government don't need you to unlock your deadbolt once they have the key, they still need you to unlock your phone, by placing the your correct finger/thumb  on the sensor or looking into your phone with the right facial expression. 

So far, it seems with several court rulings, that what ever is required to unlock your phone, be it your fingerprint, face or pass code, is not protected by the 5th, as it is not considered self incrimination to unlock your phone, even if you know that there is evidence in your phone, that may be used against you. And not doing so can get you tossed in jail on a contempt of court charge. 

However, with a pass code, the government can not force you reveal your pass code, if you simply tell them ... "I forgot". The government can still initially toss you in jail for not unlocking your phone but eventually they have to ask ....... what if you actually did forget your pass code? How can they prove that you didn't forget? It is not impossible nor  improbable, that someone might forget their pass code.

Now if you clearly tell the courts that you know your pass code but you're not going to unlock your phone, then theoretically, the courts can toss you in jail for contempt, until you unlock your phone or until they found some other way to get the information from it and they no longer need the pass code from you.