mfryd

ArianneFeldry said:

macxpress said:

The EU might as well just be Apple's new design/engineering team. They're doing a great job at stifling innovation by mandating ports and speeds....let's not stop there! What's next, Apple has to make every new iPhone with a minimum 50MP camera? Or, perhaps they will mandate that all new iPhones must be able to run both Android and iOS? 

How exactly is telling Apple to get with the times and use a modern port that allows for a 40Gbps standard stifling innovation? Was Apple stifling innovation when they moved to only USB-C on the Mac? How about with the iPad? Or was Apple being innovative when they did nothing with Lightning to improve speeds? Oh, an adapter allowed for USB 3.0 speeds on one iPad. How innovative!

Why are you mad that the EU is telling Apple that they cannot sell you a device limited to 480Mbps when transferring data?

They are telling Apple that they can't use something better than USB-C for wired charging.

citpeks said:

mfryd said:

The fear is that Apple will do something outside the USB-C standard.  Third party standard USB-C chargers/cables may not be allowed to charge as fast as Apple approved "Mi-Fi" cables.

Yes, one must be careful in how the rules are worded in order to address this issue.  It is also unclear as to whether it is reasonable for Apple to require extra certification for higher power charging.  Can Apple use a charging scheme that is a superset of USB-C, yet still compatible with it?

The Type-C Authentication standard, which allows both source and sink devices to do as much, or as little is they see fit with what they connect to, will probably provide the technical foundation for Apple to verify connections and decide how to proceed.  It is part of the USB spec, so Apple doesn't need to create anything special to have that capability.

It's funny that the EU is 1) reading tech rumor sites, and 2) crafting official responses based on such rumors.

What's even funnier is that the EU itself doesn't seem to recognize the history of USB charging, or what is happening right now under their noses, with MagSafe.

From the beginning, no device would have any sort of capability to "fast charge" if proprietary extensions to the USB specs were not implemented.

Apple 10W, and then 12W were not part of the USB spec.  Nor was Samsung's Fast Charge, the Chinese phone brands' methods of fast charging, nor QuickCharge.

They were created to fill a need to enable higher charging rates, but none of them prevented devices from charging at the standard, albeit snail slow rates USB specs provided for.

On the wireless induction charging side, MagSafe conforms to the Qi standard, and Apple devices will function perfectly fine with chargers that conform, but an Apple-certified wireless charger is needed to "fast" charge at the highest rates.  Same principle at work.

Most are not picking up on the concept of a superset, instead focusing on a restricted subset, assuming that's how Apple will approach it.  But MagSafe, and history says otherwise.

Technically, gas stations cannot break out credit card merchant fees into separate component charges, or they will be in violation of their merchant agreements with the card associations.  How do they get around this?  By offering "cash discounts" and a lower price that does not contain those merchant fees.

It is entirely possible to adhere to the letter, if not the spirit of the law, and you're right, nuance will play a big role.

tht said:

It doesn’t sound tenable, other than a minimum req’t. 

Are they going to say that a device must support 3rd party cables at its maximum charge rate? How would they determine who is at fault? It could be the cable, the power adaptor, or the device. 

Are they going to mandate that every USBC cable must support 10W, 30W, or 100W? There will be cable who will only support 10W. How would a consumer know what power a cable supports?

They really don’t know how it is going to work. It’s taking more than a year for them to come up with a “clarification” of what they mean. Just seems like a shitshow. Like with MFi, they would have to come up with a certification standard for the whole chain for it not to be a shitshow, and that’s already XKCD territory already. 

The only kind of "minimum" that exists is that spec-compliant Type-C cables must be capable of carrying 60W (more than enough for most devices), and USB 2 data.  The older spec provided for higher capacity 100W cables, and currently 240W cables, which must be e-marked.  Those specs pertain strictly to cables, not sources, nor sinks.

There is no minimum standard, or expectation for any device except for what that device chooses, or is designed to accept, and every one is different.

As noted above, history, and practice has not prevented supersets, nor do those supersets preclude compatibility with strictly spec-compliant devices.

If the EU is going to try to overreach, and not merely mandate compliance, but single out Apple for not complying "enough," then it should be prepared to apply that standard to everyone, not just Apple, and prepare for some pushback.

The EU's stated objective was to have Apple standardize on Type-C, for compatibility.  Apple can do that by switching to Type-C ports.

But what it appears to want now, in response to a rumor, is to also regulate performance.

While various companies extended the USB spec to allow fast charging, various third parties were able to build chargers and cables that were compatible with thee methods.

tht said:

I don’t get it. What does it mean to “not throttle charging” speeds?

...

The fear is that Apple will do something outside the USB-C standard.  Third party standard USB-C chargers/cables may not be allowed to charge as fast as Apple approved "Mi-Fi" cables.

Yes, one must be careful in how the rules are worded in order to address this issue.  It is also unclear as to whether it is reasonable for Apple to require extra certification for higher power charging.  Can Apple use a charging scheme that is a superset of USB-C, yet still compatible with it?

Laws don't always have their intended effect.

For a few dollars more, you can replace the wall outlet with one that has a built in USB charger.   That won't stick out as far, leaves the 120 VAC outlets available for use, and is harder for someone to casually steal.

For instance, Leviton (a brand with a good reputation) offers model T5633A (about $25 from Amazon).  It has two 120VAC outlets, a USB-A, and a USB-C.  It's limited to 25W total for the two USB ports, and no more than 15W per port.   The Leviton T5635 (about $34 from Amazon) offers two USB-C ports.  It can put out 15W to each port, or 30W to one port.   


There are many other brands and options available, some at lower cost and higher power outputs.