I still don't see why Apple doesn't automatically give people 3 years of warranty + 1 year of phone support, and just use AppleCare to extend them both to 5 years.
Kinda gives you a better feel of 'our computers last longer.'
Build your own smart phone solution and provide it. Ask Samsung, HTC, MMI and everyone else to do it as well.
I still don't see why Apple doesn't automatically give people 3 years of warranty + 1 year of phone support, and just use AppleCare to extend them both to 5 years.
Kinda gives you a better feel of 'our computers last longer.'
Wow, sounds like you have never owned a company. Maybe you could name one other high tech company that gives out that kind of warranty...Didn't think so. The current warranty is good enough.
No other company offers that, so why should Apple?
I do think one year as standard is a bit stingy. Apple products are not exactly cheap. They are luxury items for most people so they should get at least 2 years warranty.
I buy all my Apple kit from the department store John Lewis who give you a 2 year warranty as standard for free. Much better than the 1 year you get at the AppleStore.
Italian ladies are soooooo gorgeous with the long hair, stylish clothes and figures to die for.
But seriously, it's the law. Why is Apple even bothering to appeal. The EU law is very clear on this matter.
Apple isn't appealing the 2 year coverage required by law, they are appealing the result of the case.
It's my understanding AppleCare goes above and beyond what is required by law. Perhaps not by much and probably not worth it to most but that makes me wonder why anyone in those countries would pay for AC in the first place. Shouldn't they be aware of what coverage they are guaranteed by law?
Apple isn't appealing the 2 year coverage required by law, they are appealing the result of the case.
It's my understanding AppleCare goes above and beyond what is required by law. Perhaps not by much and probably not worth it to most but that makes me wonder why anyone in those countries would pay for AC in the first place. Shouldn't they be aware of what coverage they are guaranteed by law?
Isn't that the why Apple were fined - coz they mislead customers by stating that AC extended the standard 1 year warranty knowing full well that the standard warranty was 2 years. Yes maybe the customers should know this but how many people would follow this kind of stuff. You don't expect a big company like Apple to deliberately mislead you.
Isn't that the why Apple were fined - coz they mislead customers by stating that AC extended the standard 1 year warranty knowing full well that the standard warranty was 2 years. Yes maybe the customers should know this but how many people would follow this kind of stuff. You don't expect a big company like Apple to deliberately mislead you.
Yes, because it was deemed they were misleading customers but I didn't read anything that said they were not obliging by the 2 year law. And as perviously stated AC offers more than was is required by law. It's still adds some value over the current law's requirement.
But Dell really puts the war in warranty. They are a like health insurance companies; they will do whatever they can to say it's not their problem. Since Apple makes the HW and OS it's a lot harder for Apple to do, though I have yet to see them do this.
PS: Last year I accidentally dropped my iPad 2, twice, and both times Apple replaced it for free. This is really Apple finally charging for a service that was previously free and unofficial.
From what I just read on Dell's website Dell doesn't offer a 3 year warranty for free on their systems. Available yes but for free no.
Surprise, surprise. Another country with financial trouble trying to get more money out of a successful company. The Applecare warranty is about as simple as they come. Try reading it people.
If you are american, think about your country first... you're in an even worse shape.
Exactly. This is EU-wide policy. It's why 11 other EU countries have made formal complaints to Apple within the last week about the same issue of advertising AppleCare as including a 2nd year of warranty when Apple already must provide it with purchase.
While I like Apple in general, I always felt this issue was a scam. I don't even live in Europe currently but have been reading about EU Mac users complaining about this for years. By law EU consumer electronics , not all but many, have a mandatory 2 year factory warranty on hardware.
Apple played this game and won overall, as I'm sure they collected way more than 900,000 euros in the last few years by misleading customers on Applecare terms of support.
They'll probably settle in the other 11 countries and overall scammed a profit.
Lest remember that Americans ( USA not Canada ) have some of the worst consumer protection laws/warranties in the tech industry, so we should be proud of Europeans making Apple comply with their local laws.
I thought some pricer systems came with 3 years standards but it's really hard to decipher anything from Dell's website.
Quote of the day
Helping friends' or companies purchase from Dell's website is actually more painful and time consuming than a prostate exam, and you can quote me on that.
The same product changes prices or has third party website coupons almost everyday. The last order I placed had coupon codes that worked but the sales tech was amazed I got the cheap prices I did.
Apple isn't appealing the 2 year coverage required by law, they are appealing the result of the case.
