Apple, Microsoft and Google have been doing innovative things to a lesser or larger degree depending on your point of view (with interfaces, technological ones or otherwise).
Nokia has been doing a lot of that sort of thing about 8 years ago I believe, but they haven't done that in a while. They have been losing a lot in the past few years, just like you mentioned? but that's primarily on the phone business itself. As far as new technologisch go (SIM cards in this case) they haven't really done anything worth mentioning I believe. I could be wrong of course, but about 8 years ago all I heard (in Holland) was Nokia Nokia Nokia
You didn't list any examples. And you still seem to be confusing shiney with innovation
Apple should just do away with the sim altogether.
There was an article a while back that said that the phone carriers both here in the US and in the EU threatened to sue apple if they did away with the sims. It is there way of controlling the industry. So you could not have a true "World Phone" that would run on any network.
If there are other considerations here I certainly have read them or thought of them. I guess my final question is why isn't RiM and Nokia's designs even smaller if backwards compatibility isn't a concern?
I have zero insight on that. I don't know if their concerns center on the ability to swap sim cards, manufacturing costs, or whatever else. I was suggesting that it's pointless changing this stuff unless it actually fixes something. Otherwise why move away from what you already have? The statement about it being free isn't really true when it's just cross licensing leverage rather than truly free to use. They should just stick with what is being used already unless this does actually solve some problem in engineering or functionality. I imagine we'll see more articles on this topic anyway.
I'm quite familiar. Here, I'll break it down for you.
First of all, we can get rid of the address book and messages storage. It's a pointless feature for the future of smartphones.
(Warning: These next things are really tricky but they do require looking at how the technology works, not at the little piece of plastic)
Second, we have the IMSI. This essentially identifies the carrier and its country. This is up to 15 digits but could be shorter if using a full alpha-numeric. It's not unlike the way the Mac. However, inputting this into the phone could be reduced even more by putting most of the information onto the mobile baseband. This not only adds much needed security now afforded by the easily cloned SIM cards but reduces the amount of data the user would need to input with a vSIM.
Also, things like the OSEN, SMSC, SPN, SDN are all basic information that are coded to the carrier and country so this simple data can be part of the mobile baseband database, thus not needing to reside on a physical card.
Next we have the ICCID. This is the number you find engraved into your SIM card. It's not hidden. It can't be. It's up to 19 digits long. This would have to be inputted manually by the customer. That said, aspects of it like the country code and issuer are redundant to some parts of the IMSI as far as I can tell. Still, it's only 19 digits added once to the mobile baseband's storage and acts as the SIM's social security/tax ID number.
Finally we have the authentication key. This is unfortunately stored on physical SIMs and is passed over when SIMs are cloned. This is major issue that goes unnoticed. Again, this key could be stored on the mobile baseband so that is can authenticate with the network with added security. The vSIM would contain its own passcode that will be authenticated by the carrier against the ICCID and other data.
This system could even be smart enough to know that when you leave one country's network and enter another it would ask you if you wish to switch vSIMs. However, because this is a low-level, very secure system pushing this data to the OS layer would not be wise. The best move is to have the user restart the device in order to choose a new vSIM.
Since we're just now talking about the 4th generation of SIM card which probably wouldn't show up until 2013 what I propose is not a solution that I expect to happen overnight. I figure it's a good decade away but the move for more value and security in our communication devices means the physical SIM card will eventually go away. There will be opposition, but it will be from carriers because of control, not people who say they have to have a physical SIM card the way people say they have to have an ODD in case they need to reinstall an program.
1) Incorporating vSIM doesn't mean the physical SIM would go away immediately. In fact, the only way this would work would be to have a couple generations of both system in place.
2) I'm in favour of the SIM. A vSIM is still a SIM. It offers all the same useful features except it adds more security and convenience.
But Apple wasn't putting their Macs on the floppy drive makers's networks. It's a very different situation.
apple needs to progress. They shouldn't let carriers stop them. This is actually a good post.
There was an article a while back that said that the phone carriers both here in the US and in the EU threatened to sue apple if they did away with the sims. It is there way of controlling the industry. So you could not have a true "World Phone" that would run on any network.
That would make me more determined to get rid of the sim. They are trying to lock people into shitty take what I give you deals when it comes to phone service.
So if Apple wins with their backwards compatible design it's bad. So you want Nokia or RiM to win with their incompatible design. Got it! Perfectly reasonable and objective response¡
Yeah, I didn't read far enough back up the thread this morning. Mea culpa.
No, I said I don't care who wins as long as I am still able to use multiple sim cards as I travel quite a bit and use prepaid data plans while I'm there. No where did I write I hope Rim or Nokia wins. Your just making things up. I also still don't know why we need a new standard the old mini sim is small enough.
Okay you know what if I did have to choose a new format then I would probably go with Nokias design then, at least their proposing something different.
