What I described has been happening in our industry, for years, this is nothing new. But you need to have actually worked in it for a long time to see it. I'm sorry, but there are no "facts" you speak of in this thread, merely opinions and regurgitations people read on a blog somewhere. Oh, and that they hate flash.
You can yell you hate flash all you like. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm sure it pisses you off to no end. HTML5 won't kill flash, other factors will. But it takes a little more understanding to know what that means.
And you can yell you love flash all you like. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm sure it pisses you off to no end. HTML5 will kill flash, it's already inevitable. But it takes a little more understanding to know what that means.
And you can yell you love flash all you like. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm sure it pisses you off to no end. HTML5 will kill flash, it's already inevitable. But it takes a little more understanding to know what that means.
see, there is your problem. I never said I love flash in my post. I merely recognize what's happening, and it seems in your blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs, you also missed I'm well aware that flash could very well die. I think you need to take a deep breath, and reread what was posted.
Not everything is 'you're either with us or against us'. SOmetimes there's some reason and rational opinions in between there as well. Which threads like this could use a little more of from the looks of things...
see, there is your problem. I never said I love flash in my post. I merely recognize what's happening, and it seems in your blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs, you also missed I'm well aware that flash could very well die. I think you need to take a deep breath, and reread what was posted. ...
You misunderstand me completely. Although I am, for entirely objective reasons, convinced that Flash will die, the hostile nature of my rhetoric against it has nothing to do with a, 'blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs," (But, it's interesting how some people are only able to conceive someone could be against their favorite technology because of SJ's opinion. Sometimes I think what he says and thinks is of much more importance to the 'haters' than to people who like Apple.) but is based on a deep-seated, long-standing dislike of Flash as a technology. I've 'hated' it for years, but only recently become convinced that we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
There are hundreds of thousands many times over of sites that use flash, and that are being churned out still, with no sign of slowing.
That is patently false. "No signs of slowing" BS
Not too long ago, YouTube was listed as a reason Flash was necessary. No longer.
NBC, CBS, NY Times, and others were listed as reasons why Flash was necessary. No longer.
Hulu was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They're not there yet, but Hulu has promised an iPad version soon.
Farmville was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They are planning an iPad version.
Car dealers were once 100% Flash and unoperable on iPhones. Most of them work on iPhones now.
Just about every week, there's a new announcement of some formerly Flash-based web site that's offering a Flash-free version.
Meanwhile, can you point to any sites that did not use Flash in the past but are now starting? After all, you claim that Flash's growth shows no signs of slowing.
Let's break this down. I state that HTML5 video uses LESS resources than Flash video on the same 1080p video on YouTube.
Question about the video: I didn't see the white square which indicates that hardware acceleration is in effect for Flash. Does your laptop have a supported GPU(and was it the active GPU), and were you running 10.6.3?
You misunderstand me completely. Although I am, for entirely objective reasons, convinced that Flash will die, the hostile nature of my rhetoric against it has nothing to do with a, 'blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs," (But, it's interesting how some people are only able to conceive someone could be against their favorite technology because of SJ's opinion. Sometimes I think what he says and thinks is of much more importance to the 'haters' than to people who like Apple.) but is based on a deep-seated, long-standing dislike of Flash as a technology. I've 'hated' it for years, but only recently become convinced that we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
that still doesn't explain how, or even why you completely mis read my post. I really don't care if you hate flash, or if you believe yourself objective despite your hatred.
I do like flash, as I do very much like css and javascript (doing a project right now as a matter of fact...) but I don't for a minute think it's any reason to believe flash will survive the next 5 years at all. I'm simply not that narcissistic.
Not too long ago, YouTube was listed as a reason Flash was necessary. No longer.
NBC, CBS, NY Times, and others were listed as reasons why Flash was necessary. No longer.
Hulu was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They're not there yet, but Hulu has promised an iPad version soon.
Farmville was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They are planning an iPad version.
Car dealers were once 100% Flash and unoperable on iPhones. Most of them work on iPhones now.
