mr. h

frank777 said:

Yikes. USB-IF to continue confusing name scheme with USB4 Gen 3x2

The engineers need to be physically thrown out of the marketing meetings.

Oh jeez!

Come on people! Here's a novel idea, how about this:

All USB 4 devices are named:

USB 4

And you connect them together with a:

USB 4 cable.

melgross said:

This is very interesting. But it raises questions. The biggest one to me is the specificity of Intel offering TB 3 licensing, rather that just TB licensing for free. Way back, Intel stated that in 10 years time from the first offering if TB, it would be at a speed of 100Gbs. It’s remained at 40 for years. I’m waiting to see if, or even when, we can expect TB 4 at a higher speed. So I’m wondering it this is the first indication, from Intel, that we will see TB 4 sometime in the near future. So allow the slower TB 3 for free, and come out with TB 4 with paid licensing. Maybe late 2020.

the other thing is just how confusing this all is to most people. I just barely have it straight myself. Several flavors of usb along with TB 3. We do have some of that now, of course, but this will be much more complex. People will need to figure out what all the prevailing usb standards that will work on this, and then how long a cable can be for the highest speed for each standard, and what cable will work with each standard. It’s much worse than ever before. People will make lots of mistakes with cabling and peripherals, and then complain that it’s not working the way it was promised.

Good points on both fronts, especially re: USB 3, TB 3, and cables - it's a right bloody mess; I don't think it could be more confusing if you tried! There's a real opportunity here to clean all that up with USB 4 - I hope they are aiming for a single cable standard (not sure if that's even possible? Maybe two standards would be acceptable - active or passive)

At the very least, they need to come up with, and enforce, a clear cable-labelling scheme.

riclf said:

What I'd like to ask the great minds at AppleInsider and their very smart readership is WHY, if I use a new Sandisk Extreme Portable SSD https://www.sandisk.com/home/ssd/extreme-portable-ssd configured with a USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C connector, connected to a new Macbook Pro's Thunderbolt 3 port, do I ONLY get 550MB/s (4Gbps) instead of 10Gbps (1250MB/s) ? Seems like I'm chugging at half speed. What am I missing here?

Is this a trick question? The page you linked to states over and over again that the read speeds are up to 550 MB/s.

Soli said:

mr. h said:

Soli said:

firelock said:

fastasleep said:

firelock said:

mr. h said:

fastasleep said:

danvm said:

fastasleep said:

entropys said:

I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.

i suspect that is unlikely..

Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer. 

Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?

No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.

No need to replace any of the TB3 ports. There's plenty of room in that chassis for the TB3 ports and a USBA port. And an HDMI. And an SD card slot.

What I don't get about apologists for the MacBook Pro's stupid port offering is: how is adding more ports a bad thing? Would anyone possibly be actively put off buying a MacBook Pro if it had four TB3 + USBA + HDMI + SD Card?

I was in a meeting yesterday with my MacBook Pro and someone asked if I could project a PowerPoint that had just been emailed to the group. Now when I know that I am giving a presentation I always make sure to lug along Apple’s humongous USB-C to HDMI adapter. But this was impromptu and so the answer was, no, my ridiculously expensive “pro” laptop could not connect to the industry standard HDMI cable on the table. And before someone says we should have an Apple TV or some USB-C adapter built-into the setup, keep in mind that this is a big corporation with dozens of conference rooms and an IT department that acts like it is the early 2000’s. I can barely get my Macs on the network.

Guess you won't make that mistake again.

LOL, the hyperbole — "lug" "humongous" — it's like what, a couple grams? You know there are much smaller ones, right? Throw this on your keychain and never get caught off guard again. It's $12 and tiny:

https://www.amazon.com/CHOETECH-Keychain-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Pixelbook/dp/B075FKL7MC/



You guys sure aren't very good at preparing for your jobs.

Not sure why you think it is necessary to throw shade at another poster. But you can at least try to get the point of the post which is that I shouldn't have to carry around a bunch of adapters on what is ostensibly a pro laptop. Long time Mac users will remember there was a time when the pro moniker meant it came with all of the additional ports that pro users need. And if you are just going to be a jerk please don't respond. Thank you.

You're correct, which is why USB-C is a welcome change fro, the USB-IF.

A surprisingly disingenuous post from someone such as yourself. Most of those are device-end ports, rather than host-end. I am absolutely 100% for device manufacturers to move to a USB-C connector; let's do away with all these different device-end port shapes! But for the host end, there's just two possibilities: USB-C and USB-A, and I think Apple should have both in all their machines.

And those device-end ports are a non-issue with USB-C for multiple reasons. In the interim you can have cables with different USB ends just like before USB-C was introduced, and as we move further ahead we'll have USB-C on both ends with interchangeable cables (and ports) for an ever growing number of devices.

I love being able to plug in my MBP from either side as my location dictates. I love that my MBP USB-C cable detaches from the PSU. I love being able to bring one cable that will work for an iPad, a Nintendo Switch, and hopefully an iPhone.

