CloudTalkin

sflocal said:

OctoMonkey said:

Apple needs to step up or this will result in yet another lawsuit...  potentially class action.

I have worked on industrial designs where we had to take significant precautions to prevent cracking of a clear plastic lens.  While a notebook computer would not experience the same level of physical stress, incorporating clamped plastic in a design can be quite tricky.

How many WinTel laptops experience the same issue?  Little to no info?  It's not because it doesn't happen.  It's because they're not Apple so no one cares.  How many screens are cracking vs how many being sold?  

I suspect its more with people not accepting responsibility for their precision piece of tech and expecting it to be Apple's problem.

Use proper search terminology and the info is right there for you.  Even a cursory search  starting with "[specific brand] screen cracked by itself" would reveal this isn't an issue exclusive to Apple laptops.  Dell, HP, Surface, etc. have all had users making similar claims.

Microsoft even offered free repairs when it happened to surface laptops: https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/8/21252634/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-screen-crack-free-repair

So before arbitrarily blaming users, let the situation play out.  The same people pointing fingers at users without a shred of proof or supporting anecdotal evidence, are most likely the exact same people who blamed users for issues that Apple ultimately took responsibility for and offered some type of remedy.  

chadbag said:

Anyone who says it doesn't harm consumers hasn't actually thought it through.   That does not mean leaks can also, in some cases, be helpful to consumers.  It's not either/or.

Off the top of my head -- some harms to consumers : 

* leak may not be correct or Apple may change a feature or product at the last minute.  Any decisions made by consumer based on leaked info are based on bad or incorrect info. 

* leak may be incorrect.  3rd party accessory manufactured based on leak may not actually work correctly or fit. Consumer buying said accessory ahead of release in order to have it when the new Apple product arrives at their door has a piece of useless 3rd party junk.  

* Apple may decide not to announce leaked product or hold it back for more work and consumers who pushed off buying something they needed in anticipation of the newer one now are SOL.  

There are probably a dozen more obvious harms that you could come up with with a half hour of thought.  

There are also advantages consumers gain by leaks, such  as, if the leak is correct, advance knowledge that may help them make a "better" decision on a coming purchase 

You listed 3 bullet points.  All three are the exact same thing worded differently.  The "harm" you've repeated is someone may regret a buying decision.  That's it.  That isn't a harm to consumers and it isn't a consequence of leaks.  It's a consequence of everyday buying.  Every product we buy -especially tech- has the same frame trap: buy current or wait to buy future new.  Going even further down the tech rabbit hole you get the ones like me who debate on buying current or waiting to buy gen 2 (where they work the kinks out of gen 1).  In none of those instances is there a harm to consumers.  

You say there are probably dozens more you could come up with, but you haven't actually come up with one real harm to consumers.  You've simply highlighted examples of people who make bad purchasing decisions.  It's not really the same thing.  In fact, I can't really think of a single time an Apple leak as caused harm to consumers.  Can you?  I doubt Apple could either, or else they probably would have mentioned it as an example of the "harm".  

Leaks are a business issue.  Consumer issue? Not so much.

You couldn't even school me on your best day, and today isn't even close to your best.  The average user understands context.  To borrow from a silly TV show, even a 5th grader understands context.  Within the context of this post about App Tracking Transparency,  no one would think ATT related to the telecom.  Why on earth would they?The idea of someone randomly associating that ATT with a telecom when a perfectly rational explanation is sitting in the post with App Tracking Transparency... yeah that smacks of desperation in support of a specious argument.  Even if one accidentally disregarded the context of the overall post,  the disregard would have to be intentional to miss the context of the sentence in which the ATT is used.  

Hyperbole does your argument no favors.  Your 3rd party tracking fud lacks one important thing: substantiating evidence.  I doubt you could produce one shred even the flimsiest evidence to support your claims.  Not sure why you repeated Apple's definition of tracking, I included Apple's verbatim explanation of tracking in my post.  Ironically, your paraphrased explanation of ATT is the only factually and topically relevant piece of info in your post.

First party tracking has nothing to do with ATT, so you can throw that little red herring back into the ocean.  No one is taking the bait on that deflective argument.  Your time would be better spent understanding what ATT does and doesn't do and how it actually impacts users.  That's the info you should be spreading.  Not your current brand of info.

sdw2001 said:

If Apple was serious, they would spend the $2 billion needed and include the NFL Sunday ticket free to Apple TV+ subscribers.  With their marketing, this would be a game changer for the service.  It all depends whether they want to break through or not.  

Serious or seriously crazy?  Spend $2B on Sunday Ticket and put it on ATV+ for free? There's using loss leaders to hopefully gain market share (like Direct TV unsuccessfully did) and then there's unfathomable loss leaders.  Your idea falls squarely into the latter.  Sunday Ticket is a $300 to $400 consumer facing package.  Apple isn't putting a package like that on a tiny $5 a month streaming service... and then absorbing all that cost.  It makes no business nor common sense.  

Detnator said:

CloudTalkin said:

JBSlough said:

CloudTalkin said:

lkrupp said:

And this is what iOS and iPadOs users will face when side-loading is forced upon Apple. Adware and Spyware will be ram[pant like it is on macOS. Those who claim to be aware enough to avoid it might be okay but the common user will choose to install some cutesy app from god-knows-where and, well, there you have it. It’s probably coming and iOS users will be in the same camp as Android users. Buyer beware.