Just about every week, there's a new announcement of some formerly Flash-based web site that's offering a Flash-free version.
Meanwhile, can you point to any sites that did not use Flash in the past but are now starting? After all, you claim that Flash's growth shows no signs of slowing.
Why because -you say so? pffffffft. ok anonymous dude on a forum. LOL.
you're simply listing a handful of major sites. All sites, that never used flash for video at a time flash still was dominate in the interactive world and enjoyed 98% plugin penetration.
I think you're getting excited over a flurry of press releases, and I can understand why...
However, if you simply see flash a method of video delivery, well that would explain your confusion.
For the other aspects of Flash it'll be a long time before webcode can begin to compete any of many levels, but it seems that isn't much of an issue either.
Flash is no good on a phone because it offers no advantage for that screen size. Flash has its uses, just not on a phone.
People around here keep saying that mobile is the wave of the future, but I spend 8 hours a day at the office in front of huge desktop monitors. I find it really difficult to create anything substantial with a tiny little mobile device. Mobile is for consuming media when you are bored waiting for a plane. I am into creating things and I am never bored. The millions of normal people who go to work in an office everyday aren't writing memos, business plans, engineering diagrams, scientific research etc using their phone. Those are the people who are creating. They are not sitting around watching YouTube on their iPhone while they are at work. And when they go home, they have families and home responsibilities. They aren't watching videos on their phone. They watch their big screen TV.
I see lots of young people walking down the sidewalk staring into their phone. If that is the future, then I'm going to be very disappointed.
Flash is no good on a phone because it offers no advantage for that screen size. Flash has its uses, just not on a phone.
People around here keep saying that mobile is the wave of the future, but I spend 8 hours a day at the office in front of huge desktop monitors. I find it really difficult to create anything substantial with a tiny little mobile device. Mobile is for consuming media when you are bored waiting for a plane. I am into creating things and I am never bored. The millions of normal people who go to work in an office everyday aren't writing memos, business plans, engineering diagrams, scientific research etc using their phone. Those are the people who are creating. They are not sitting around watching YouTube on their iPhone while they are at work. And when they go home, they have families and home responsibilities. They aren't watching videos on their phone. They watch their big screen TV.
I see lots of young people walking down the sidewalk staring into their phone. If that is the future, then I'm going to be very disappointed.
Meanwhile, can you point to any sites that did not use Flash in the past but are now starting? After all, you claim that Flash's growth shows no signs of slowing.
There was a survey recently showing Obj-C promgramming rapidly. I wonder if anyone woke up today and said "I think it woul be a smart career move to learn Flash"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl
Question about the video: I didn't see the white square which indicates that hardware acceleration is in effect for Flash. Does your laptop have a supported GPU, and where you running 10.6.3?
Good question. I need to edit the info when I get home. That is from the official release of Flash 10.1 without HW acceleration. With HW acceleration Flash drops from using 6x the CPU as HTML to 3x. Still a lot, but a huge improvement.
This does not mean that it's become vastly more efficient for the system, just that the processing isn't being done by the CPU. But we'll need relative battery test to determine what if any power savings are had.
Hopefully they finally include Core Animation to The next Flash beta, which will really show HTML5 Canvas and CSS 3D who's boss. Those open standards can't use Core Anomation the way Flash can and will have to wait until WebGL matures to compete on that level. The problem is Adobe keeps dropping the ball.
PS: When I did the test unwashed exhausted with insomnia and had un/installed the Flash plug-in many times that day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube
All sites, that never used flash for video at a time flash still was dominate in the interactive world and enjoyed 98% plugin penetration.
AOL and Real both claimed excessive penetration and installations long after they lost.
AOL and Real both claimed excessive penetration and installations long after they lost.
granted, however, real was only a video delivery system, which is pretty easily knocked out if you think about it, and never attained the level of plugin adoption flash did.
There was a survey recently showing Obj-C promgramming rapidly. I wonder if anyone woke up today and said "I think it woul be a smart career move to learn Flash"?
