Nokia calls Apple nano-sim pledge 'attempt to devalue' competitors' IP

Posted:
in iPhone edited January 2014


Ahead of a European standards-setting organization vote on competing nano-SIM proposals from Nokia and Apple, the Finnish handset maker has dismissed Apple's offer of royalty-free licenses as seemingly "no more than an attempt to devalue the intellectual property of others."



Earlier this month, Apple pledged to offer royalty-free licenses to any patents essential to its proposed nano-SIM standard provided the specification is accepted by the European Telecommunications Standards institute (ETSI) and all other patent holders accept the same terms with reciprocity.



However, a Nokia spokesman told IDG that the company is unaware of any essential patents that Apple holds for the proposal.



"In light of this, Apple's proposal for royalty-free licensing seems no more than an attempt to devalue the intellectual property of others," he said.



Photos of prototype versions of Apple's proposed standard emerged on Monday. According to The Verge, Apple's design is "in many ways the least controversial" because it maintains the old configuration of electrical contacts.





Oberthur Technologies' nano-SIM prototype. | Source: The Verge







Nokia also alleges that Apple's proposal does not meet the ETSI's requirements. The handset maker argues that the similarity between the length of Apple's nano-SIM and the width of current-generation micro-SIMs would violate a "no jamming" rule from the standards-setting body.



The ETSI is scheduled to vote on the "fourth form factor (4FF)UICC" proposals on Thursday.



[ View article on AppleInsider ]

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 67
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I don't see Nokia's PoV on this. There design is more squared than Apple's design.
    Personally I'd prefer the Nokia SIM only because it's the smallest. RiM's looked appealing at first will all connectors at one end which means it could be further shrunk but then I noticed the 9th contact to the left.
  • Reply 2 of 67
    am8449am8449 Posts: 343member
    The new nano-SIM might take up less space in a phone, but the current micro-SIM is pretty damn hard to manipulate as it is.
  • Reply 3 of 67
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by am8449 View Post


    The new nano-SIM might take up less space in a phone, but the current micro-SIM is pretty damn hard to manipulate as it is.



    Which is why getting rid of the physical SIM is the way to go for consumers.
  • Reply 4 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by am8449 View Post


    The new nano-SIM might take up less space in a phone, but the current micro-SIM is pretty damn hard to manipulate as it is.



    Apple should just do away with the sim altogether.



    I can't imagine the need for sims anyway. Yah it's convenient to just pop your sim in and out of your phone at the whim of a dime but seriously who even swaps out their sims nowadays?



    Why can't they just make a damn phone smart enough to have you input your details.



    Just punch in your phone number, punch in your personal access code and the phone will contact the network and provision itself. If you lose the phone, you lose the sim anyway. Once the phone is provisioned that sim is locked, if you want to transfer your sim you just either "hold phone a next to phone b" and do a transfer of account via bluetooth or some other wireless method.



    Or just reenter the credentials on phone b and accept the ToS on that device and have the previous device shut off from the network.



    I agree that it serves no purpose but to devalue the competition. A cell phone maker should not be the one who standardizes a component that serves to the vital function of the core technology itself.



    It should be an outside party who takes input from all carriers to come to an "agreement" as to what should be the standard.



    Please don't argue emergency situations because all phones with a sim or not can dial 911 if the phone can communicate on the network band. Even my old deactivated sprint phone still managed to call 911 and I can't even put a sim in it.
  • Reply 5 of 67
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darkflame808 View Post


    Apple should just do away with the sim altogether.



    They tried and got shot down. Despite Apple's power in this market there are apparently certain things they can't do.



    Quote:

    ...if you want to transfer your sim you just either "hold phone a next to phone b" and do a transfer of account via bluetooth or some other wireless method.



    This is where I disagree. We're only talking about a handful of numbers, but important numbers. This needs to require a PIN to be accessed and needs to be protected from being transmitted via Bluetooth. The time it would take to set up the pairing you could have already copied the numbers over.



    Plus, a vSIM might require a low-level entry into some special storage area of the mobile baseband and not directly written via the OS. That's at least one way I might tackle the situation.



    Quote:

    I agree that it serves no purpose but to devalue the competition. A cell phone maker should not be the one who standardizes a component that serves to the vital function of the core technology itself.



    It should be an outside party who takes input from all carriers to come to an "agreement" as to what should be the standard.



    Yeah, but then Nokia's claims against Apple would also fall on itself and RiM. Personally, I want a phone maker designing the SIM that goes into phones and not the carriers.



    Plus, regardless of who creates the design it's still becoming an ETSI standard. There are lots of open and/or free standards created by for-profit companies. Apple does quite a bit of this.
  • Reply 6 of 67
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,428member
    In other words, Apple wishes to replace Nokia's SIM technology with a free one?

    What a travesty that would be.
  • Reply 7 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Which is why getting rid of the physical SIM is the way to go for consumers.



    Barring that however, Apple's design is clearly the winner in that it appears to be 100% backward compatible.



    With the contacts being the exact same size and shape these SIMS could easily be popped into a plastic do-hicky to make them up to either micro or full sized sims.
  • Reply 8 of 67
    orlandoorlando Posts: 601member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darkflame808 View Post


    I can't imagine the need for sims anyway. Yah it's convenient to just pop your sim in and out of your phone at the whim of a dime but seriously who even swaps out their sims nowadays?



