Inside iCloud: Apple's new Documents & Data cloud service

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  • ruckerzruckerz Posts: 58member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post


    If you are willing to live with iDisk's performance and limitations, why would you hate Dropbox which has better performance and less limitations?



    It's yet another app I have to install (which surprisingly requires administrator privileges) . I enjoyed iDisk because it was an all-in-one solution that automatically came with the OS.
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macslut View Post


    He's got an iPad, and he's monkeying around at Yosemite? I guess that's ok if you're at the Awahnee having El Capitinis while on the WiFi.



    I'm at Curry Village having my packed lunch while on my MBP. I merely updated my iPad and IPhone.



    I planned to hike Mist Trail today but it's closed. Still not sure why or when it will be open. Decided to do some studying and hike a different trail later in the afternoon.



    The point is that the internet and the modern world is awesome!
  • noirdesirnoirdesir Posts: 1,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruckerz View Post


    It's yet another app I have to install (which surprisingly requires administrator privileges) . I enjoyed iDisk because it was an all-in-one solution that automatically came with the OS.



    iDisk is a service running on top of OS X, same as Dropbox. If you such an aversion to anything third-party, I would have to assume you are missing out on a lot of useful third-party apps. I have about 400 third-party applications (plus a dozen or so preference panes) on my computer, don't see a problem with them.
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruckerz View Post


    It's yet another app I have to install (which surprisingly requires administrator privileges).



    It's not surprising at all. It adds features that integrate into Finder.
  • ruckerzruckerz Posts: 58member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    It's not surprising at all. It adds features that integrate into Finder.



    I never enjoyed programs that installed outside of /Users/myusername. Heck I get annoyed with .pkg installers that install to /Applications. (I'd rather much have a mountable dmg with an application bundle that I can drag to my desktop).



    If I wanted third parties to spew files all over my system, I'd go back to Windows.
  • noirdesirnoirdesir Posts: 1,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruckerz View Post


    I never enjoyed programs that installed outside of /Users/myusername. Heck I get annoyed with .pkg installers that install to /Applications. (I'd rather much have a mountable dmg with an application bundle that I can drag to my desktop).



    If I wanted third parties to spew files all over my system, I'd go back to Windows.



    Yeah, the former xxx are usually the most radical (eg, ex-smokers can be the most radical anti-smoking people). Hey, it is really pretty difficult to affect an OS X much with anything third-party and Dropbox is really known as a very, very stable thing.



    And let me correct you, you meant to say: 'if I wanted to deal with issues caused by third parties spewing files all over my system, I'd go back to Windows'. If they don't cause issues, there is no point at all to care where the files are (unless you are anal-retentive about keeping the file number and disk usage as low as possible).
  • ameldrum1ameldrum1 Posts: 237member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruckerz View Post


    Just as I thought. Users are unable to save arbitrary files into the cloud. I was using iDisk as a remote data store when collecting data (on computers that were not Apple's) and then having it sync to my home compter. Now I can't do this. In order to use iCloud, the data must be saved by the app internally and use Apple's API.



    As much as I hate it, Dropbox will stick around on this computer when iDisk goes away.



    Why do you hate Dropbox? (Given it oozes awesomeness; especially compared to iDisk's patheticity)
  • aizmovaizmov Posts: 987member
    Shame about the loss of iDisk
  • lighteningkidlighteningkid Posts: 361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post


    Why do you hate Dropbox? (Given it oozes awesomeness; especially compared to iDisk's patheticity)



    "Patheticity"? I call shenanigans.
  • bongobongo Posts: 158member
    As noted by API Evangelist, iCloud can store both apps' documents and "key-value data," which could include application state (allowing apps on various devices to sync their behaviors, such as resuming the same playback point in a video player app on another device), settings and "other important information that delivers a better user experience. Although not as apparent to the end-user, key-value storage will be just as important as document storage," the site notes.



    "The iCloud service handles storage searches, change notifications, version control, conflicts, and security for applications that integrate with a user?s iCloud storage account," that site reports, concluding "neither document storage or key-value storage in the cloud are anything new. But when it is implemented as part of the IOS platform, it becomes much bigger. Apple is solving everyday problems users face when using their smart phones, by storing data centrally in the cloud."








    Can someone beter explain this part,maybe someone wh has worked wit cloud?
  • quinneyquinney Posts: 2,455member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm at Curry Village having my packed lunch while on my MBP. I merely updated my iPad and IPhone.