Unfortunately they don't show the deltas for languages outside the top 20:
There was a survey recently showing Obj-C promgramming rapidly. I wonder if anyone woke up today and said "I think it woul be a smart career move to learn Flash"?
I guess you don't follow the industry much. There was a segment on the nightly news a couple years ago on the fact that there was a severe shortage of flash developers. I guess that's why we made a shitload of money.
I agree. Longevity is no guarantee of anything in the computer business. In some respects longevity can be a detriment. Because often companies work to maintain their current business when everything around them is changing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
.AOL and Real both claimed excessive penetration and installations long after they lost.
I guess you don't follow the industry much. There was a segment on the nightly news a couple years ago on the fact that there was a severe shortage of flash developers. I guess that's why we made a shitload of money.
A couple of years ago? I think you just made his point.
A couple of years ago? I think you just made his point.
once again, if you worked in the industry, you'd know that has not changed. Certainly not yet anyway, and there aren't any real signs of it. Just because some companies are using another form of video delivery, doesn't mean the main uses of flash, has stopped.
I began focusing on other technologies some time ago, before this iphone and apple hates flash crisis began.
Hopefully they finally include Core Animation to The next Flash beta, which will really show HTML5 Canvas and CSS 3D who's boss. Those open standards can't use Core Anomation the way Flash can and will have to wait until WebGL matures to compete on that level. The problem is Adobe keeps dropping the ball.
I think 10.1 as-shipped supports Core Animation, at least when the browser does.
Quote:
PS: When I did the test unwashed exhausted with insomnia and had un/installed the Flash plug-in many times that day.
Half the CPU usage (Gala vs 10.1) is nice, but some testers were actually doing better than browser HTML5 performance.. So there are definitely a lot of variables at work.
Comments
What I described has been happening in our industry, for years, this is nothing new. But you need to have actually worked in it for a long time to see it. I'm sorry, but there are no "facts" you speak of in this thread, merely opinions and regurgitations people read on a blog somewhere. Oh, and that they hate flash.
You can yell you hate flash all you like. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm sure it pisses you off to no end. HTML5 won't kill flash, other factors will. But it takes a little more understanding to know what that means.
And you can yell you love flash all you like. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm sure it pisses you off to no end. HTML5 will kill flash, it's already inevitable. But it takes a little more understanding to know what that means.
And you can yell you love flash all you like. It doesn't mean a damn thing, and I'm sure it pisses you off to no end. HTML5 will kill flash, it's already inevitable. But it takes a little more understanding to know what that means.
see, there is your problem. I never said I love flash in my post. I merely recognize what's happening, and it seems in your blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs, you also missed I'm well aware that flash could very well die. I think you need to take a deep breath, and reread what was posted.
Not everything is 'you're either with us or against us'. SOmetimes there's some reason and rational opinions in between there as well. Which threads like this could use a little more of from the looks of things...
see, there is your problem. I never said I love flash in my post. I merely recognize what's happening, and it seems in your blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs, you also missed I'm well aware that flash could very well die. I think you need to take a deep breath, and reread what was posted. ...
You misunderstand me completely. Although I am, for entirely objective reasons, convinced that Flash will die, the hostile nature of my rhetoric against it has nothing to do with a, 'blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs," (But, it's interesting how some people are only able to conceive someone could be against their favorite technology because of SJ's opinion. Sometimes I think what he says and thinks is of much more importance to the 'haters' than to people who like Apple.) but is based on a deep-seated, long-standing dislike of Flash as a technology. I've 'hated' it for years, but only recently become convinced that we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
There are hundreds of thousands many times over of sites that use flash, and that are being churned out still, with no sign of slowing.
That is patently false. "No signs of slowing" BS
Not too long ago, YouTube was listed as a reason Flash was necessary. No longer.
NBC, CBS, NY Times, and others were listed as reasons why Flash was necessary. No longer.
Hulu was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They're not there yet, but Hulu has promised an iPad version soon.