The only thing Apple did was cut off the board around the sim, nothing original about the design what so ever. You can test it out yourself I've done it three times already, take a normal sim card, cut off the surrounding board and it will fit pefectly into a Apple 4S. A new patton for that! Oh but you can use the patton for for free, yea no shitt sherlock let me grab my scissors.
Apple should have just came out and said we prefer the current sim just smaller here are the size specs.
Heres a how to guide to make your own super special Apple sim card if you need help:
You didn't say WiFi, but that's the cardless "multi-carrier" system I'm using as a point of reference, there's nothing else close to that idea yet. You did say "The phone OS can store whatever keys are needed to get on a network." which is true, but the mechanism of moving accounts between phones and phone brands is still of concern. Then there's the matter of making you're you're not using the same line simultaneously on multiple devices, something the SIM system is designed to prevent because that causes network problems. And you have to have a system that works globally on thousands of carriers in hundreds of countries and thousands of device models, and compatible with hundreds of regulatory systems. The idea is simple, actually getting it to work so broadly takes considerable doing.
If you have never entered keys to get on your WiFi, then you're probably not secure. Sure, the computer stores the keys, but you have to have a way of getting it into the system in the first place, which is still a clumsy system.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but half the discussion here essentially revolves around how to get unique user information into a handset and the merits of various approaches.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how you couch it, we're still manually inputting the subscriber information into phones when we use SIM cards - we input by jamming a piece of plastic & metal into a hole or slot - which is about as clumsy as it gets. There's no automated system working behind the scenes to get that data into the phone, we still do it by hand.
What defines the "SIM" is the unique data. For the end user, it's irrelevant how it gets in the phone except insofar as how convenient or inconvenient it is. The argument that it's a security measure to use that little card instead os using a keyboard/UI to input the exact same data, is rather flawed, since apparently SIM cards can be cloned without too much hassle. Also, the "frequent traveller" argument in favor of physical media is overlooking the added overhead of having to carry additional physical SIM cards which can be damaged, lost or stolen. If one considers it objectively, in combination with a unique hardware identifier (akin to a MAC address) the "virtual SIM" is actually the most user-friendly option. And frankly, it's no different for the carriers - they still distribute the same information to users, just via a different medium. No extra physical media to manage, switching users/carriers/networks can be done via a simple UI selection on a phone screen. When signing up for new service, there's the one-time overhead of inputting the numbers, but even that can be streamlined via alternative local-area data input/transmission methods (local wireless or wired data connections, QR/bar codes, etc...) for which there are already existing and working standards.
Comments
Apple, Microsoft and Google have been doing innovative things to a lesser or larger degree depending on your point of view (with interfaces, technological ones or otherwise).
Nokia has been doing a lot of that sort of thing about 8 years ago I believe, but they haven't done that in a while. They have been losing a lot in the past few years, just like you mentioned? but that's primarily on the phone business itself. As far as new technologisch go (SIM cards in this case) they haven't really done anything worth mentioning I believe. I could be wrong of course, but about 8 years ago all I heard (in Holland) was Nokia Nokia Nokia
You didn't list any examples. And you still seem to be confusing shiney with innovation
Apple should just do away with the sim altogether.
There was an article a while back that said that the phone carriers both here in the US and in the EU threatened to sue apple if they did away with the sims. It is there way of controlling the industry. So you could not have a true "World Phone" that would run on any network.
If there are other considerations here I certainly have read them or thought of them. I guess my final question is why isn't RiM and Nokia's designs even smaller if backwards compatibility isn't a concern?
I have zero insight on that. I don't know if their concerns center on the ability to swap sim cards, manufacturing costs, or whatever else. I was suggesting that it's pointless changing this stuff unless it actually fixes something. Otherwise why move away from what you already have? The statement about it being free isn't really true when it's just cross licensing leverage rather than truly free to use. They should just stick with what is being used already unless this does actually solve some problem in engineering or functionality. I imagine we'll see more articles on this topic anyway.
I'm quite familiar. Here, I'll break it down for you.
First of all, we can get rid of the address book and messages storage. It's a pointless feature for the future of smartphones.
(Warning: These next things are really tricky but they do require looking at how the technology works, not at the little piece of plastic)
Second, we have the IMSI. This essentially identifies the carrier and its country. This is up to 15 digits but could be shorter if using a full alpha-numeric. It's not unlike the way the Mac. However, inputting this into the phone could be reduced even more by putting most of the information onto the mobile baseband. This not only adds much needed security now afforded by the easily cloned SIM cards but reduces the amount of data the user would need to input with a vSIM.
Also, things like the OSEN, SMSC, SPN, SDN are all basic information that are coded to the carrier and country so this simple data can be part of the mobile baseband database, thus not needing to reside on a physical card.
Next we have the ICCID. This is the number you find engraved into your SIM card. It's not hidden. It can't be. It's up to 19 digits long. This would have to be inputted manually by the customer. That said, aspects of it like the country code and issuer are redundant to some parts of the IMSI as far as I can tell. Still, it's only 19 digits added once to the mobile baseband's storage and acts as the SIM's social security/tax ID number.
