Apple widening NVMe flash storage support in High Sierra possibly good news for Mac Pro, i...

AppleInsiderAppleInsider
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware
Discovery that Apple has intentionally removed restrictions on NVMe in the High Sierra beta suggests that future Macs won't be limited in which mass-storage flash drives may be used, possibly including both the "modular" Mac Pro and the iMac Pro.




The improved driver was discovered by various enthusiast communities since the beta High Sierra launch, and first reported by MacObserver. As a result of the improvement, third-party NVMe drives work on compatible motherboards without a hacked driver for the first time.

At present, support for bootable NMVe drives is currently limited to the Hackintosh community as there are no official Macs with a standard NVMe drive slot. In fact, on the vast majority of the motherboards tested by the community, the driver seems to be able to connect to all manufacturers' NVMe drives.

If Apple intended to stick with a custom slot and limited drive support in the future, there would be no need to enhance the NVMe mass storage driver to support the standard slot, found on PC motherboards.

Little is known about the forthcoming "modular" Mac Pro, which was noted to not be shipping in 2017. However, during the WWDC, the iMac Pro was listed has having dual NVMe drives in a RAID configuration to boost speed. It is not clear if the drives in the iMac Pro strictly adhere to the NVMe protocol, or Apple's implementation of it -- which is decidedly not standard.

As a side-effect of the driver support, owners of the 5,1 Mac Pro are also seeing support for NVMe drives with a compatible PCI-E adapter, but still cannot boot from them.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    rotateleftbyterotateleftbyte Posts: 1,630member
    My hackintosh uses a 512Gb Samsung M2 Drive and it boots really fast. This is running Sierra.
    My only gripe is the lack of USB-3 support. I need to investigate that a bit more.

  • Reply 2 of 34
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    My hackintosh uses a 512Gb Samsung M2 Drive and it boots really fast. This is running Sierra.
    My only gripe is the lack of USB-3 support. I need to investigate that a bit more.

    M.2 isn't quite NMVe. The AHCI driver is fully mature. Once upon a time, I used a M.2 adapter in a 2012 MacBook Pro Retina pretty seamlessly.

    As far as USB 3 goes, you probably just need a PCI-E card with a supported chipset.
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 3 of 34
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    My hackintosh uses a 512Gb Samsung M2 Drive and it boots really fast. This is running Sierra.
    My only gripe is the lack of USB-3 support. I need to investigate that a bit more.

    M.2 isn't quite NMVe. The AHCI driver is fully mature. Once upon a time, I used a M.2 adapter in a 2012 MacBook Pro Retina pretty seamlessly.

    As far as USB 3 goes, you probably just need a PCI-E card with a supported chipset.
    Perhaps maybe something like this:

    https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPCIE4U3/
  • Reply 4 of 34
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    macxpress said:
    My hackintosh uses a 512Gb Samsung M2 Drive and it boots really fast. This is running Sierra.
    My only gripe is the lack of USB-3 support. I need to investigate that a bit more.

    M.2 isn't quite NMVe. The AHCI driver is fully mature. Once upon a time, I used a M.2 adapter in a 2012 MacBook Pro Retina pretty seamlessly.

    As far as USB 3 goes, you probably just need a PCI-E card with a supported chipset.
    Perhaps maybe something like this:

    https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPCIE4U3/
    Also, this one with USB-C if you're so inclined.
    edited June 2017
  • Reply 5 of 34
    trackertracker Posts: 35member
    macxpress said:
    My hackintosh uses a 512Gb Samsung M2 Drive and it boots really fast. This is running Sierra.
    My only gripe is the lack of USB-3 support. I need to investigate that a bit more.

    M.2 isn't quite NMVe. The AHCI driver is fully mature. Once upon a time, I used a M.2 adapter in a 2012 MacBook Pro Retina pretty seamlessly.

    As far as USB 3 goes, you probably just need a PCI-E card with a supported chipset.
    Perhaps maybe something like this:

    https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPCIE4U3/
    That's Gen 1 which is the same speed as USB 3 so you are not getting the improved speed.

    You would need something with at least Gen 2.
  • Reply 6 of 34
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    tracker said:
    macxpress said:
    My hackintosh uses a 512Gb Samsung M2 Drive and it boots really fast. This is running Sierra.
    My only gripe is the lack of USB-3 support. I need to investigate that a bit more.

    M.2 isn't quite NMVe. The AHCI driver is fully mature. Once upon a time, I used a M.2 adapter in a 2012 MacBook Pro Retina pretty seamlessly.

    As far as USB 3 goes, you probably just need a PCI-E card with a supported chipset.
    Perhaps maybe something like this:

    https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/MXPCIE4U3/
    That's Gen 1 which is the same speed as USB 3 so you are not getting the improved speed.