It's my understanding AppleCare goes above and beyond what is required by law. Perhaps not by much and probably not worth it to most but that makes me wonder why anyone in those countries would pay for AC in the first place. Shouldn't they be aware of what coverage they are guaranteed by law?
There is a reason you would pay for AC. I live in Spain, but AFAIK the coverage is the same EU-wide level. What the law says (at least in Spain, but I think it's the same in every EU country, IIRC), is:
Those 24 months coverage are as follow:
- For the first 6 months, you have unconditional coverage. If the product is defective, that defect is assumed to come from the manufacturing process (so to say), so the manufacturer has to replace the unit or repair it, at no cost for the consumer.
- For the next 18 months what you have is conditional coverage. You have to PROVE that the defect was present as a result of manufactoring process, or that it was present when you bought it.
You could complain to the seller and let him deal with the manufacturer, also.
This is, 7 months after you bought your iPad (for example) you could call Apple and say "hey, my unit is wrong, I want you to replace it, or at least fix it", and they could say you "Ok, prove that when you bought the iPad it was defective, because, you know, we think that if that was the case, you would have complained THEN".
This is, you have 6 months of real coverage, and 18 months where you depend on your seller or manufacturer's good will.
What we have in practice is that manufacturers give you one full year of unconditional coverage, and they forget about that second year. Apple was sued (and is being sued in Spain and in other countries in Europe, probably as a result of the Italian veredict) because, in their advertisement, they didn't mention the second year, when they should.
I don't understand why they didn't mention it, because the way I see it, it helps you to sell more AC. I mean, this is the reason you could buy an AC for your Apple gadget. To get a better coverage than the one the law provides. You risk paying for nothing, if your gadget work flawlessly for those 2 years, but you would save money if your gadget breaks down after the first year, or if you have to replace your battery, or whatever...
Mate, 1'2M € is f-ing peanuts, compared to the amounts of money needed to get out of this crisis in Europe. Apple screwed it, and they're being fined (probably EU wide). Period. Actually, I'd like more companies to be sued like that (Samsung comes to mind )
I once called Apple customer support to claim a repair after the one year warranty offered officially by apple in the Netherlands. A very kind woman told me that I will have to pay for it because my year of warranty was over. I inform her that by law I have the right to get 2 years warranty and without hesitation she gave the authororization for the repair. Later that year I met a guy who used to work for Apple customer service in Ireland and told me that the policy is to deny warranty repairs after the first year. If the customers mentioned about the EU law that covers for 2 years then they were instructed to authorize the repair. This to me is a very conning attitude towards the customer. That means that they will rip you off if they can. shame on Apple!
I wonder why everyone is making such a big deal of this.
Apple apparently misrepresented something under European law. It could have been a rogue employee or it could have been management's policy. In either case, they were caught, will pay a fine, and have agreed to rectify the problem.
I wonder why everyone is making such a big deal of this.
Apple apparently misrepresented something under European law. It could have been a rogue employee or it could have been management's policy. In either case, they were caught, will pay a fine, and have agreed to rectify the problem.
End of story.
Actually it's far from the end of the story with 11 more countries pushing Apple to conform to EU law at last count. They're going to have to "rectify the problem" Europe-wide. This isn't a few employees misunderstanding, it's an Apple corporate policy and something Apple has been fighting against since at least 2009. It's no secret that extended warranties are an excellent profit center for most companies. I'm not at all surprised to see Apple resisting, nor that there are others that would attempt to ignore the requirements.
There is a reason you would pay for AC. I live in Spain, but AFAIK the coverage is the same EU-wide level. What the law says (at least in Spain, but I think it's the same in every EU country, IIRC), is:
Those 24 months coverage are as follow:
- For the first 6 months, you have unconditional coverage. If the product is defective, that defect is assumed to come from the manufacturing process (so to say), so the manufacturer has to replace the unit or repair it, at no cost for the consumer.
- For the next 18 months what you have is conditional coverage. You have to PROVE that the defect was present as a result of manufactoring process, or that it was present when you bought it.
You could complain to the seller and let him deal with the manufacturer, also.
This is, 7 months after you bought your iPad (for example) you could call Apple and say "hey, my unit is wrong, I want you to replace it, or at least fix it", and they could say you "Ok, prove that when you bought the iPad it was defective, because, you know, we think that if that was the case, you would have complained THEN".
This is, you have 6 months of real coverage, and 18 months where you depend on your seller or manufacturer's good will.
What we have in practice is that manufacturers give you one full year of unconditional coverage, and they forget about that second year. Apple was sued (and is being sued in Spain and in other countries in Europe, probably as a result of the Italian veredict) because, in their advertisement, they didn't mention the second year, when they should.
