blah64

chasm said:

macplusplus said:

The most useless feature of iOS 12. A focus on the Health app would be more useful.

It is part of a focus on the health app. Not looking at your phone so much = probably moving around doing things = healthier, or at least a better real life/internet balance.

Agree 100% !

ScreenTime is helping me be more conscious of my effort to lower my FB usage, and it is helping. I'll know I've really made best use of

I have an even better suggestion to help in your effort to lower your fb usage (your own words!).  You might think I'm just being a smartass, but I'm dead serious. 

Simply delete the app from your phone.

There are so many reasons why this is a great thing to do, not the least of which is simply not supporting the corporate surveillance economy, allowing for a less-distracting life in general (better task concentration), much better battery life, etc.

Ideally people would just delete their accounts, but note that's not what I'm suggesting here.  If and when you feel the need to reach out to someone that (god-forbid) only interacts with others via fb, then you can sign on via your laptop or desktop computer.  But the horrific psychology experiment that is fb-on-mobile needs to be killed.

GeorgeBMac said:

dysamoria said:

I'd like to see comparisons between iOS 12 and iOS 10, made on an iPhone 6s and iPad Pro 12.9" first generation. I've refused to put iOS 11 on either device due to how newer OS versions historically make existing devices slower/laggy.

Why not compare an HP desktop running DOS to Windows 10?   Wouldn't that be just as informative -- and give you  bullets to criticize Microsoft for "intentionally slowing down older devices"?

Like DOS, iOS10 is an outdated operating system no longer relevant.   There is no legitimate reason to run a comparison with it.

This is one of the most asinine comments I've read here in a long time.  Bordering on Nunzy-like.

There is an excellent reason to compare, because iOS 10 is still used by roughly 10% of the user base.  With about 1.5 billion active iOS users that means on the order of 150 million users currently using iOS 10.  Myself included, on multiple devices.  Hell, 5% of active devices are running versions of iOS <10.

A comparison is more than justified because many people experienced poor performance when migrating to iOS 11, and others, after hearing many of these such tales decided to not "upgrade" at all.  It's possible that iOS 12 will provide a better experience than either iOS 10 or iOS 11, but without direct comparisons, who is to know?

Or, another analogy:   When I started in IT in the 80's, we were instructed to use extreme measures to increase program efficiency and reduce storage (particularly DASD storage) because CPU power and disk storage were so limited -- to the extent of using 2 digit years knowing that it would blow up the system at the upcoming turn of the century.   But, hardware resources were limited so software was adjusted accordingly -- despite the limitations that imposed on the software...

Yeah, yeah.  And I wrote code in the 70s and 80s that had to be optimized using techniques that you probably wouldn't even understand unless you have a background in both CS and EE (hardware).

But who the f*k cares?!  It's just a weird tangent that has nothing to do with millions of people choosing to stick with a solid version of iOS for whatever reasons.

bb-15 said:

Here is a website which can do side by side phone size comparisons.

https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size

This article was a good idea, and the document is appreciated (thanks Mike), but the phonearena link/page is a really great find.  I really like the ability to dynamically overlay all the sizes, really helpful.  Thanks for posting it!

gatorguy said:

blah64 said:

gatorguy said:

blah64 said:

gatorguy said:

The elephant in the rooms asks you if Apple still notes your location "when people think their settings are preventing tracking."? Granted it may be for different reasons in part, both of them needing to use location to "improve their services and features" with Google having a far larger emphasis on the ad targeting aspect it also improves. 

According to Apple "disable Location Services at any time. To do so, open Settings on your iPhone, tap Privacy, tap Location Services, and either turn off the global Location Services switch or turn off the individual location switch of each location-aware app or feature by setting it to “Never”.  While technically correct since it's limited to "Location Services" it is a bit deceptive IMO in that users may erroneously think that their location is no longer being logged once the global switch is set to off. That was the initial complaint about Google noting location even if also technically accurate. Toggling off the obvious setting didn't entirely turn off ALL location logging and some folks properly found that to be deceptive.

Not right for one, and IMO it's not right, should mean not right for the other. What do you think @ericthehalfbee @MacPro ;

You mentioned this before, but either you're saying something that isn't true, or I'm completely misunderstanding what you're saying. 

users may erroneously think that their location is no longer being logged once the global switch is set to off.

When you go into Settings -> Privacy and turn of Location Services on an iPhone, that does indeed disable ALL location tracking, including sending data to Apple.

The only exception is when you call 9-1-1, because all mobile devices are required by law to pass location.  Also, if you enable FindMyPhone's Lost Mode location data will be made available, but that is because you explicitly turned on location reporting for your device, just remotely.

Apple clearly states in their Location Services & Privacy "To use features such as these, you must enable Location Services on your iPhone and give your permission to each app or website before it can use your location data".  The "and" is italicized in their own copy.  Have you never actually looked at the Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services section on an iPhone? 