No they won't.  That's silly.  The common user is going to do what they've always done: install apps from the App Store.  It's what almost every common user does; choose the path of least resistance.  That's not a knock against the common user (I consider myself among them), it's simple human nature. That path only leads to the App Store.  It's the same for almost every ecosystem save one: Windows.  iOS users overwhelmingly use the App Store and will continue to do so.  Android users overwhelmingly use the Play Store and they've been able to sideload almost since inception.  Amazon users dl mostly from Amazon.  Chinese users dl from their primary app stores.  

Mac users may be more inclined to dl outside of the MAS than iOS users outside of the App Store, but I still think the majority of apps are dl'd through it.  Windows is the exception because Windows users typically are more used to downloading from the web instead of an app store, which really wasn't a thing until Win8 in 2012.  No, Windows Marketplace (hahahahahahahahaha) doesn't count.  Wait, where was I?

Oh yeah, please stop with the FUD.  

I beg to differ. A lot, a real lot, of apps will just opt out of Apple’s App Store. They’re just not going to pay that 30% (or whatever Apple drops that to). They’ll just be a lot less apps in the store, like the Mac App Store. A lot of us will stuck buying out of the store and paying who knows who. With no control over spyware or malware. 

A differing opinion is your prerogative.  I think it's wrong, but hey. I mean, what's your frame of reference for thinking there will be some sort of mass exodus? A few big apps would hypothetically opt out of the App Store.  Most apps won't because they are dependent on the traffic generated by the App Store.  Also remember, the vast, vast, vast majority of app devs are small.  So those small devs would only be paying 15% commission until they hit the million dollar threshold. A threshold that most won't ever hit.  There'd be no incentive to leave the App Store because there's no guarantee customers will follow. 

As I already said, sideloading and alternate app stores ave alway been a reality for Android.  Their impact could generously be called minimal.  More accurately, the impact could be described as near non-existent.  I'm pretty confident it will be the same for the App Store.  

Yes. You and a couple of others here have said this over and over again but you continue to be wrong, for at least some of us. 

I hate the fact that there are some apps I need on my Mac that I can’t get in the Mac App Store because those devs refuse to use it and force me to use their systems. Adobe for example. I have any number of update checkers running in the background of my Mac. On my iPad and iPhone I have one. And plenty of others here have said the same thing. 

You can keep spouting this stuff but it doesn’t change the fact that allowing other stores on iOS will TAKE from me my choice (that I exercise by buying iOS devices) to be able to get ALL my apps from one place with one payment system and one update system. 

How do I know this? Because I do not have that choice on my Mac. And I hate it. I choose iOS over Android for a few reasons but one of the biggest is it gives me that choice. I wish I could have that same choice on my Mac. 

So please don’t be telling me “the system works fine on the Mac”. No. It doesn’t. It sucks on the Mac. And it’ll suck if Apple is forced to bring that to iOS as well. 

As a consumer I have that option on iOS because Apple forces it in the developers, for the sake of consumers like me who value that. As a developer I don’t care that Apple forces that on me, because I get how it’s better for consumers and that counts for something (aside from the enormous value the App Store provides me as a developer that I’d never be able to build as good a system for myself, but more importantly I don’t have to think or worry about any of that stuff).

What do we have to do or say for you and the likes of Sweenie to hear and get that?

Your quote can be summed up thusly: me me me me me.  I get it, you're only concerned with you.  My comment is about the majority of users, majority of devs, and majority of apps.  The majority will continue to do exactly as they have done.  Anecdotal evidence from the Play Store, Amazon's App Store, China's app stores say that an overwhelming majority of people use the respective app stores even though they have been able to sideload since, well since almost forever.  The tiny subset of users who choose to sideload aren't even a rounding error.  I'm 100% sure it will play out exactly like that on iOS.  There's no sound reason to think otherwise.  What you're doing can be classified as "internet overreaction".  Nothing, factual or anecdotal, supports your opinion but you breathlessly shout it out anyway.  The same type of overreaction that was displayed regarding jailbreaking. OMG! OMG!  The world will end if jailbreaking is allowed!  Set the kids on fire to save them from jailbreaking!  Witches!!!  Hyperbolic? Yeah, but it's tantamount to what you're doing now.  What we the end result from jailbreaking being allowed?  Pretty much nothing.

Jeebus help you guys who use bassackwards "logic" claiming it removes your choice.  Continue to buy from the App Store.  If some app decides to leave and you want it, you make a choice: get it outside of the App Store or don't.  What isn't your choice, never was, nor will it ever be, is the decision regarding alternate app stores.  You never had a choice to decide that.  Wanting to keep the status quo is not you having a choice.  It ain't.

You as a dev, fit exactly what I said: " Most apps won't because they are dependent on the traffic generated by the App Store.  Also remember, the vast, vast, vast majority of app devs are small.  So those small devs would only be paying 15% commission until they hit the million dollar threshold. A threshold that most won't ever hit.  There'd be no incentive to leave the App Store because there's no guarantee customers will follow. "

It's not hard to get what you're saying.  What you don't realize is what you're saying doesn't make sense.  When you finally realize that, you'll stop saying it and we'll all be better off.