I don't understand why they didn't mention it, because the way I see it, it helps you to sell more AC. I mean, this is the reason you could buy an AC for your Apple gadget. To get a better coverage than the one the law provides. You risk paying for nothing, if your gadget work flawlessly for those 2 years, but you would save money if your gadget breaks down after the first year, or if you have to replace your battery, or whatever...
Mate, 1'2M € is f-ing peanuts, compared to the amounts of money needed to get out of this crisis in Europe. Apple screwed it, and they're being fined (probably EU wide). Period. Actually, I'd like more companies to be sued like that (Samsung comes to mind )
Btw, sorry for the mediocre english.
Actually the EU directive in question puts the onus on the vendor of the product to prove that any defect is not down to them. The onus is not on the owner.
This differs to UK law which actually provides us with 7 years of "protection", the problem that we have in the UK is that after 12 months we have to demonstrate that the fault lies with the vendor and that it is not reasonable wear and tear or not the result of abuse.
With regard to Applecare in general; the policy varies from country to country. The USA offers a paid for accidental cover whereas the UK version doesn't provide accidental cover. IMO most UK customers would be better off with a 3rd party policy, unless they really believe that they will have (non-beta/version 1.0 or 2.0) software issues that only Apple can help with..
I wonder why everyone is making such a big deal of this.
Apple apparently misrepresented something under European law. It could have been a rogue employee or it could have been management's policy. In either case, they were caught, will pay a fine, and have agreed to rectify the problem.
End of story.
There is no "apparently" about it. Apple were found guilty, they appealed and lost and still refuse to comply. This doesn't strike me as an example of a rogue employer. It strikes me as being the actions of a firm that decided that the initial fines were not punitive.
Apple either have to obey the law or cease trading directly in Italy, after the paying the new rumoured fine of 300,000 EU.
The Apple resellers are, and have been happy to comply, so why shouldn't apple? If you don't agree with sovereign laws then use agents/resellers or steer clear of that country.
Comments
I still don't see why Apple doesn't automatically give people 3 years of warranty + 1 year of phone support, and just use AppleCare to extend them both to 5 years.
Kinda gives you a better feel of 'our computers last longer.'
Build your own smart phone solution and provide it. Ask Samsung, HTC, MMI and everyone else to do it as well.
Cue the Italian ladies are hairy, i hate Ferrari, Lamborghini, spaghetti and ravioli.
Italian ladies are soooooo gorgeous with the long hair, stylish clothes and figures to die for.
But seriously, it's the law. Why is Apple even bothering to appeal. The EU law is very clear on this matter.
I still don't see why Apple doesn't automatically give people 3 years of warranty + 1 year of phone support, and just use AppleCare to extend them both to 5 years.
Kinda gives you a better feel of 'our computers last longer.'
Wow, sounds like you have never owned a company. Maybe you could name one other high tech company that gives out that kind of warranty...Didn't think so. The current warranty is good enough.
No other company offers that, so why should Apple?
I do think one year as standard is a bit stingy. Apple products are not exactly cheap. They are luxury items for most people so they should get at least 2 years warranty.
I buy all my Apple kit from the department store John Lewis who give you a 2 year warranty as standard for free. Much better than the 1 year you get at the AppleStore.
Italian ladies are soooooo gorgeous with the long hair, stylish clothes and figures to die for.
But seriously, it's the law. Why is Apple even bothering to appeal. The EU law is very clear on this matter.
Apple isn't appealing the 2 year coverage required by law, they are appealing the result of the case.
It's my understanding AppleCare goes above and beyond what is required by law. Perhaps not by much and probably not worth it to most but that makes me wonder why anyone in those countries would pay for AC in the first place. Shouldn't they be aware of what coverage they are guaranteed by law?
Apple isn't appealing the 2 year coverage required by law, they are appealing the result of the case.
It's my understanding AppleCare goes above and beyond what is required by law. Perhaps not by much and probably not worth it to most but that makes me wonder why anyone in those countries would pay for AC in the first place. Shouldn't they be aware of what coverage they are guaranteed by law?
Isn't that the why Apple were fined - coz they mislead customers by stating that AC extended the standard 1 year warranty knowing full well that the standard warranty was 2 years. Yes maybe the customers should know this but how many people would follow this kind of stuff. You don't expect a big company like Apple to deliberately mislead you.
