thompr

jdnc123 said:

adrayven said:

Steve Jobs did the exact same thing, worse actually. He wouldn't be doing by-backs, or provide any Dividend.. Tim Cook is doing fine.. He doesn't need vision; thats what Jonny Ive and team are for; thats their job. Any stock lost over past weeks is hardly because of Tim Cook. Most of it is the market as a whole has lost it's ass in Oil and China, so everything is moving to bonds and gold. Over 17% drop as a market whole (dragging Apple with it).. Of course, now you'll say the entire markets drop is all Tim's fault too. Grow up .. lol

Honest question.  How do you think Steve Jobs would feel about the market saying Google is a better and thus more valuable company as it is today.  Google has an enterprise value of $420 billion versus Apple at $372 billion.  Google is about to pass Apple in market cap also.  The stock is lower than it was in 2012 due to massive multiple compression, which has happened because the Street saw the growth slowing, apparently even before the CEO did.  Google has increased by $200 billion or so in value since 2012, MIcrosoft by $150 billion, Netflix by $40 billion, Amazon by $175 billion, all while Apple lost $130 billion of total enterprise value.  The idea that this is just 'the market' is complete and utter garbage.  Its an Apple problem, not a market problem.  I'm a lover of Apple products and owner of the stock, but I can't convince myself that the other companies I mentioned havent been making bolder moves than Apple under Tim Cook.

I personally think Jobs is rolling in his grave because Cook has allowed Google to surpass Apple in value.  Given how much he hated them, he has to be.

rogifan_old said:

flaneur said:

Add bad vision, bad taste, and numb nuts to sog's growing list of deficiencies.

He's completely jumped the shark now. But at he's no longer calling people cheap bastards that should go Ansroid for complaining about 16GB devices.

sog35 said:

thompr said:

Entirely because Apple is in unprecedented territory from a profit perspective and so there is a long way to fall.  You and I may know that their situation is different than hardware companies that have been on top before, but enough people on Wall Street are unconvinced that it makes a difference.  Now they are seeing first evidence - or at least they think they are - that the beginning of the end is nigh.  Nothing Cook says is going to change that.  If you think you are right and that they are wrong, then this is a buying opportunity.  Why don't you get that through your skull instead of whining all of the time?

I responding to the post that said the only reason Apple is down is because the market is down.  Apple is down 300% more than the market.

Apple has chronically undervalued ever since Tim Cook became CEO. During Steve Jobs reign the PE has been in the 18-25 range most of the time.
Under Tim Cook the PE has rarely been above 18. We have had many months of sub 12 PE in 2013 and sub 15 in 2015.  Now we are going to get sub 10 after reporting the greatest earnings quarter ever.  That's a reflection on Tim Cook.  Basically the company is worth $300 billion less because Tim Cook is the CEO.

2old4fun said:

Contrary to what has been posted, Apple does not "owe" its stockholders anything.  Stockholders bought the stock with their eyes open and can sell anytime.  The company owes the stockholders a well run company.  The executives owe the company their best efforts to run the company.  The board must monitor and to some extent guide the executives.  If an executive is not performing then the board must replace that person.  People that invest in a company expect a level of competence in the company.  If that level of competence does not appear to exist then the investor is free to divest their holdings.

Tim Cooks runs Apple.  He does not run the world economy.  He guides the company as it produces products and services that he thinks is best for the company.  No where in his marching orders is "stockholder value" listed as part of his job.  If he executes well then stockholder value should increase but the stock price is part of the world economy that he does not control.

Investor decide what they are willing to pay for the privilege of "owning" a small part of the company.  The investor decides to buy or sell based on their own criteria.

No amount of "Monday quarterbacks" is going to alter Apple or any other well run company.

williamh said:

sog35 said:

And who's fault is that?

Did Tim Cook give us guidance for revenue for the rest of 2016?
Did he give us guidance for 2017?
Did he gives us guidance regarding what the install base will be in 3 years, 5 years, and 10 years?
Did he give us guidance for what he expects service revenue (the next growth product) to be in the next 3 years?

NO.

Or course Wall Street only looks 3 months ahead. Because that's all Tim Cook will talk about in solid terms.  He is too secretive about the future so Wall Street does not give them any credit for the future.

This goes back to what I've been saying for YEARS.  Tim Cook has no vision. Or he does but does not articulate it clearly to Wall Street. Wall Street sees Apple simply as a hardware company. Yesterday was the first time Apple even tried to hint at services being a massive part of Apple in the future. $30 billion in services is massive for 2015. Yet I don't see a single headline talking about that. Sad.  The reason is he should have been pushing the install base/services/monitize install base theme YEARS AGO. Now it looks like a desperate move.

Stock has lost $30 billion today. Total lost is over $250 billion since last year.  We could easily see $80 stock price in a few days. All because Apple is run by a CEO who has no idea how to control the narrative of the company.

You sound foolish.  It's hard enough to give good guidance for the next quarter, let alone for a year or next year.  As a slave to guidance, I would expect you to be more sensitive about that. Should Apple have given guidance about this year's iphone installed base in 2006?  You have any idea how stupid that sounds?  Do you think Apple should have provided downward guidance for Q3 2016 LAST YEAR?  Wall Street looks 3 months ahead because that's the next time they get meaningful information.  If Cook gives guidance 3 years ahead they will be wildly off one direction or another.  You think Wall Street likes that?  You are a horrible armchair CEO.