dt17

avon b7 said:

dt17 said:

No. If you want to reduce things to 'basically' then 'basically' Huawei is ahead of Apple in the key areas I mentioned and we have come back to my main point.

Supercharge is not 'basic battery tech'. If it were basic, Apple and others would be using it. It is one of the fastest (there are others but Apple isn't in that group) charging technologies on the handset market.

All lithium ion batteries degrade. I said degradation wasn't a problem, not that they didn't degrade. I said that because you claimed/implied the heat generated by fast charging would reduce the lifespan of the battery with regards to regular charging. That is not the case. The video shows how (the aptly) named Supercharge Control Protocol controls heat buildup. However, on the subject of degradation, Huawei managed to double the lifespan of its lithium ion batteries a couple of years ago AND add 10 degrees to the maximum operating temperature. That particular advance hasn't been applied fully to handsets yet.

https://www.graphene-info.com/huawei-introduces-new-high-temperature-li-ion-batteries-use-graphene-reduce-operation-temperature

Also Huawei uses AI to manage battery performance. The size of the battery is to get people through the day with heavy use. There are rumours that even Apple will increase battery size by up to 25% this year. There will be a reason for that and it will be the same as for everyone else.

Like I said earlier, Specs aren't the be all and end all but some specs are vital. Moreso in what you are debating. So when someone stands a long way off a subject and wants to zoom (everybody does at some point, and quite often), x2 will not get you very far. A year ago Huawei had x3 and it made a difference. Now it stands at x5. That is a huge difference. It can even go to x10 with virtually lossless quality. You cannot argue this is just a spec. It is far more than that. Do you want to be one of the thousands standing before the Sagrada Familia and running out of zoom? It is the difference between getting the shot and not getting the shot.

We are talking consumer products from an Apple perspective only. Apple is only a CE company.

Huawei is far more and the benefits of being far more than a CE company are evident. It can filter technologies down into its CE products. That is how research into getting performance gains into batteries in extreme conditions and AI maintenance ended up in Huawei phones. It is why they use graphene film cooling and why (two years ago!) they tried to compare Mate 10 Pro photos with the iPhone X in Alaska only to come back with zero iPhone photos because the iPhone stopped working due to the cold. It is also why they already have a shipping muiltmode NSA and SA 5G modem. They are developing the underlying technology. Huawei phones often connect with Huawei mastheads in the street. It shouldn't surprise you they perform well together. Apple's communication involvement begins and ends - with the phone.

You simply cannot claim that YouTubers are all paid by Huawei or it is all PR. If I link to Huawei sites it is so you can get the information from the horses mouth.

Look at what is being reported. The iPhone simply cannot match what is being done in those areas. You should accept this and hope Apple does something about it.

Forgive me for not going into more detail on these points but I have been through them many times here and they aren't very on topic for this thread.

Battery tech is more than chemistry. It is chemistry and electronics. Huawei SuperCharge is more than capacity and watts. The whole charging process forms part of the technology, from the charger, cable and the different gates within the phone. The cable/charger has chips in it and there are multiple chips/sensors/safety gates within the phone to make sure heat isn't an issue. They have used graphene as a cooling element too within batteries and altered the molecular structure of current battery tech (this last advance hasn't actually been used on a phone yet).

Here is an - old - video overview to SuperCharge but it is visual and clear. Things have improved since then, of course.



Add on TüV certification, and safety, in spite of the risks inherent to batteries, seems to be covered. Degradation isn't really an issue. I have used Huawei fast charging on other phones and 'punished' them. One bought at the same time as an iPhone 6. With far less charging, the iPhone needed a battery replacement long before the Huawei and the iPhone was using the standard 5W charger.

As I said, Huawei has an entire research lab dedicated to battery technology but phones are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of use cases.

https://www.naefrontiers.org/184165/Abstract [.pdf] A simple abstract but it points to what Huawei is researching.

https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2016/12/Graphene-Assisted-Li-ion-Batteries

Huawei has also announced Lithium-Silicon for upcoming handsets.

All fruits of Watt Lab R&D.

