canukstorm said:

clarker99 said:

avon b7 said:

flydog said:

avon b7 said:

Everybody uses off the shelf components (Apple too) but Huawei is one of the world's most vertically integrated companies too.

To take a recent development. Rumours state Apple is moving up to 2,000 engineers to get working on a new modem. Currently it uses an off the shelf part.

Huawei has built its own for years and already has a 5G modem - shipping.

Apple uses off the shelf wi-fi. Huawei has developed its own. I believe it is currently the world's fastest wi-fi chipset on a mobile device.

I could go on.

Most of your posts are hyperbole and speculation, but in any case, none of this matters to 99.9% of the people who buy smartphones.  Moreover, usable 5G service is years away. 

What does matter, then?

Apple hasn't been able to shift the needle on sales for four years now and recently took a dip.

What is Apple doing wrong or what are competitors doing better?

Keep touting your surveillance machines, man. Huawei vs Apple is not a thing. It just isnt. This is literally the same selling on specs thing that Samsung played back during the S3-S4 generation complete with a Govt back corp stealing ideas and IP. iOS user base is growing not shrinking but yes Apple needs to play the spec game. 

Your schtick is old. 

"Huawei vs Apple is not a thing. It just isnt."

It is in China, where Huawei is decimating both Apple & Samsung, and also in many countries in Europe. You're underestimating Huawei's success

"iOS user base is growing not shrinking"

That is true but where is it coming from? For the last 3 years, sales of new iPhones have been at best stagnant and at worst shrinking, which means the upgrade cycle is lengthening.  That would mean user base growth is coming from the grey market. 

gatorguy said:

clarker99 said:

avon b7 said:

Shill

Completely unnecessary. Adds nothing but distraction to the thread. Feel free to disagree but really, name-calling is what it comes down to?  

avon b7 said:

flydog said:

avon b7 said:

Everybody uses off the shelf components (Apple too) but Huawei is one of the world's most vertically integrated companies too.

To take a recent development. Rumours state Apple is moving up to 2,000 engineers to get working on a new modem. Currently it uses an off the shelf part.

Huawei has built its own for years and already has a 5G modem - shipping.

Apple uses off the shelf wi-fi. Huawei has developed its own. I believe it is currently the world's fastest wi-fi chipset on a mobile device.

I could go on.

Most of your posts are hyperbole and speculation, but in any case, none of this matters to 99.9% of the people who buy smartphones.  Moreover, usable 5G service is years away. 

What does matter, then?

Apple hasn't been able to shift the needle on sales for four years now and recently took a dip.

What is Apple doing wrong or what are competitors doing better?

avon b7 said:

clarker99 said:

avon b7 said:

corrections said:

avon b7 said:

"The state itself knows that Apple has very limited real competition with commodity Android  such as Huawei. China's affluent class uses iPhones, including Huawei's own executives, the company's brand ambassadors, and its public relations contractors-- even China's orchestrated propaganda campaigns against Apple were tweeted out by iPhone users. Apple's sales account for virtually all premium priced phones in the country. Globally, Apple sells the majority of all phones priced above $600"

Reuters reported the opposite to what is implied here regarding premium competition in China:

"Chinese smartphone firms jazz up products, seize turf in home market from Apple"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tech-smartphones-analysis/chinese-smartphone-firms-jazz-up-products-seize-turf-in-home-market-from-apple-idUSKCN1R30CS

While Apple may sell the majority of phones over $600 it seems clear that that band is being eaten into by competitors. That is the real story here.

It is also clear why Chinese users have chosen more non iPhone ultra premium phones than ever: Those phones are simply considered to be better.

Since 2017, and in spite of increasing prices, every single Huawei flagship model has broken sales records with regards to its predecessor. The P30 Pro isn't even two weeks old and pre-orders are already smashing those of the P20 Pro.

And while Ms Meng may have an iPhone (an old one at that) she also has a 2,000€ Huawei Mate RS. Which do you think is her day to day phone?

As for executives, all recent appearances have seen them using Mate X models.

Yes, I wonder if Ms Meng is using the shiny Android or the iPhone that works with her iPad and the MacBook she carries on her person everywhere, including her international flights. That's really tough to figure out. 

And breaking sales records isn't hard when you have no history of selling any significant number of premium phone sales. This Reuters "report" is pure corporate PR-BS fed directly from Huawei. 

Last summer, Huawei said its P20 flagship series sales (including ~$240 models) were up by 81% over P10 (!) hitting... 6 million in a quarter. That's barely more than a couple years of Pixel, or on par with a Samsung launch. Note that Samsung's Galaxy S sales have crashed more than that.  

Shame on you for trying to make us stupider rushing to forward some fact-free propaganda.  

"Fact free propaganda"?

Wrong on both counts.

So, in spite of Reuters citing all the information given, you bin it as "PR BS direct from Huawei". On what grounds?

What is more, they were citing, among others,  both Counterpoint and Canalys, both of whom are used as sources in numerous AI pieces during the year.

