Detnator

AppleZulu said:

elijahg said:

Detnator said:

elijahg said:

The intercom feature is great, hopefully it'll come to the existing Homepod (maxi?). The price is far better than the HomePod maxi too, so I think sales will be better than the HP. I do think Apple should have a cheap HomeKit speaker to put in each room for £30 or so, to compete with Amazon. Not really for music, but just for queries. Though this would need Siri to be less crap. For comparison, the Amazon Dot is on offer now in the UK for £19.

Pretty sure they're never going to do that.  Apple has never participated in the "race to the bottom" with pricing - just like they'll never release a $300 laptop or a $100 iPhone.  They're just not interested in competing in those markets - never have and I can't see that they ever will.  Steve was adamant about that in his time and Tim's kept it that way.

They sell billions of all their products, DESPITE the prices, because they only compete in the mid to high end markets, but they do it better than the others (at least if all those buyers - and the "I want one" people - are any indication) even at the "higher" prices.  

One of the big reasons for this is Apple's focus on experience not specs.  They bring specs to the table to deliver on the experience, but they don't just deliver specs for specs' sake or bragging rights or whatever else like most of the others.

I agree of course, I really do hope all these new features are available in the original HomePods we all already have.

It wouldn't really be a race to the bottom as it wouldn't be an expensive device to produce, and wouldn't be competing against the equivalent higher end smart speaker from Amazon. The point is you would be able to operate HomeKit devices from places you might not want to put a $99 speaker. My dad would never listen to music in his bedroom for example, but might want to turn off the light or a wall socket for example, and $99 is a lot to pay for a device to do so, when its main feature (decent quality music) wouldn't be used.

A £30 device that had a basic microphone and speaker just for Siri feedback would be very useful. Doesn't need high specs because the "experience" of this device would be Siri, not music. Though if Apple is so hung up on experience, they really need to fix Siri. Also I think selling "billions of all their products" is a bit of a stretch... The total sales of all iOS devices is about a billion iirc.

HomeKit compatible light switches cost $50 or more. A HomePod mini that will control every HomeKit device in the house for $99 is not priced out for your dad who won't use it for music.  The thing is, if it has a speaker in it, most people will want to use it for music. Your dad is not the typical use case. Apple isn't going to produce a speaker that produces adequate or inferior sound quality just because some people won't want to use it for music anyway. 

That's a good argument and probably true, although I'm cautious these days to say "Apple won't" anything as far as any specific product might go - other than my previous argument that Apple won't even try to compete in the low end and junk categories in any product range.

People said they'd never make a cheap iPod, but then came Mini then Nano then Shuffle.  So a scaled down (again) Siri/speaker device for $50 might be in their future, though I agree Elijah's dad is not their target market. All other iDevices, and the Watch, meet Elijah's dad's need, and if you're not using those devices you're not in the Apple ecosystem with a HomeKit setup anyway.

elijahg said:

StrangeDays said:

Detnator said:

elijahg said:

The intercom feature is great, hopefully it'll come to the existing Homepod (maxi?). The price is far better than the HomePod maxi too, so I think sales will be better than the HP. I do think Apple should have a cheap HomeKit speaker to put in each room for £30 or so, to compete with Amazon. Not really for music, but just for queries. Though this would need Siri to be less crap. For comparison, the Amazon Dot is on offer now in the UK for £19.

Pretty sure they're never going to do that.  Apple has never participated in the "race to the bottom" with pricing - just like they'll never release a $300 laptop or a $100 iPhone.  They're just not interested in competing in those markets - never have and I can't see that they ever will.  Steve was adamant about that in his time and Tim's kept it that way.

They sell billions of all their products, DESPITE the prices, because they only compete in the mid to high end markets, but they do it better than the others (at least if all those buyers - and the "I want one" people - are any indication) even at the "higher" prices.  

Yeah exactly. This dude doesn't get Apple. They aren't going to make a $30 echo dot.

You said exactly the same about HomePod when people said it was too expensive. And now look where we are. You obviously don't get Apple.

That's not a fair or accurate comment at all.  Did he say back then that they weren't going to make a $30 echo dot back or did he specifically say they weren't going to make a $100 smart speaker?  Either way I'm sure his comment was about the principle not the price, and on that he gets Apple.

Besides which, if his comment back then was "they're not going to make a $30 echo dot" then his comment was accurate then and is accurate now.  The Echo Dot is a cheap piece of junk compared to everything Apple makes.  Your description in your other comment of what they might make for maybe $50 (a non-music centered Siri-only device) is a reasonable idea but that's not what the Echo Dot is.

Also worth considering:  Apple almost never come out of the gate with the low-end model.  They almost always introduce a new product category with the high end, or perhaps the mid-range (and then expand to the "max" or plus versions as they also expand down). Releasing the fancy expensive HP first - for the early adopters who don't mind spending money on the fancy new tech - and then grow the range for more of the masses, is nearly always their MO. Classic example: expensive iPod -> cheaper iPod Mini -> cheaper iPod nano -> cheaper iPod shuffle.  That's what they've done here. And so this is the mini.  Perhaps a Nano is coming in another couple of years.  Quote me when it happens, I'll wager it'll still be $50 not $30 and it won't be anything like the quality-compromising Dot.