USB-C is moving faster than USB-A moved because we have countless Android-based devices adopting USB-C. That's a worldwide momentum for the port interface that we never saw with USB-A after Apple adopted it. We're probably getting close to the end of CE developed when some older USB port interface type was the de facto standard. Even now you can by an automobiles that support USB-C. The only thing I haven't yet seen is USB-C in an automobile that will allow for a MBP (either 13" or 15") to be powered by the USB-C port.

We can argue all day as to when was the best time for Apple to have made the switch to a new port interface standard or when they should go all in, but that's old news that happened years ago. They felt it was the right time and they did it. We can choose to keep an old Mac notebook or move to a different vendor, but it's done. What I find disingenuous are people thinking that USB-C is a roadblock when it does nothing but allow for unprecedented power, speed, and protocols over a single interface.

You don't need to convince me that USB-C is a good idea - it obviously is. However, I do dispute that the transition away from USB-A as a host port is happening faster than the transition away from multiple legacy ports to USB 1 all those years ago. Yes, Android devices are adopting USB-C as a device port and that's great, but Android devices are not the only devices! There are so many rechargeable thingummybobs that ship with a recharge cable with a USB-A connector, and as previously mentioned, USB-A has become ubiquitous as a 5V DC supply standard connector in permanent installations such as mains power sockets and in cafes and airports etc., in places where the likelihood of them being replaced by USB-C anytime soon is vanishingly small. As such, countless device manufacturers will continue to ship things with recharge cables with USB-A plugs for years and years to come. And most people will continue to use memory sticks with USB-A plugs.

And, Apple has in fact not gone "all in" with USB-C; they still ship iPhones with USB-A to lightning cables; they still use lightning in iPads (non Pro) and iPhone and iPod Touch; they have USB-A ports on all their desktop machines. 

Trying to force a 100% migration away from USB-A host ports with their portable machines was a user-hostile move. Say what you like about the versatility of USB-C and the tiny-ness of adaptors, the fact remains that if someone hands you a thing with a USB-A connector, the easiest and most hassle-free way of connecting it to your machine is if your machine has a USB-A port built-in!

Soli said:

firelock said:

fastasleep said:

firelock said:

mr. h said:

fastasleep said:

danvm said:

fastasleep said:

entropys said:

I want one USB-A port instead of the fourth TB port.

i suspect that is unlikely..

Yeah, replacing modern ports with old, slow ports are what makes a real Pro computer. 

Do you think that the latest Mac Pro is not "real Pro computer" because it has USB-A ports?

No. What kind of question is that? You're talking about a basic I/O PCIe board which is an option to buy (as far as we know) on a giant machine where you're not removing built-in 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 port and replacing it with a shitty 5Gbps USB-A port, which are two completely different things.

No need to replace any of the TB3 ports. There's plenty of room in that chassis for the TB3 ports and a USBA port. And an HDMI. And an SD card slot.

What I don't get about apologists for the MacBook Pro's stupid port offering is: how is adding more ports a bad thing? Would anyone possibly be actively put off buying a MacBook Pro if it had four TB3 + USBA + HDMI + SD Card?

I was in a meeting yesterday with my MacBook Pro and someone asked if I could project a PowerPoint that had just been emailed to the group. Now when I know that I am giving a presentation I always make sure to lug along Apple’s humongous USB-C to HDMI adapter. But this was impromptu and so the answer was, no, my ridiculously expensive “pro” laptop could not connect to the industry standard HDMI cable on the table. And before someone says we should have an Apple TV or some USB-C adapter built-into the setup, keep in mind that this is a big corporation with dozens of conference rooms and an IT department that acts like it is the early 2000’s. I can barely get my Macs on the network.

Guess you won't make that mistake again.

LOL, the hyperbole — "lug" "humongous" — it's like what, a couple grams? You know there are much smaller ones, right? Throw this on your keychain and never get caught off guard again. It's $12 and tiny:

https://www.amazon.com/CHOETECH-Keychain-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Pixelbook/dp/B075FKL7MC/



You guys sure aren't very good at preparing for your jobs.

Not sure why you think it is necessary to throw shade at another poster. But you can at least try to get the point of the post which is that I shouldn't have to carry around a bunch of adapters on what is ostensibly a pro laptop. Long time Mac users will remember there was a time when the pro moniker meant it came with all of the additional ports that pro users need. And if you are just going to be a jerk please don't respond. Thank you.

You're correct, which is why USB-C is a welcome change fro, the USB-IF.

A surprisingly disingenuous post from someone such as yourself. Most of those are device-end ports, rather than host-end. I am absolutely 100% for device manufacturers to move to a USB-C connector; let's do away with all these different device-end port shapes! But for the host end, there's just two possibilities: USB-C and USB-A, and I think Apple should have both in all their machines.