Isn't that the why Apple were fined - coz they mislead customers by stating that AC extended the standard 1 year warranty knowing full well that the standard warranty was 2 years. Yes maybe the customers should know this but how many people would follow this kind of stuff. You don't expect a big company like Apple to deliberately mislead you.
Yes, because it was deemed they were misleading customers but I didn't read anything that said they were not obliging by the 2 year law. And as perviously stated AC offers more than was is required by law. It's still adds some value over the current law's requirement.
Dell does.
- http://www.dell.com/content/topics/s...en&cs=19#3year
But Dell really puts the war in warranty. They are a like health insurance companies; they will do whatever they can to say it's not their problem. Since Apple makes the HW and OS it's a lot harder for Apple to do, though I have yet to see them do this.PS: Last year I accidentally dropped my iPad 2, twice, and both times Apple replaced it for free. This is really Apple finally charging for a service that was previously free and unofficial.
From what I just read on Dell's website Dell doesn't offer a 3 year warranty for free on their systems. Available yes but for free no.
Surprise, surprise. Another country with financial trouble trying to get more money out of a successful company. The Applecare warranty is about as simple as they come. Try reading it people.
If you are american, think about your country first... you're in an even worse shape.
From what I just read on Dell's website Dell doesn't offer a 3 year warranty for free on their systems. Available yes but for free no.
I thought some pricer systems came with 3 years standards but it's really hard to decipher anything from Dell's website.
Exactly. This is EU-wide policy. It's why 11 other EU countries have made formal complaints to Apple within the last week about the same issue of advertising AppleCare as including a 2nd year of warranty when Apple already must provide it with purchase.
While I like Apple in general, I always felt this issue was a scam. I don't even live in Europe currently but have been reading about EU Mac users complaining about this for years. By law EU consumer electronics , not all but many, have a mandatory 2 year factory warranty on hardware.
Apple played this game and won overall, as I'm sure they collected way more than 900,000 euros in the last few years by misleading customers on Applecare terms of support.
They'll probably settle in the other 11 countries and overall scammed a profit.
Lest remember that Americans ( USA not Canada ) have some of the worst consumer protection laws/warranties in the tech industry, so we should be proud of Europeans making Apple comply with their local laws.
I thought some pricer systems came with 3 years standards but it's really hard to decipher anything from Dell's website.
Quote of the day
Helping friends' or companies purchase from Dell's website is actually more painful and time consuming than a prostate exam, and you can quote me on that.
The same product changes prices or has third party website coupons almost everyday. The last order I placed had coupon codes that worked but the sales tech was amazed I got the cheap prices I did.
T
Just add the cost of apple care to the price.
Why pay more when you don't have too.
Apple is not that crazy to lose the competitive edge.
Kind of wonder why iHaters called them a walled garden.
Apple isn't appealing the 2 year coverage required by law, they are appealing the result of the case.
It's my understanding AppleCare goes above and beyond what is required by law. Perhaps not by much and probably not worth it to most but that makes me wonder why anyone in those countries would pay for AC in the first place. Shouldn't they be aware of what coverage they are guaranteed by law?
There is a reason you would pay for AC. I live in Spain, but AFAIK the coverage is the same EU-wide level. What the law says (at least in Spain, but I think it's the same in every EU country, IIRC), is:
Those 24 months coverage are as follow:
- For the first 6 months, you have unconditional coverage. If the product is defective, that defect is assumed to come from the manufacturing process (so to say), so the manufacturer has to replace the unit or repair it, at no cost for the consumer.
- For the next 18 months what you have is conditional coverage. You have to PROVE that the defect was present as a result of manufactoring process, or that it was present when you bought it.
You could complain to the seller and let him deal with the manufacturer, also.
This is, 7 months after you bought your iPad (for example) you could call Apple and say "hey, my unit is wrong, I want you to replace it, or at least fix it", and they could say you "Ok, prove that when you bought the iPad it was defective, because, you know, we think that if that was the case, you would have complained THEN".
This is, you have 6 months of real coverage, and 18 months where you depend on your seller or manufacturer's good will.
What we have in practice is that manufacturers give you one full year of unconditional coverage, and they forget about that second year. Apple was sued (and is being sued in Spain and in other countries in Europe, probably as a result of the Italian veredict) because, in their advertisement, they didn't mention the second year, when they should.
I don't understand why they didn't mention it, because the way I see it, it helps you to sell more AC. I mean, this is the reason you could buy an AC for your Apple gadget. To get a better coverage than the one the law provides. You risk paying for nothing, if your gadget work flawlessly for those 2 years, but you would save money if your gadget breaks down after the first year, or if you have to replace your battery, or whatever...
