LeoMC

@mpantone ;
in California, no mask mandates were legislated
Really?!
”Masks are no longer required indoors in California” this is a quote from ca dot gov.

you'll find Dr. Bob Wachter,
I don't give a rat's a$$ what some dude is saying about masks, I only care about evidence and evidences about efficacy are not there.

As for comparing ... that's pretty ludicrous based on a large number of factors
Oh, but comparing America or Europe with Asia is ok... I see; is it because in America, Europe and Asia we all have the same race, the same sex, the same age and we all live in identical societies?
Let's compare the real death toll (deaths due to Covid) which is, according to a study in GB, no more than 10% of what's been reported, or 6% in US (the rest being due to measures - like masking - taken by administrations or silly people).
Let me give you an example of country that never had a mask mandate and practically nobody there ever wore a mask: Sweden - it's reported death rate is almost half of that in US (

I doubt anyone sane expected people to be wearing masks forever
You're saying you're not sane? I ask that, because I've seen you advocating Asians results and you should know that (some) Asians are wearing masks all the time since... forever.

Apple -- like Santa Clara County -- has been on the very cautious side
Apple, like anybody else (almost - Tesla is an exception), has been acting stupid and I'm glad to see them coming to their senses (I just hope they will fight back on any other attempt to institute such a useless obligation in the future).

This would illegal under EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.
Th personal data is and should be sacred as long as a judge doesn't have any legal (according to the rule of law) reason to issue a warrant.
Apple has honoured every legal request so I see no reason to allow a 3rd party - the executive of a state or EU - to have access to my data whenever it wants (not that I don't trust EU or the states but I don't want to have to trust them).

crowley said:

LeoMC said:

crowley said:

LeoMC said:

crowley said:

LeoMC said:

I don't know about Texas, but in some European countries the percentage of vaccinated people that needed hospitalised treatment (mainly against covid) was higher than the percentage of unvaccinated people (before omicron, in UK there were 2 hospitalised vaccinated individuals for every unvaccinated one).

That only became true in the UK in autumn of last year, when vaccination rates exceeded 70%*.  Given that a single shot of a vaccine is expected to provide ~80% (depending on which vaccine) protection from symptoms requiring hospitalisation it is entirely predictable that there is a point where vaccinated people contracting the virus exceed the unvaccinated.  That's simple mathematics.  Infection rates also won't be the same, given that vaccinated people include the high risk people, and that people tend to take less care once they'd had the shot.  Also note that the number of people in hospital who had two shots or more of a vaccine were miniscule.  Finally, note that all hospitalisations are not equal - vaccination dramatically reduces the need for intensive care, and reduces mortality rates down to almost irrelevant, especially a full course**.

That proves again that you know only what mainstream propaganda tells you to know.
In UK the percentage of fully  (14 days after the 2nd shot) vaccinated people hospitalised exceeded the number of unvaccinated in the summer - I believe it was in July - and kept on growing ever since and so did the death rate (by the end of the summer, over 70% of deceased were fully vaccinated).
I'm not gonna explain why that happened it just did; in the rest of Europe there was another ratio, but by the end of the year - when omicron started to interfere - the same thing happened (some studies are showing that the protection with 2 doses of vaccine is negative - as in you're more protected unvaccinated), but not because the vaccines didn't work, but because of the human behaviour.
Vaccines were/are indeed effective for sick people and people over 60+ of age and were/are useless for everyone else (even USA started to admit that vaccines are useless for young healthy people).
As for the masks: as long as there is no problem when tens of thousands people cheer and shout to a bunch a dudes in shorts that run after a ball, I'm pretty sure that a few hundreds that look at phones in a room with good ventilation will be safe even though they won't be wearing a mask...

And not a single source to be seen. Won’t even bother reading to the end.

PHE released a series of reports with the title "SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England": look for them, open an Excel/Numbers or whatever and calculate for yourself.
Medrixv published in 23.12.2021 a Danish study, showing negative protection after 91 days after the 2nd dose for people that had 2 jabs.
Every western country: over 80% of people deceased with covid has had at least one chronic condition; under 65 the percentage goes way over 90%.
CDC - study on efficacy for children vaccination has not met the criteria - stopped from publishing.
Oxford University and NHS: the risk for a young healthy unvaccinated person to catch and die from covid is 1 in 200.000 (they even made an application, based on UK data, for everyone to calculate the risk).

I'm not going to bother giving you sorry a** direct links.

If you're not going to bother then why the hell would I?  You evidently went to some effort to retrieve the date of publication (or just made them up, that's certainly possible), so not going the extra yard is either petty, lazy, or otherwise obstructive. Either way, I've been engaging in good faith while you are clearly more interested in being an edge lord, so it's not worth continuing this.

Toodles!

In every single discussion about this stupid cold and the dumb measures the states have taken there is a person who wants sources; every time I gave them the sources (and believe me, I have read hundreds of studies - I have a dedicated tab in Safari with tens of links to data - and I have designed a few tables with charts that helped me make my decisions) I got the reply that I'm an antivaxx that wants to kill my grandma...
That's why I decided to only provide enough info for anyone to be able to easily find the studies I'm talking about; if you're too lazy to find the info on your own, maybe you shouldn't be talking to me.

lonestar1 said:

LeoMC said:

I know Sweden like the back of my hand.

That may be true, but what you “know” about Sweden does not accord with reality. 