Finally we have the authentication key. This is unfortunately stored on physical SIMs and is passed over when SIMs are cloned. This is major issue that goes unnoticed. Again, this key could be stored on the mobile baseband so that is can authenticate with the network with added security. The vSIM would contain its own passcode that will be authenticated by the carrier against the ICCID and other data.
This system could even be smart enough to know that when you leave one country's network and enter another it would ask you if you wish to switch vSIMs. However, because this is a low-level, very secure system pushing this data to the OS layer would not be wise. The best move is to have the user restart the device in order to choose a new vSIM.
Since we're just now talking about the 4th generation of SIM card which probably wouldn't show up until 2013 what I propose is not a solution that I expect to happen overnight. I figure it's a good decade away but the move for more value and security in our communication devices means the physical SIM card will eventually go away. There will be opposition, but it will be from carriers because of control, not people who say they have to have a physical SIM card the way people say they have to have an ODD in case they need to reinstall an program.
1) Incorporating vSIM doesn't mean the physical SIM would go away immediately. In fact, the only way this would work would be to have a couple generations of both system in place.
2) I'm in favour of the SIM. A vSIM is still a SIM. It offers all the same useful features except it adds more security and convenience.
But Apple wasn't putting their Macs on the floppy drive makers's networks. It's a very different situation.
apple needs to progress. They shouldn't let carriers stop them. This is actually a good post.
There was an article a while back that said that the phone carriers both here in the US and in the EU threatened to sue apple if they did away with the sims. It is there way of controlling the industry. So you could not have a true "World Phone" that would run on any network.
That would make me more determined to get rid of the sim. They are trying to lock people into shitty take what I give you deals when it comes to phone service.
So if Apple wins with their backwards compatible design it's bad. So you want Nokia or RiM to win with their incompatible design. Got it! Perfectly reasonable and objective response¡
Yeah, I didn't read far enough back up the thread this morning. Mea culpa.
No, I said I don't care who wins as long as I am still able to use multiple sim cards as I travel quite a bit and use prepaid data plans while I'm there. No where did I write I hope Rim or Nokia wins. Your just making things up. I also still don't know why we need a new standard the old mini sim is small enough.
Okay you know what if I did have to choose a new format then I would probably go with Nokias design then, at least their proposing something different.
The only thing Apple did was cut off the board around the sim, nothing original about the design what so ever. You can test it out yourself I've done it three times already, take a normal sim card, cut off the surrounding board and it will fit pefectly into a Apple 4S. A new patton for that! Oh but you can use the patton for for free, yea no shitt sherlock let me grab my scissors.
Apple should have just came out and said we prefer the current sim just smaller here are the size specs.
Heres a how to guide to make your own super special Apple sim card if you need help:
http://m.techradar.com/news/mobile-c...cro-sim-681020
You didn't say WiFi, but that's the cardless "multi-carrier" system I'm using as a point of reference, there's nothing else close to that idea yet. You did say "The phone OS can store whatever keys are needed to get on a network." which is true, but the mechanism of moving accounts between phones and phone brands is still of concern. Then there's the matter of making you're you're not using the same line simultaneously on multiple devices, something the SIM system is designed to prevent because that causes network problems. And you have to have a system that works globally on thousands of carriers in hundreds of countries and thousands of device models, and compatible with hundreds of regulatory systems. The idea is simple, actually getting it to work so broadly takes considerable doing.
If you have never entered keys to get on your WiFi, then you're probably not secure. Sure, the computer stores the keys, but you have to have a way of getting it into the system in the first place, which is still a clumsy system.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but half the discussion here essentially revolves around how to get unique user information into a handset and the merits of various approaches.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how you couch it, we're still manually inputting the subscriber information into phones when we use SIM cards - we input by jamming a piece of plastic & metal into a hole or slot - which is about as clumsy as it gets. There's no automated system working behind the scenes to get that data into the phone, we still do it by hand.
What defines the "SIM" is the unique data. For the end user, it's irrelevant how it gets in the phone except insofar as how convenient or inconvenient it is. The argument that it's a security measure to use that little card instead os using a keyboard/UI to input the exact same data, is rather flawed, since apparently SIM cards can be cloned without too much hassle. Also, the "frequent traveller" argument in favor of physical media is overlooking the added overhead of having to carry additional physical SIM cards which can be damaged, lost or stolen. If one considers it objectively, in combination with a unique hardware identifier (akin to a MAC address) the "virtual SIM" is actually the most user-friendly option. And frankly, it's no different for the carriers - they still distribute the same information to users, just via a different medium. No extra physical media to manage, switching users/carriers/networks can be done via a simple UI selection on a phone screen. When signing up for new service, there's the one-time overhead of inputting the numbers, but even that can be streamlined via alternative local-area data input/transmission methods (local wireless or wired data connections, QR/bar codes, etc...) for which there are already existing and working standards.