    You would need something with at least Gen 2.
    I didn't say anything about speed, here. I'm aware that it's 5Gbit/s.
  • Reply 7 of 34
    appexappex Posts: 687member
    Great. Apple should use standard connectors and ports, not soldered components that can be upgraded by users. And not charge 2 to 3 times more for the very same component like RAM. Check out that for new iMac on Apple Store and sites like Amazon (3 times more expensive on the former).
  • Reply 8 of 34
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    appex said:
    Great. Apple should use standard connectors and ports, not soldered components that can be upgraded by users. And not charge 2 to 3 times more for the very same component like RAM. Check out that for new iMac on Apple Store and sites like Amazon (3 times more expensive on the former).
    It's possible you've mentioned this before, yes.
    watto_cobrabestkeptsecret
  • Reply 9 of 34
    macky the mackymacky the macky Posts: 4,801member
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    randominternetpersonSpamSandwich
  • Reply 10 of 34
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,305member
    macky the macky said:
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    Well, there's this thing called Wikipedia (and Google) but as I sense you're a TL;DR type, it's a dramatically faster pipeline for computers, designed expressly for very fast SSDs, so everything moves along way faster. More info: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
    watto_cobrabestkeptsecret
  • Reply 11 of 34
    minglok50minglok50 Posts: 59member
    appex said:
    Great. Apple should use standard connectors and ports, not soldered components that can be upgraded by users. And not charge 2 to 3 times more for the very same component like RAM. Check out that for new iMac on Apple Store and sites like Amazon (3 times more expensive on the former).
    Where's the down button...
    williamlondonfastasleepwatto_cobrapscooter63dysamoria
  • Reply 12 of 34
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    chasm said:
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    Well, there's this thing called Wikipedia (and Google) but as I sense you're a TL;DR type, it's a dramatically faster pipeline for computers, designed expressly for very fast SSDs, so everything moves along way faster. More info: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
    Right now,  still using a disk interface/ driver to access essentally big ass memory... That's not ideal. Your handicaping memory because of the traditional limits of disks with small amount of cache. It's time the storage interface got a complete overhaul.
    edited June 2017 randominternetpersondysamoria
  • Reply 13 of 34
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,324member
    minglok50 said:

    Where's the down button...
    It's called the Ignore List, and that one features prominently on it. ;-)
    watto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 14 of 34
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    williamlondon said:
    minglok50 said:

    Where's the down button...
    It's called the Ignore List, and that one features prominently on it. ;-)
    Thanks for reminding me. 

    Appex … begone!

    … and it was so. :-)
    williamlondonwatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 15 of 34
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    foggyhill said:
    chasm said:
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    Well, there's this thing called Wikipedia (and Google) but as I sense you're a TL;DR type, it's a dramatically faster pipeline for computers, designed expressly for very fast SSDs, so everything moves along way faster. More info: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
    Right now,  still using a disk interface/ driver to access essentally big ass memory... That's not ideal. Your handicaping memory because of the traditional limits of disks with small amount of cache. It's time the storage interface got a complete overhaul.
    You mean, like APFS?
    randominternetpersonwatto_cobraSolidysamoria
  • Reply 16 of 34
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,324member
    Rayz2016 said:
    minglok50 said:

    Where's the down button...
    It's called the Ignore List, and that one features prominently on it. ;-)
    Thanks for reminding me. 

    Appex … begone!

    … and it was so. :-)
    A perfect solution (something like a "Send to MacRumors Forever" button<ha!>) it is not, but it does at least reduce the *screeching* noise here.
    edited June 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 34
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Mike Wuerthele said:
    foggyhill said:
    chasm said:
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    Well, there's this thing called Wikipedia (and Google) but as I sense you're a TL;DR type, it's a dramatically faster pipeline for computers, designed expressly for very fast SSDs, so everything moves along way faster. More info: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
    Right now,  still using a disk interface/ driver to access essentally big ass memory... That's not ideal. Your handicaping memory because of the traditional limits of disks with small amount of cache. It's time the storage interface got a complete overhaul.
    You mean, like APFS?
    APFS is the filesystem
    There are some drivers to get to the actual hardware and present a stable interface to the software.
    then the hardware itself that can be optimized for accessing disks, or memory.

    The whole stack now in the Iphone is solid state optimized.

    This is seemingly coming to everything Apple soon.
    Everything in the stack had, for a long time, some legacy crap to deal with the limitations of a physical hard disk.

    dysamoria
  • Reply 18 of 34
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 1,146member
    ...hopefully Apple is getting the message, and the pendulum is swinging back a bit and will broaden into more user adjustable options across the entire hardware line... I would ask if the highly matched, optimized 'onboard' memory with ultimate performance boost might define the BTO camp, by willing choice...
  • Reply 19 of 34
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member
    chasm said:
    macky the macky said:
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    Well, there's this thing called Wikipedia (and Google) but as I sense you're a TL;DR type, it's a dramatically faster pipeline for computers, designed expressly for very fast SSDs, so everything moves along way faster. More info: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
    Thanks for the link. It was very informative.
    dysamoria
  • Reply 20 of 34
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member

    foggyhill said:
    chasm said:
    WTF is a NMVe and why should I want one?
    Well, there's this thing called Wikipedia (and Google) but as I sense you're a TL;DR type, it's a dramatically faster pipeline for computers, designed expressly for very fast SSDs, so everything moves along way faster. More info: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2899351/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html
    Right now,  still using a disk interface/ driver to access essentally big ass memory... That's not ideal. Your handicaping memory because of the traditional limits of disks with small amount of cache. It's time the storage interface got a complete overhaul.
    You mean, like APFS?

    Mike, completely newbie question, but what about the current MBPs? The SSD may not be user-replacable, but does the inbuilt SSD drive adhere to NMVe, or is it something that may come in a future version?

    Does APFS and High Sierra have any of the features that are supported by NMVe, albeit in a proprietary manner? 

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