    Being able to swap sims is great when visiting foreign countries.
  • Reply 9 of 67
    retroneoretroneo Posts: 240member
    Apple's is by far the largest at 12.3 x 8.8mm - not much smaller than today's 12 x 15mm Micro SIM.

    Nokia's 10 x 8mm is the smallest, so why not go for it?



    Nokia's point is that 12.3mm is too close to 12mm. Someone trying to put a nano SIM into a Micro SIM slot will jam the slot up.
  • Reply 10 of 67
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Meanwhile Verizon twiddles thumbs.
  • Reply 11 of 67
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by retroneo View Post


    Apple's is by far the largest at 12.3 x 8.8mm - not much smaller than today's 12 x 15mm Micro SIM.

    Nokia's 10 x 8mm is the smallest, so why not go for it?



    Nokia's point is that 12.3mm is too close to 12mm. Someone trying to put a nano SIM into a Micro SIM slot will jam the slot up.



    Micro-SIM = 180 mm^2



    Apple's design = 108.24 mm^2

    RiM's design = 99 mm^2

    Nokia's design = 80 mm^2



    Apple's in nearly half the size. I do think Nokia has an argument that it might be confusing when looking at the contacts but how much weight does backwards compatibility hold? If we're going to not make it backwards compatible then why not choose something that is radically different and smaller for the future. I hope there are other designs under consideration.
  • Reply 12 of 67
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member
    They should do away with the sims. Sim cards are a way for people like Nokia to make other hardware vendors dependent on their ip. Nokia will try to use FRAND as a defense to legitimate claims of infringement. Sims are also a way for carriers to lock down devices so consumers have to pay lots of money to switch carriers on the spot when the service is unsatisfactory.
  • Reply 13 of 67
    therbotherbo Posts: 70member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    They should do away with the sims. Sim cards are a way for people like Nokia to make other hardware vendors dependent on their ip. Nokia will try to use FRAND as a defense to legitimate claims of infringement. Sims are also a way for carriers to lock down devices so consumers have to pay lots of money to switch carriers on the spot when the service is unsatisfactory.



    Please no, CDMA tried that and look where it is. Banned and hated.



    SIM cards enable competition, you want to switch to another network. You get a free SIM. Put it in your phone and voilalla all works and setup.



    It isn't that hard.



    A vSIM would only allow networks on the "phone", and networks that sign up. And getting all networks to role it out would be hard, and then break competition.



    And a vSIM wouldn't be legal.
  • Reply 14 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    They should do away with the sims.



    Nooo... not The Sims!



  • Reply 15 of 67
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Therbo View Post


    A vSIM would only allow networks on the "phone", and networks that sign up. And getting all networks to role it out would be hard, and then break competition.



    That's not accurate. The simple data stored on a physical SIM could be stored as printed text on a card you buy in any store and then inputted manually. This has plenty of benefits over physical SIMs, like being able to store multiple vSIMs at once and switch between them with ease.



    Quote:

    And a vSIM wouldn't be legal.



    Why isn't in legal?
  • Reply 16 of 67
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darkflame808 View Post


    I can't imagine the need for sims anyway. Yah it's convenient to just pop your sim in and out of your phone at the whim of a dime but seriously who even swaps out their sims nowadays?



    Everytime i travel to europe, i swap my sim over.
  • Reply 17 of 67
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    Everytime i travel to europe, i swap my sim over.



    Ditto, I have a small collection of ones from Asia and Europe, some even have time/minutes and data left on them



    Sim swapping is much to convenient to discount and remove it from the device design.
  • Reply 18 of 67
    therbotherbo Posts: 70member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    That's not accurate. The simple data stored on a physical SIM could be stored as printed text on a card you buy in any store and then inputted manually. This has plenty of benefits over physical SIMs, like being able to store multiple vSIMs at once and switch between them with ease.





    Why isn't in legal?



    Do you even know what's stored on a SIM? I don't think a network wants their auth keys printed in clear text.



    In EU, current law requires that phones have a SIM card. A vSIM is therefore illegal.
  • Reply 19 of 67
    richlrichl Posts: 2,213member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Which is why getting rid of the physical SIM is the way to go for consumers.



    That might work in North America but European and Asian consumers are very much in favour of SIM cards. If you live near the border of several countries, go travelling a lot or live in a country with a competitive GSM market then physical SIM cards are a massive boon.
  • Reply 20 of 67
    patranuspatranus Posts: 366member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    They tried and got shot down. Despite Apple's power in this market there are apparently certain things they can't do.



    No.

    The way for Apple to do this is to just get ride of the sim regardless of what "the market" says.

    When Apple does it, others will follow.



    Remember when everyone said Apple was stupid for getting rid of the floppy drive and including USB.



    Remember when everyone said Apple was being stupid for getting rid of optical drives.



    Remember when everyone said Apple was being stupid for releasing the iPad.



    Apple should "just do it". Who cares what their competitors say. They will sell a shit ton of iPhones and have a defacto standard others will follow.



    No reason for Apple to halt their progress because their competitors are too stubborn.
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