This is completely different from google/android's system, where you flip the master switch to No and your location is still being tracked and sent back to the mother ship because it's an either/or design.  Why are you trying to make it sound like they're the same?

EDIT: As it's now about two hours later I'll guess those were tougher questions than you originally thought? 

LOLOL.  At first I thought you were joking because it sounded so ridiculous, but are you being serious?  Two hours?  If I don't respond in two days maybe you could start to wonder if that was the case.

I have a very busy life.  I generally look at this site once a day if I have time, and only bother to sign in when both something compels me and I have time to write something meaningful.  I don't use my mobile for browsing around on the internet at large, and I don't want/get notifications or emails if someone replies to one of my comments for replies (here or anywhere else).  I did eventually see your reply late last night, had a quick laugh, but no time to respond until now.

Well you are the very first person willing to discuss it. Thanks Blah.

Yes I've looked at an iPhone's privacy settings.

Does turning off the global "Location Services" toggle on your iPhone also automatically disable "Significant Locations" (formerly Frequent Locations and used in Apple Maps for instance) found under "System Services"? Does it also stop location logging when you use your device's Safari browser? And after "Location Services" have been disabled, your preferences for revealing your location noted, and using your Safari browser will Apple no longer try to figure out where you are even using geo-location services which can be accurate to as much as city level if not more, in order to deliver "more relevant search results and services"? (where have we heard that phrase before...)

Those would be some answers others would also be interested in.  So far everyone else has avoided it. If the answers are all "Yes" then no idea why so many are avoiding saying so.

Turning off Location Services does indeed disable "Frequent Locations", and other location-based system services (like Location-Based Suggestions, Popular Near Me, etc.).  If you go into Locations Services and read the About Location Services & Privacy link it's spelled out pretty clearly.  I'm actually puzzled why you're questioning this, which is why I asked if you'd actually looked through the Locations Services section.  Even with your ridiculous biases and transparent debate tactics, you're usually a pretty thorough reader, and you usually have your facts in order.

Quote: "By enabling Location Services, location-based system services such as these will also be enabled: Traffic... Popular Near Me..., etc."

These services are NOT enabled when the master Location Services switch is off.  Which is exactly what any normal person would expect.

Also to your question about Maps and Safari, note that the Apple Maps and Safari apps are treated just like every other app that asks for permissions to access system resources, like the camera, microphone, location, contacts, etc.  You can disable their access to resources/sensors, just like any other app, and when the master switch is turned off they no longer have access to your location.

iOS Location Services use GPS, Bluetooth and crowd-sourced WiFi and cell tower locations, but all of these come under the general Locations Services terms.

I don't think even your deflection methods will work here, although you could try to blow it off as an "I asked it as a question, not a fact", but you've brought this topic up in multiple threads recently.  It feels like a mea culpa is in order on your part.

I'm still not sure your answer is accurate and I'll tell you why.

 I asked a pretty basic question about the global location services toggle of Rayz2016 a few days ago, and originally it was a question I had no idea the answer to. He avoided it. I prompted him again after that asking if his avoidance was confirmation that more than one toggle may need to be disabled. He moved on. So I then asked MacPro the same. He also avoided it as did one other regular whose name now escapes me.  At that point I began to think that Apple too used several different toggles to turn it all off, which was the initial complaint against Google, and for obvious reasons.

So I looked at an iPhone X (my nephews) privacy settings so as to familiarize myself, and then did a search on Apple help pages, iMore and I forget the third site. All seemed in agreement that more than one toggle is required.

So I then asked one more very knowledgeable member here, Ericthehalfbee.
He did not dispute my description of how I understood it works with multiple toggles required to truly turn off all location logging. He instead generally confirmed it but saying it didn't matter because it's what you do with the data, not that it was collected. (He has half a point). He reiterated that a few times. 

You seem to be the only one saying NOT SO. What started out as a simple question has been avoided by so many long-time Apple users that I would be forgiven for thinking there is more to it than it might appear on the surface, and not as simple as a single toggle.  I'll keep looking. Maybe you're right. Maybe not. 

BTW, Apple themselves state in one of their privacy notices that even with all locations services turned off they'll still try to determine your location via geo-location  (IP alone or in combination with other indicators) in order to deliver more relevant results and services. That was another of the knocks against Google voiced in media articles. 

What I'm reading here is that you're interpreting peoples' lack of response as tacit agreement with your rebuttals, and that's just not a good argument.  Honestly, if you read people's comments, a lot of posters here are tired of engaging with you, so it's not surprising that they don't bother to get down and dirty in these discussions.

But back to the meat here, I'm telling you exactly what the iOS Location and Privacy text right on an iOS devices says.  Word for word.  You should really go back and read it again, and look at how the settings are organized instead of throwing vague references to stuff that's either wrong or you're mis-remembering.  Frankly, it's not common for you to be lazy in your arguments, but appears to be what's happening here.