@Landcruiser
Mate, 1'2M € is f-ing peanuts, compared to the amounts of money needed to get out of this crisis in Europe. Apple screwed it, and they're being fined (probably EU wide). Period. Actually, I'd like more companies to be sued like that (Samsung comes to mind
Btw, sorry for the mediocre english.
I hope they will comply with the European rules now.
Apple apparently misrepresented something under European law. It could have been a rogue employee or it could have been management's policy. In either case, they were caught, will pay a fine, and have agreed to rectify the problem.
End of story.
I wonder why everyone is making such a big deal of this.
Apple apparently misrepresented something under European law. It could have been a rogue employee or it could have been management's policy. In either case, they were caught, will pay a fine, and have agreed to rectify the problem.
End of story.
Actually it's far from the end of the story with 11 more countries pushing Apple to conform to EU law at last count. They're going to have to "rectify the problem" Europe-wide. This isn't a few employees misunderstanding, it's an Apple corporate policy and something Apple has been fighting against since at least 2009. It's no secret that extended warranties are an excellent profit center for most companies. I'm not at all surprised to see Apple resisting, nor that there are others that would attempt to ignore the requirements.
http://www.iclarified.com/entry/comm...commentsanchor
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshaftoe
There is a reason you would pay for AC. I live in Spain, but AFAIK the coverage is the same EU-wide level. What the law says (at least in Spain, but I think it's the same in every EU country, IIRC), is:
Those 24 months coverage are as follow:
- For the first 6 months, you have unconditional coverage. If the product is defective, that defect is assumed to come from the manufacturing process (so to say), so the manufacturer has to replace the unit or repair it, at no cost for the consumer.
- For the next 18 months what you have is conditional coverage. You have to PROVE that the defect was present as a result of manufactoring process, or that it was present when you bought it.
You could complain to the seller and let him deal with the manufacturer, also.
This is, 7 months after you bought your iPad (for example) you could call Apple and say "hey, my unit is wrong, I want you to replace it, or at least fix it", and they could say you "Ok, prove that when you bought the iPad it was defective, because, you know, we think that if that was the case, you would have complained THEN".
This is, you have 6 months of real coverage, and 18 months where you depend on your seller or manufacturer's good will.
What we have in practice is that manufacturers give you one full year of unconditional coverage, and they forget about that second year. Apple was sued (and is being sued in Spain and in other countries in Europe, probably as a result of the Italian veredict) because, in their advertisement, they didn't mention the second year, when they should.
I don't understand why they didn't mention it, because the way I see it, it helps you to sell more AC. I mean, this is the reason you could buy an AC for your Apple gadget. To get a better coverage than the one the law provides. You risk paying for nothing, if your gadget work flawlessly for those 2 years, but you would save money if your gadget breaks down after the first year, or if you have to replace your battery, or whatever...
@Landcruiser
Mate, 1'2M € is f-ing peanuts, compared to the amounts of money needed to get out of this crisis in Europe. Apple screwed it, and they're being fined (probably EU wide). Period. Actually, I'd like more companies to be sued like that (Samsung comes to mind
Btw, sorry for the mediocre english.
Actually the EU directive in question puts the onus on the vendor of the product to prove that any defect is not down to them. The onus is not on the owner.
This differs to UK law which actually provides us with 7 years of "protection", the problem that we have in the UK is that after 12 months we have to demonstrate that the fault lies with the vendor and that it is not reasonable wear and tear or not the result of abuse.
With regard to Applecare in general; the policy varies from country to country. The USA offers a paid for accidental cover whereas the UK version doesn't provide accidental cover. IMO most UK customers would be better off with a 3rd party policy, unless they really believe that they will have (non-beta/version 1.0 or 2.0) software issues that only Apple can help with..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I wonder why everyone is making such a big deal of this.
Apple apparently misrepresented something under European law. It could have been a rogue employee or it could have been management's policy. In either case, they were caught, will pay a fine, and have agreed to rectify the problem.
End of story.
There is no "apparently" about it. Apple were found guilty, they appealed and lost and still refuse to comply. This doesn't strike me as an example of a rogue employer. It strikes me as being the actions of a firm that decided that the initial fines were not punitive.
Apple either have to obey the law or cease trading directly in Italy, after the paying the new rumoured fine of 300,000 EU.
The Apple resellers are, and have been happy to comply, so why shouldn't apple? If you don't agree with sovereign laws then use agents/resellers or steer clear of that country.