Farmville was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They are planning an iPad version.
Car dealers were once 100% Flash and unoperable on iPhones. Most of them work on iPhones now.
Just about every week, there's a new announcement of some formerly Flash-based web site that's offering a Flash-free version.
Meanwhile, can you point to any sites that did not use Flash in the past but are now starting? After all, you claim that Flash's growth shows no signs of slowing.
Let's break this down. I state that HTML5 video uses LESS resources than Flash video on the same 1080p video on YouTube.
Question about the video: I didn't see the white square which indicates that hardware acceleration is in effect for Flash. Does your laptop have a supported GPU(and was it the active GPU), and were you running 10.6.3?
You misunderstand me completely. Although I am, for entirely objective reasons, convinced that Flash will die, the hostile nature of my rhetoric against it has nothing to do with a, 'blind zeal for all things Steve Jobs," (But, it's interesting how some people are only able to conceive someone could be against their favorite technology because of SJ's opinion. Sometimes I think what he says and thinks is of much more importance to the 'haters' than to people who like Apple.) but is based on a deep-seated, long-standing dislike of Flash as a technology. I've 'hated' it for years, but only recently become convinced that we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
that still doesn't explain how, or even why you completely mis read my post. I really don't care if you hate flash, or if you believe yourself objective despite your hatred.
I do like flash, as I do very much like css and javascript (doing a project right now as a matter of fact...) but I don't for a minute think it's any reason to believe flash will survive the next 5 years at all. I'm simply not that narcissistic.
That is patently false. "No signs of slowing" BS
Not too long ago, YouTube was listed as a reason Flash was necessary. No longer.
NBC, CBS, NY Times, and others were listed as reasons why Flash was necessary. No longer.
Hulu was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They're not there yet, but Hulu has promised an iPad version soon.
Farmville was listed as a reason why Flash was necessary. They are planning an iPad version.
Car dealers were once 100% Flash and unoperable on iPhones. Most of them work on iPhones now.
Just about every week, there's a new announcement of some formerly Flash-based web site that's offering a Flash-free version.
Meanwhile, can you point to any sites that did not use Flash in the past but are now starting? After all, you claim that Flash's growth shows no signs of slowing.
Why because -you say so? pffffffft. ok anonymous dude on a forum. LOL.
you're simply listing a handful of major sites. All sites, that never used flash for video at a time flash still was dominate in the interactive world and enjoyed 98% plugin penetration.
I think you're getting excited over a flurry of press releases, and I can understand why...
However, if you simply see flash a method of video delivery, well that would explain your confusion.
Why because -you say so? pffffffft. ok anonymous dude on a forum. LOL. ...
So, apparently, his name really is Groovetube. Guess his parents had a sense of humor.
So, apparently, his name really is Groovetube. Guess his parents had a sense of humor.
well at least the discussion got a little more intelligent!
For the other aspects of Flash it'll be a long time before webcode can begin to compete any of many levels, but it seems that isn't much of an issue either.
Flash is no good on a phone because it offers no advantage for that screen size. Flash has its uses, just not on a phone.
People around here keep saying that mobile is the wave of the future, but I spend 8 hours a day at the office in front of huge desktop monitors. I find it really difficult to create anything substantial with a tiny little mobile device. Mobile is for consuming media when you are bored waiting for a plane. I am into creating things and I am never bored. The millions of normal people who go to work in an office everyday aren't writing memos, business plans, engineering diagrams, scientific research etc using their phone. Those are the people who are creating. They are not sitting around watching YouTube on their iPhone while they are at work. And when they go home, they have families and home responsibilities. They aren't watching videos on their phone. They watch their big screen TV.
I see lots of young people walking down the sidewalk staring into their phone. If that is the future, then I'm going to be very disappointed.
Flash is no good on a phone because it offers no advantage for that screen size. Flash has its uses, just not on a phone.