On modems, I was talking mainly about wireless communication - and in that context. Remember that Apple is a consumer electronics company and little else in the broader scheme of things. Huawei extends far beyond that space. In fact it was only last year that its Consumer Group itself came to prominence within the company. With the exception of the A Series chips, most of Apple's other chips are relatively new (and great) additions. Huawei has its own chip division and has been in operation far longer than Apple's internal setup and produces all kinds of chips, not unlike Qualcomm. The difference is that they have been more focused on non-consumer electronics  products. That said, last year they announced an entire platform of new chips (Ascend) which will reach down into the CE realm.

https://blog.huawei.com/2019/02/05/activating-ai-power-with-the-ascend-chipset/

Expect more on that front. Of course, in the modem space Huawei also holds a wide spread of patents. I read the other day that Apple does have some 5G patents. Around 11 I think. Huawei has around 1,500 and it is a major contributor to the technology. It is rumoured that, even excepting 5G, Apple licences almost 800 patents from Huawei.

'Shell design' isn't so much 'industrial design' in what I was referring to. I was mainly referring to offering colours and finishes that hit the market and 'turn heads' as it were. As I said, it is a bit of a lottery but Huawei is way ahead of Apple in what it is offering now (and last year too). It has a huge advantage in being able to experiment with different ideas - in a real world setting - and try them in different markets through the year. I think the quote I gave summed things up very well. The Max looks 'boring' with a Breathing Crystal P30 Pro by its side. It's not the 'industrial design' or how great it is. It is how consumers react to it. Last year's Twilight finish wasn't the first on the market but it became the finish that got the wows. As a result we now have a new range of gradients that are also getting lots of 'wows'. At some point gradients will not be fashionable but it won't be this year. That's how fashion works.

On imaging, yes I am aware of what Apple has produced but it is behind. I'm not sure what you mean with the image processing. All output to a format is processed. You can choose RAW output if you wish. As I said, the trend in phone cameras isn't just the quality but the versatility. Again, Apple needs to provide more on that front or it will have issues competing.

avon b7 said:

dt17 said:

avon b7 said:

Huawei has pulled ahead in major areas:

Shell design
Battery tech
Modem tech
Camera tech

This is interesting. Please share more details on how Huawei has pulled ahead in these areas

Simply take a look at a couple of videos (below).

Imaging:

As this article already states, it is reasonable to believe Huawei is simply investing more in the hardware but the software on the phone has also seen a huge monetary investment. Moving to RYYB meant changing everything on the imaging front. They had to produce new DSPs etc. Expensive stuff. As it is, in photography, Apple is far behind the P20 Pro  (which shipped over a year ago) in areas such as low light, zoom and assisting AI technologies (AIIS).

Battery:

Huawei has its own battery R&D centre (Watt Lab) and has made numerous advances in battery technology. Much of it can be used in its phones. Since 2017, the batteries have also been TüV certified. 

IMO. There is no way Apple should be shipping 5W chargers on ultra premium phones in 2019. It is absurd and frankly a disgrace.

Modem:

With decades of experience in telecommunications, Huawei obviously has accumulated knowhow in every area of wireless communication, from modems through to antenna design. Very few companies can match them on this front.

Apple getting itself into a potential squeeze on 5G modem tech can be put down to poor management but they do not have the knowhow, patents or engineers to produce a competitive modem any time soon (that's how it looks anyway).

Shell Design:

I mentioned shell design in an earlier post but here is a review quote:

"Breathtakingly gorgeous design

While the bright Amber Red finish is my favourite, the Breathing Crystal stands out and looks expensive. Stack it up next to the more expensive iPhone XS Max and the Max just looks downright boring in comparison.

The fit, finish and machining of the glass and metal construction is flawless, but the finish on the back is unforgettable and eye-catching as the gradient paint job shifts colours depending on how you hold it."

Try finding a review that doesn't praise the beauty of these phones.

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/huawei-p30-pro-first-impressions-ready-to-retake-the-smartphone-photography-crown-6388081.html

If you add things up you can see that Apple has its work cut out. Anyone that says otherwise isn't in touch with reality. I haven't even touched on things like macro photography, the ToF camera etc.

As I said earlier, taking a great photo isn't enough now. Camera versatility is what counts today.

The P30 Pro is far from perfect but it is the phone to top.

People will look at the first video and say that specs don't tell the whole story. They are right but specs do tell a story and the results back it up. The iPhone simply cannot do many of the things that people want today.

Some of the usual suspects (fortunately they are few) have waded into the comments to throw insults around. What is telling is that they have no counterpoint to offer. They are people who claim they would never touch a non-Apple phone anyway. Something I can understand but if that is the case, why even read this thread much less comment without adding anything to the discussion?

The biggest mistake anyone can make is thinking people don't switch. They do. I hope Apple hasn't fallen into that trap.