    I planned to hike Mist Trail today but it's closed. Still not sure why or when it will be open. Decided to do some studying and hike a different trail later in the afternoon.



    The point is that the internet and the modern world is awesome!



    You're killin' me. Of all places to devalue that word, why did you have to use it there?

    If you find the internet more profoundly reverential and inspirational than the natural

    beauty at Yosemite...



    I'll stop now. Have a nice day.



    Edit: the trail might be closed because they are looking for the bodies of some dumbshits who fell after climbing over the rail at Vernal Falls on July 19.
  • lighteningkidlighteningkid Posts: 361member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I'm at Curry Village having my packed lunch while on my MBP. I merely updated my iPad and IPhone.



    I planned to hike Mist Trail today but it's closed. Still not sure why or when it will be open. Decided to do some studying and hike a different trail later in the afternoon.



    The point is that the internet and the modern world is awesome!



    You were going on a hike with a MBP, iPad, and iPhone? Isn't that a lot of weight in your iBackpack during your iHike? Not to mention the water, sunscreen, bugspray, camera...
  • shenshen Posts: 434member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post


    Why do you hate Dropbox? (Given it oozes awesomeness; especially compared to iDisk's patheticity)



    I have only attempted to use it 4 times, 3 different machines. Each time it accepts the files I wish to share, and then promptly deletes them. Since the files where effectively moved rather than copied, the work was lost.



    Maybe dropbox is all kinds of wonderful, but it has never worked for me yet, and it didn't look like it needed a lot of setup, so i just don't see how I could have messed it up. You drop a file into it, right? And then it is eaten like the missing socks. Biggest POS since windows ME in my testing...
  • scottyoscottyo Posts: 45member
    "Just works" is fine when it does.



    A week or two ago, in order to try out iWork.com, I had to change the email address attached to my AppleID, because the old address (in Japan) is defunct now that we live in Washington, and iWork.com needed to send me a confirmation email. So I did.



    Looked fine, until 3-4 days ago, when the App Store (or one of those quasi-cloudy Apple network things) challenged me to confirm my payment details (this was for free updates to free iOS software "bought" through that account). I cannot find any way to get past this challenge, no matter what variations I try in filling the form.



    Sent email to iTunes support, got back a response, that, though pleasant and thoughtful, ultimately said "if you're not able to fix it without our further help, we won't either". Then they suggest PayPal accounts (don't want one, too much of my info is public already), or iTunes Store Gift Cards as the "solution". Have already spent about 4 hours on this, not looking forward to going through all of Support's suggestions. Something like this has happened 3 times in past, IIRC. Since I had no money at stake in past, I just abandoned the old account and created a new one.



    But think about their "final solutions": if I can't get back into my account, I can't update either bought or free Apps. Probably can't reload any Purchased music I happen to mislay. Not sure if Home Sharing will stop working (I haven't really used it much), or Genius, etc. Can't update Xcode next time around. Probably can't Find My Iphone, and even if I can, may not be able to add new devices to the coven.



    My thought on iCloud: there are two agendas, one for you and one for Apple.



    Yours: keep all your stuff available to all your devices and safe "for all time".



    Apple's: "Monetize" you.



    If the agendas stop matching up well--as in it's too much work for Tech Support to restore your account, or Apple decides to drop some iCloud service and leave you hanging, or they start charging for something that used to be free, or charge more than before for something--they win, you lose. Probably no recourse.



    Of course, none of that would ever happen.
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post


    You were going on a hike with a MBP, iPad, and iPhone? Isn't that a lot of weight in your iBackpack during your iHike? Not to mention the water, sunscreen, bugspray, camera...



    I don't need sunscreen. I were a solar panel body suit I made that will charge all the devices in my iBackpack as I walk. The output was low until I added coils of metal around the suit at the upper thigh that generate electricity as they brush across each other.



    Seriously though, I'll be doing a 5 hour hike starting in the next 10 minutes so I'm not exactly ruining an opportunity here.



    PS: The Ahwahnee hotel is over $500 per night. Lots of luxury in this park.
  • solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shen View Post


    I have only attempted to use it 4 times, 3 different machines. Each time it accepts the files I wish to share, and then promptly deletes them. Since the files where effectively moved rather than copied, the work was lost.