“Sweden currently has the highest per-capita death of any European country, making it difficult to imagine their policies will be remembered as anything short of disastrous.”

https://chicagopolicyreview.org/2021/12/14/swedens-unconventional-approach-to-covid-19-what-went-wrong/

As Will Roger’s said, it’s not what you don’t know that hurts you, it’s all the things you do know that ain’t so.

You want the “right” to do whatever you like, regardless of how much damage you do to other people. So, do I have to punch you in the nose? To break your leg? To dump garbage on your property? To put poison into your water supply? 

I remember when Covid deniers used to say, “We don’t object to voluntary measures. We’re just against government mandates.” Now, we see that isn’t true, You aren’t just against government mandates. You’re against companies voluntarily doing anything to protect their customers and employees. 

But at the same time, if you get sick, you’ll suddenly want the doctors who you scoffed at and ignored to do everything they can to save your life and restore you to health. In Texas, Governor Abbott told hospitals to stop performing “unnecessary procedures” to preserve scarce resources for Covid patients — primarily vaccine deniers. That affected cataract removal, cancer surgeries, and children awaiting reconstructive surgery, among others. They were told to go to the back of the line, because Abbott’s core constituency, with its self-inflicted condition was more important. Hypocrites like you never protested *that* mandate. You didn’t care about *their* medical freedom. All that matters is you, and if anyone else is damaged by your actions, so what, it’s their own fault for getting in your way.  

 

Chicago_whatever is simply wrong; Sweden is on 30th place (out of 48 polities) în Europe when it comes to deaths per capita for people who died WITH sars-cov-2 infection.
Yes, anyone has the right to do whatever one wants just like you or society have the right to punish one, if one violates your/its rights; you are free to punch me in the nose as long as you don't break my nose or provoke a civil damage (damage my image, you scare me etc); you are free to put whatever poison you want in whatever water supply, as long as that poison doesn't affect me and my health in any way (for instance, I believe that lemon is poison - but as long as it does me no harm, there's ok to give me a glass of water with lemon in it); should I go on or you understand the difference between doing something and provoking something?

I do not object if someone wants to wear a mask, or tights, or one wants to pierce ones nipples, or wants to put a dildo up ones bottom, but I have a problem when the same one wants me to put a dildo up my bottom; again, see the difference?

I am ok with not getting free treatment (along with paying less money to medicare and buy an optional insurance or take my chances), if I get covid while unvaccinated as long as you are ok with not being treated, if you don't run 30 min every day.
I don't know about Texas, but in some European countries the percentage of vaccinated people that needed hospitalised treatment (mainly against covid) was higher than the percentage of unvaccinated people (before omicron, in UK there were 2 hospitalised vaccinated individuals for every unvaccinated one).

crowley said:

LeoMC said:

crowley said:

LeoMC said:

GeorgeBMac said:

LeoMC said:

GeorgeBMac said:

LeoMC said:

teejay2012 said:

Without masks, there will be no store policy to physically distance. 'If' I go into a store, I will wear a mask and treat those without masks like I do people with bad breath by politely backing away from them. No doubt some will be offended but my health is more important than their feelings.

Maybe you should consider a Hazmat suit...

No, a mask, especially a good one, is fine.

I'm sure it is, but a Hazmat suit would be safer - don't you wanna be safe?

my point.

You have no point, dude; there are plenty of studies that show masks are pretty much useless and none that show they have any effect on containing the spread of viruses (have you heard about Sweden? that country was hardly affected by sars-cov-2 even though practically nobody wore a face covering).

Have you heard about Sweden?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-23/swedish-prime-minister-admits-strategy-to-stop-virus-fell-short

I know Sweden like the back of my hand.
Sweden had one of the best strategies in the WORLD: since feb 2021 its mortality has fallen to its regular values and remained there. They manage to do that with no masks, no mandates (prof of vaccination), no mandatory measures with school opened, with shops, restaurants, parks opened, with freedom of speech and movement unaltered.

There were definitely masks being used in Sweden, even if it was lacklustre and there was no mandate, and there were definitely  widespread closures even if there were no formal lockdowns.  And even so, Sweden's results have been very questionable (including by their own prime minister and their monarch), certainly not the best, even if not the worst either.  But over twice* the deaths per capita as either Norway or Denmark, which are the closest geographical and demographic comparisons.  And the failure to protect people was particularly felt in the elderly population**.

You're letting your ideology rule your analysis.


* https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
** https://ltccovid.org/2020/12/16/report-of-the-swedish-corona-commission-on-care-of-older-people-during-the-pandemic/

There were hardly any mask use in Sweden - I know, I've been there when the cases peaked; I have seen just as many people wearing mask as they were wearing Balenciaga or Gucci (you have to know the Swedish people in order to get the comparison).
Nothing was ever restricted (maybe alcohol access, which in Sweden has always been restricted) - they had a limited no of people in closed spaces and that was about the only mandatory measure; they respected some recommendations but nobody was offended by those who ignored them (even their state epidemiologist was seen in public ignoring some of them).
In 2021 Sweden had a 75% increase of covid related deaths while Denmark had +147% and Norway +199% and in the last 12 mo SW had +35%, DK +98% and NO +167%.
Most deaths in elderly occurred in institutions (which is where old people go in SW and are very rare in both DK and NO).
The king spoke (in 2021) about what happened at the beginning of the pandemic (in 2020), following an investigation.

The pandemic is about to end and we start to see the effects: SW has one of the biggest economic growths in EU, behind only to Ireland (where all tech companies are) and some of the poorest countries in CE like HU or RO.

How's that for "ideology"?