Mind you... why it took them this many years to get this far with the HomePod range is a bit bizarre, unless there were doubts as to whether entering this market was worthwhile and so it was borderline to expand the range or kill it for a while.  I for one was borderline for a long time to get one or not.  I tried one and the sound blew me away, but it wasn't worth $350 to me, or even the $300 it later came down to.  I took it back, and only bought one (well, two actually) when Best Buy had them for $200.  It was worth that to me.  This mini definitely tips the scales, and is a great deal if the sound is any good.  I'll probably fill my house with a bunch of them now.

mike1 said:

Detnator said:

elijahg said:

The intercom feature is great, hopefully it'll come to the existing Homepod (maxi?). The price is far better than the HomePod maxi too, so I think sales will be better than the HP. I do think Apple should have a cheap HomeKit speaker to put in each room for £30 or so, to compete with Amazon. Not really for music, but just for queries. Though this would need Siri to be less crap. For comparison, the Amazon Dot is on offer now in the UK for £19.

Pretty sure they're never going to do that.  Apple has never participated in the "race to the bottom" with pricing - just like they'll never release a $300 laptop or a $100 iPhone.  They're just not interested in competing in those markets - never have and I can't see that they ever will.  Steve was adamant about that in his time and Tim's kept it that way.

They sell billions of all their products, DESPITE the prices, because they only compete in the mid to high end markets, but they do it better than the others (at least if all those buyers - and the "I want one" people - are any indication) even at the "higher" prices.  

One of the big reasons for this is Apple's focus on experience not specs.  They bring specs to the table to deliver on the experience, but they don't just deliver specs for specs' sake or bragging rights or whatever else like most of the others.

I agree of course, I really do hope all these new features are available in the original HomePods we all already have.

From HomePod Mini page...

And HomePod mini works with HomePod for multiroom audio and features like Intercom.

Awesome.  Thanks for pointing that out.  Good to see.

elijahg said:

Detnator said:

elijahg said:

The intercom feature is great, hopefully it'll come to the existing Homepod (maxi?). The price is far better than the HomePod maxi too, so I think sales will be better than the HP. I do think Apple should have a cheap HomeKit speaker to put in each room for £30 or so, to compete with Amazon. Not really for music, but just for queries. Though this would need Siri to be less crap. For comparison, the Amazon Dot is on offer now in the UK for £19.

Pretty sure they're never going to do that.  Apple has never participated in the "race to the bottom" with pricing - just like they'll never release a $300 laptop or a $100 iPhone.  They're just not interested in competing in those markets - never have and I can't see that they ever will.  Steve was adamant about that in his time and Tim's kept it that way.

They sell billions of all their products, DESPITE the prices, because they only compete in the mid to high end markets, but they do it better than the others (at least if all those buyers - and the "I want one" people - are any indication) even at the "higher" prices.  

One of the big reasons for this is Apple's focus on experience not specs.  They bring specs to the table to deliver on the experience, but they don't just deliver specs for specs' sake or bragging rights or whatever else like most of the others.

I agree of course, I really do hope all these new features are available in the original HomePods we all already have.

It wouldn't really be a race to the bottom as it wouldn't be an expensive device to produce, and wouldn't be competing against the equivalent higher end smart speaker from Amazon. The point is you would be able to operate HomeKit devices from places you might not want to put a $99 speaker. My dad would never listen to music in his bedroom for example, but might want to turn off the light or a wall socket for example, and $99 is a lot to pay for a device to do so, when its main feature (decent quality music) wouldn't be used.

A £30 device that had a basic microphone and speaker just for Siri feedback would be very useful. Doesn't need high specs because the "experience" of this device would be Siri, not music. Though if Apple is so hung up on experience, they really need to fix Siri. Also I think selling "billions of all their products" is a bit of a stretch... The total sales of all iOS devices is about a billion iirc.

Ok... for a change you've made some decent points.

The device you describe - Siri operation without the fancy audio - has merit and perhaps Apple has plans for such a device.  Not sure.  They've had such a focus on music and media in one form or another for nearly 20 years, that perhaps the device you describe takes away from that focus (in their minds).  Or... perhaps they're working on such a device and it's coming.  I'll wager it'd still be expensive by comparison - so $50 instead of $30 perhaps.  But who knows.  Fair enough.

And yes... Siri definitely has issues, and I really don't understand why the company with the most money and arguably the biggest R&D budget for everything can't seem to get Siri a lot better.  The improvements in the voice and other things have been pretty awesome, but she's still useless at voice recognition and some requests compared with Alexa and Google sometimes.  Definitely a head scratcher why they can't get that figured out.

Yes... my "billions" was perhaps an exaggeration for dramatic effect... or whatever - although I said "all their products" not just iOS devices.  Include that consideration, or replace my "billions" with "hundreds of millions" and either way I think my point still remains.

anantksundaram said:

StrangeDays said:

chemengin1 said:

Most underwhelming phone ever announced.

You're on some serious, serious drugs. Seek help.

He's not out of line. I don't see people breaking down doors to comment or react here. That is quite contrary to prior (significantly new) iPhone intros...

Revealed preference.

My experiences here in the past is that people have been breaking down the doors to complain about what wasn't included or a load of other negative stuff.  Those people appear to be silenced for the most part, which leaves the few of us who do actually like Apple stuff and are capable of intelligent conversation having some actually pretty sensible (albeit less vocal without the whiners) discussions for a nice change.

;-)