    Maybe dropbox is all kinds of wonderful, but it has never worked for me yet, and it didn't look like it needed a lot of setup, so i just don't see how I could have messed it up. You drop a file into it, right? And then it is eaten like the missing socks. Biggest POS since windows ME in my testing...



    1) If you remove the files from one machine it removes them from all machines. That's how it's designed to work. For each folder you have across your 'PCs' or shared folders across 'PCs' it makes them act as if they are a single file. IOW, if you share a file to a friend but the folder is shared with another friend who deletes it because he didn't want the file it will be removed from all systems sharing that folder.



    2) Dropbox has a built in system of file recovery that will allow you to retrieve deleted files for up to 30 days. If you are a pay Dropbox customer that retrieval process is extended indefinitely. You can do a permanent delete of a file but you have to show deleted files and then do a permanent delete. It's much like using Trash/Recycle Bin.



    3) I can't fault you for not knowing how to use Dropbox since I know many people in the "tech industry" that don't understand how it works even after multiple explanations. it's a new paradigm in the way it keeps your files in sync and that seems to confuse people. It's powerful and simple but it does require understanding to use correctly. This is why Apple's app-focused solution with iCloud is in many ways better.
  • noirdesirnoirdesir Posts: 1,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottyo View Post


    Sent email to iTunes support, got back a response, that, though pleasant and thoughtful, ultimately said "if you're not able to fix it without our further help, we won't either". Then they suggest PayPal accounts (don't want one, too much of my info is public already), or iTunes Store Gift Cards as the "solution". Have already spent about 4 hours on this, not looking forward to going through all of Support's suggestions. Something like this has happened 3 times in past, IIRC. Since I had no money at stake in past, I just abandoned the old account and created a new one.



    If all you need to keep your account open is to do a one-time purchase of a gift card, this is a rather cheap price for the whole service.
  • anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 17,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post


    "Patheticity"? I call shenanigans.



    I love it! Right up there with strategery!



    Vocabulated. (Added to my vocabulary, in case you're wondering).
  • noirdesirnoirdesir Posts: 1,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    3) I can't fault you for not knowing how to use Dropbox since I know many people in the "tech industry" that don't understand how it works even after multiple explanations. it's a new paradigm in the way it keeps your files in sync and that seems to confuse people. It's powerful and simple but it does require understanding to use correctly. This is why Apple's app-focused solution with iCloud is in many ways better.



    I don't understand what is so difficult about Dropbox. It is a folder, that. is. the. same. on. all. computers/devices.
  • anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 17,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scottyo View Post


    "Just works" is fine when it does.



    A week or two ago, in order to try out iWork.com, I had to change the email address attached to my AppleID, because the old address (in Japan) is defunct now that we live in Washington, and iWork.com needed to send me a confirmation email. So I did.



    Looked fine, until 3-4 days ago, when the App Store (or one of those quasi-cloudy Apple network things) challenged me to confirm my payment details (this was for free updates to free iOS software "bought" through that account). I cannot find any way to get past this challenge, no matter what variations I try in filling the form.



    Sent email to iTunes support, got back a response, that, though pleasant and thoughtful, ultimately said "if you're not able to fix it without our further help, we won't either". Then they suggest PayPal accounts (don't want one, too much of my info is public already), or iTunes Store Gift Cards as the "solution". Have already spent about 4 hours on this, not looking forward to going through all of Support's suggestions. Something like this has happened 3 times in past, IIRC. Since I had no money at stake in past, I just abandoned the old account and created a new one.



    But think about their "final solutions": if I can't get back into my account, I can't update either bought or free Apps. Probably can't reload any Purchased music I happen to mislay. Not sure if Home Sharing will stop working (I haven't really used it much), or Genius, etc. Can't update Xcode next time around. Probably can't Find My Iphone, and even if I can, may not be able to add new devices to the coven.



    My thought on iCloud: there are two agendas, one for you and one for Apple.



    Yours: keep all your stuff available to all your devices and safe "for all time".



    Apple's: "Monetize" you.



    If the agendas stop matching up well--as in it's too much work for Tech Support to restore your account, or Apple decides to drop some iCloud service and leave you hanging, or they start charging for something that used to be free, or charge more than before for something--they win, you lose. Probably no recourse.



    Of course, none of that would ever happen.



    Hmmm. Interesting issues you raise there.



    On the username front, depending on which Apple service I use (I now can't keep track, tbh, so I try both), it kicks it back either when using myname@me.com or myname@mac.com. A tad frustrating.
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