And as for facts, I will correct you:

https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-P20-sales-numbers_id105758

"UPDATE: Huawei has clarified to us that the number does not include sales of the Huawei P20 Lite. Instead, it solely represents sales of the two flagship models and can be considered an even more impressive achievement."

This means that number does NOT include ~$240 phones. In fact, Huawei shipped 10,000,000 P20 flagships in five months:

https://consumer.huawei.com/en/press/news/2018/Huawei-celebrates-10-million-huawei-p20-pro-and-p20-units-sold-globally/

Far from being fact free, nothing I wrote was even remotely in that line.

In spite of your attempts, what I wrote stands on its own two legs.

Meng was carrying a Mate RS. The entire Huawei board has been seen carrying Mate X models.

If Apple is seeing an iPhone slowdown in China, Huawei is very much one of the reasons. This is beyond doubt at this stage even if you (and basically only you) refuse to see it. The numbers are speaking for themselves and Huawei  still shows no signs of letting up (and there are indications of Honor once again getting aggressive on pricing in the mid range bands this year).

I hope you are at least being paid to be a Huawei shill. 

You have nothing to add about what I stated, then? Just labelling?

Here is a relatively balanced overview of the Huawei story. Feel free to disagree with any or all of it but no one has to be a 'shill' to see why Huawei is having a negative effect on Apple in China. You should see that clearly, whatever your reading/perspective.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/03/the-improbable-rise-of-huawei-5g-global-network-china/

And if that wasn't already enough, now this:

https://www.cnet.com/news/huawei-sets-new-goals-to-overtake-samsung-and-apple/

Overoptimistic? I think so, but it is clearly a declaration of intent.

avon b7 said:

corrections said:

avon b7 said:

"The state itself knows that Apple has very limited real competition with commodity Android  such as Huawei. China's affluent class uses iPhones, including Huawei's own executives, the company's brand ambassadors, and its public relations contractors-- even China's orchestrated propaganda campaigns against Apple were tweeted out by iPhone users. Apple's sales account for virtually all premium priced phones in the country. Globally, Apple sells the majority of all phones priced above $600"

Reuters reported the opposite to what is implied here regarding premium competition in China:

"Chinese smartphone firms jazz up products, seize turf in home market from Apple"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-tech-smartphones-analysis/chinese-smartphone-firms-jazz-up-products-seize-turf-in-home-market-from-apple-idUSKCN1R30CS

While Apple may sell the majority of phones over $600 it seems clear that that band is being eaten into by competitors. That is the real story here.

It is also clear why Chinese users have chosen more non iPhone ultra premium phones than ever: Those phones are simply considered to be better.

Since 2017, and in spite of increasing prices, every single Huawei flagship model has broken sales records with regards to its predecessor. The P30 Pro isn't even two weeks old and pre-orders are already smashing those of the P20 Pro.

And while Ms Meng may have an iPhone (an old one at that) she also has a 2,000€ Huawei Mate RS. Which do you think is her day to day phone?

As for executives, all recent appearances have seen them using Mate X models.

Yes, I wonder if Ms Meng is using the shiny Android or the iPhone that works with her iPad and the MacBook she carries on her person everywhere, including her international flights. That's really tough to figure out. 

And breaking sales records isn't hard when you have no history of selling any significant number of premium phone sales. This Reuters "report" is pure corporate PR-BS fed directly from Huawei. 

Last summer, Huawei said its P20 flagship series sales (including ~$240 models) were up by 81% over P10 (!) hitting... 6 million in a quarter. That's barely more than a couple years of Pixel, or on par with a Samsung launch. Note that Samsung's Galaxy S sales have crashed more than that.  

Shame on you for trying to make us stupider rushing to forward some fact-free propaganda.  

"Fact free propaganda"?

Wrong on both counts.

So, in spite of Reuters citing all the information given, you bin it as "PR BS direct from Huawei". On what grounds?

What is more, they were citing, among others,  both Counterpoint and Canalys, both of whom are used as sources in numerous AI pieces during the year.

And as for facts, I will correct you:

https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-P20-sales-numbers_id105758

"UPDATE: Huawei has clarified to us that the number does not include sales of the Huawei P20 Lite. Instead, it solely represents sales of the two flagship models and can be considered an even more impressive achievement."

This means that number does NOT include ~$240 phones. In fact, Huawei shipped 10,000,000 P20 flagships in five months:

https://consumer.huawei.com/en/press/news/2018/Huawei-celebrates-10-million-huawei-p20-pro-and-p20-units-sold-globally/

Far from being fact free, nothing I wrote was even remotely in that line.

In spite of your attempts, what I wrote stands on its own two legs.

Meng was carrying a Mate RS. The entire Huawei board has been seen carrying Mate X models.

If Apple is seeing an iPhone slowdown in China, Huawei is very much one of the reasons. This is beyond doubt at this stage even if you (and basically only you) refuse to see it. The numbers are speaking for themselves and Huawei  still shows no signs of letting up (and there are indications of Honor once again getting aggressive on pricing in the mid range bands this year).