I'm telling you that the settings are all in one place, and there is indeed a "master switch", and that Apple's verbiage on the device itself supports that.  Even the "System Services" functionality is inside that "master switch" section.  If you have some specific information that contradicts that, please give us specific information and/or a URL, because I'm not seeing it.  Same with the geo-location/IP/bluetooth, from what I'm reading on the device itself, when you disable Location Services that data is NOT being gathered except for legally-mandated 9-1-1 calls.

gatorguy said:

blah64 said:

gatorguy said:

The elephant in the rooms asks you if Apple still notes your location "when people think their settings are preventing tracking."? Granted it may be for different reasons in part, both of them needing to use location to "improve their services and features" with Google having a far larger emphasis on the ad targeting aspect it also improves. 

According to Apple "disable Location Services at any time. To do so, open Settings on your iPhone, tap Privacy, tap Location Services, and either turn off the global Location Services switch or turn off the individual location switch of each location-aware app or feature by setting it to “Never”.  While technically correct since it's limited to "Location Services" it is a bit deceptive IMO in that users may erroneously think that their location is no longer being logged once the global switch is set to off. That was the initial complaint about Google noting location even if also technically accurate. Toggling off the obvious setting didn't entirely turn off ALL location logging and some folks properly found that to be deceptive.

Not right for one, and IMO it's not right, should mean not right for the other. What do you think @ericthehalfbee @MacPro ;

You mentioned this before, but either you're saying something that isn't true, or I'm completely misunderstanding what you're saying. 

users may erroneously think that their location is no longer being logged once the global switch is set to off.

When you go into Settings -> Privacy and turn of Location Services on an iPhone, that does indeed disable ALL location tracking, including sending data to Apple.

The only exception is when you call 9-1-1, because all mobile devices are required by law to pass location.  Also, if you enable FindMyPhone's Lost Mode location data will be made available, but that is because you explicitly turned on location reporting for your device, just remotely.

Apple clearly states in their Location Services & Privacy "To use features such as these, you must enable Location Services on your iPhone and give your permission to each app or website before it can use your location data".  The "and" is italicized in their own copy.  Have you never actually looked at the Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services section on an iPhone? 

This is completely different from google/android's system, where you flip the master switch to No and your location is still being tracked and sent back to the mother ship because it's an either/or design.  Why are you trying to make it sound like they're the same?

EDIT: As it's now about two hours later I'll guess those were tougher questions than you originally thought? 

LOLOL.  At first I thought you were joking because it sounded so ridiculous, but are you being serious?  Two hours?  If I don't respond in two days maybe you could start to wonder if that was the case.

I have a very busy life.  I generally look at this site once a day if I have time, and only bother to sign in when both something compels me and I have time to write something meaningful.  I don't use my mobile for browsing around on the internet at large, and I don't want/get notifications or emails if someone replies to one of my comments for replies (here or anywhere else).  I did eventually see your reply late last night, had a quick laugh, but no time to respond until now.

Well you are the very first person willing to discuss it. Thanks Blah.

Yes I've looked at an iPhone's privacy settings.

Does turning off the global "Location Services" toggle on your iPhone also automatically disable "Significant Locations" (formerly Frequent Locations and used in Apple Maps for instance) found under "System Services"? Does it also stop location logging when you use your device's Safari browser? And after "Location Services" have been disabled, your preferences for revealing your location noted, and using your Safari browser will Apple no longer try to figure out where you are even using geo-location services which can be accurate to as much as city level if not more, in order to deliver "more relevant search results and services"? (where have we heard that phrase before...)

Those would be some answers others would also be interested in.  So far everyone else has avoided it. If the answers are all "Yes" then no idea why so many are avoiding saying so.

Turning off Location Services does indeed disable "Frequent Locations", and other location-based system services (like Location-Based Suggestions, Popular Near Me, etc.).  If you go into Locations Services and read the About Location Services & Privacy link it's spelled out pretty clearly.  I'm actually puzzled why you're questioning this, which is why I asked if you'd actually looked through the Locations Services section.  Even with your ridiculous biases and transparent debate tactics, you're usually a pretty thorough reader, and you usually have your facts in order.

Quote: "By enabling Location Services, location-based system services such as these will also be enabled: Traffic... Popular Near Me..., etc."

These services are NOT enabled when the master Location Services switch is off.  Which is exactly what any normal person would expect.

Also to your question about Maps and Safari, note that the Apple Maps and Safari apps are treated just like every other app that asks for permissions to access system resources, like the camera, microphone, location, contacts, etc.  You can disable their access to resources/sensors, just like any other app, and when the master switch is turned off they no longer have access to your location.

iOS Location Services use GPS, Bluetooth and crowd-sourced WiFi and cell tower locations, but all of these come under the general Locations Services terms.

I don't think even your deflection methods will work here, although you could try to blow it off as an "I asked it as a question, not a fact", but you've brought this topic up in multiple threads recently.  It feels like a mea culpa is in order on your part.