People around here keep saying that mobile is the wave of the future, but I spend 8 hours a day at the office in front of huge desktop monitors. I find it really difficult to create anything substantial with a tiny little mobile device. Mobile is for consuming media when you are bored waiting for a plane. I am into creating things and I am never bored. The millions of normal people who go to work in an office everyday aren't writing memos, business plans, engineering diagrams, scientific research etc using their phone. Those are the people who are creating. They are not sitting around watching YouTube on their iPhone while they are at work. And when they go home, they have families and home responsibilities. They aren't watching videos on their phone. They watch their big screen TV.
I see lots of young people walking down the sidewalk staring into their phone. If that is the future, then I'm going to be very disappointed.
good post.
or +1 as they say around here.
Meanwhile, can you point to any sites that did not use Flash in the past but are now starting? After all, you claim that Flash's growth shows no signs of slowing.
There was a survey recently showing Obj-C promgramming rapidly. I wonder if anyone woke up today and said "I think it woul be a smart career move to learn Flash"?
Question about the video: I didn't see the white square which indicates that hardware acceleration is in effect for Flash. Does your laptop have a supported GPU, and where you running 10.6.3?
Good question. I need to edit the info when I get home. That is from the official release of Flash 10.1 without HW acceleration. With HW acceleration Flash drops from using 6x the CPU as HTML to 3x. Still a lot, but a huge improvement.
This does not mean that it's become vastly more efficient for the system, just that the processing isn't being done by the CPU. But we'll need relative battery test to determine what if any power savings are had.
Hopefully they finally include Core Animation to The next Flash beta, which will really show HTML5 Canvas and CSS 3D who's boss. Those open standards can't use Core Anomation the way Flash can and will have to wait until WebGL matures to compete on that level. The problem is Adobe keeps dropping the ball.
PS: When I did the test unwashed exhausted with insomnia and had un/installed the Flash plug-in many times that day.
All sites, that never used flash for video at a time flash still was dominate in the interactive world and enjoyed 98% plugin penetration.
AOL and Real both claimed excessive penetration and installations long after they lost.
I see lots of young people walking down the sidewalk staring into their phone. If that is the future, then I'm going to be very disappointed.
AOL and Real both claimed excessive penetration and installations long after they lost.
granted, however, real was only a video delivery system, which is pretty easily knocked out if you think about it, and never attained the level of plugin adoption flash did.
There was a survey recently showing Obj-C promgramming rapidly. I wonder if anyone woke up today and said "I think it woul be a smart career move to learn Flash"?
Unfortunately they don't show the deltas for languages outside the top 20:
http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/conte...pci/index.html
There was a survey recently showing Obj-C promgramming rapidly. I wonder if anyone woke up today and said "I think it woul be a smart career move to learn Flash"?
I guess you don't follow the industry much. There was a segment on the nightly news a couple years ago on the fact that there was a severe shortage of flash developers. I guess that's why we made a shitload of money.
.AOL and Real both claimed excessive penetration and installations long after they lost.
I guess you don't follow the industry much. There was a segment on the nightly news a couple years ago on the fact that there was a severe shortage of flash developers. I guess that's why we made a shitload of money.
A couple of years ago? I think you just made his point.
A couple of years ago? I think you just made his point.
once again, if you worked in the industry, you'd know that has not changed. Certainly not yet anyway, and there aren't any real signs of it. Just because some companies are using another form of video delivery, doesn't mean the main uses of flash, has stopped.
I began focusing on other technologies some time ago, before this iphone and apple hates flash crisis began.
Hopefully they finally include Core Animation to The next Flash beta, which will really show HTML5 Canvas and CSS 3D who's boss. Those open standards can't use Core Anomation the way Flash can and will have to wait until WebGL matures to compete on that level. The problem is Adobe keeps dropping the ball.
I think 10.1 as-shipped supports Core Animation, at least when the browser does.
PS: When I did the test unwashed exhausted with insomnia and had un/installed the Flash plug-in many times that day.
Half the CPU usage (Gala vs 10.1) is nice, but some testers were actually doing better than browser HTML5 performance.. So there are definitely a lot of variables at work.