G-5 now, in August or Mac Pro? (a Pro Audio query)
Newbie to the apple insider forum... and new to Apple period. Previously, I've owned Dell PCs for home use only. I've read several pages of threads re: the new line of Mac Pros coming out and I have some questions that I'm hoping you experienced users can help me clarify:
I'm preparing to buy a Mac for Home Studio/Pro Audio use and was directed toward the G-5 by several friends. It certainly sounds like it will do EVERYTHING I will need it to do (capture/process/edit audio signal).
However, with the coming Fall line of Mac Pros, I wonder if I should (1) wait to buy the newest version in the same price or (2) buy a G-5 or refurbed G-5 with what I assume will be a price drop?
I have read up on the G-5's enough to know that with a bump up in RAM (to 2GB) that it'll be a machine capable of doing what I'll need it to do.
(3) if I buy a G-5 (and right now I'm leaning toward a refurbed G-5 Dual 2GHZ, the entry level G-5) will I be putting myself in a situation where I won't be able to upgrade/update it in two years or so?
I should ellaborate on my mindset with regard to buying a Mac for Pro Audio use:
1. I'm NOT the kind of person who has the $$$ nor the need to chase after "this year's model", the fastest, most modern version of this or that.
2. I want to be able to buy a reliable machine to handle the tasks. Period. No graphics, modeling, 3-D imaging, etc... that many others use their Mac's for.
Any straight shooting advice re: buy a refurb G-5 NOW, buy a refurb G-5 in August or buy a new Mac Pro in August would be appreciated. Keep in mind that I'll NEED to put less that $2000 into the machine.
much thanks in advance, rick
I'm preparing to buy a Mac for Home Studio/Pro Audio use and was directed toward the G-5 by several friends. It certainly sounds like it will do EVERYTHING I will need it to do (capture/process/edit audio signal).
However, with the coming Fall line of Mac Pros, I wonder if I should (1) wait to buy the newest version in the same price or (2) buy a G-5 or refurbed G-5 with what I assume will be a price drop?
I have read up on the G-5's enough to know that with a bump up in RAM (to 2GB) that it'll be a machine capable of doing what I'll need it to do.
(3) if I buy a G-5 (and right now I'm leaning toward a refurbed G-5 Dual 2GHZ, the entry level G-5) will I be putting myself in a situation where I won't be able to upgrade/update it in two years or so?
I should ellaborate on my mindset with regard to buying a Mac for Pro Audio use:
1. I'm NOT the kind of person who has the $$$ nor the need to chase after "this year's model", the fastest, most modern version of this or that.
2. I want to be able to buy a reliable machine to handle the tasks. Period. No graphics, modeling, 3-D imaging, etc... that many others use their Mac's for.
Any straight shooting advice re: buy a refurb G-5 NOW, buy a refurb G-5 in August or buy a new Mac Pro in August would be appreciated. Keep in mind that I'll NEED to put less that $2000 into the machine.
much thanks in advance, rick
Comments
My recommendation would probably still be wait for the Mac Pro's but it'll be helpful to know what you're using right now.
Thanks for taking the time to offer some guidance/advice.
Unlike many on this site, I'm a wooden instrument player who knows little about "mobo's" and the like. Your patience and plain talk are appreciated.
rick
Originally posted by Rickster62
....
I'm preparing to buy a Mac for Home Studio/Pro Audio use and was directed toward the G-5 by several friends. It certainly sounds like it will do EVERYTHING I will need it to do (capture/process/edit audio signal).
However, with the coming Fall line of Mac Pros, I wonder if I should (1) wait to buy the newest version in the same price or (2) buy a G-5 or refurbed G-5 with what I assume will be a price drop?
...
My recommendation is to go with the Power Mac G5 now. The computer is fully operational now and will remain so for years to come. If your friends have experience with the G5, all the better. They will help you unlearn all the bad habits you picked up as a Windows user.
The Intel transition is remarkably smooth, but that does not mean that is not without gotcha's. These come in two flavors. One is that not all QuickTime codecs have been ported to Intel. This means that you may have to run certain multimedia apps in Rosetta even though they are Universal Binary (PPC/Intel-compatible). The other is that because the professional towers and servers have not yet been ported to Intel, absolutely no one on this forum who can tell you the kinds and numbers of expansion cards and peripheral ports will be included in the new machines. I personally don't expect a problem, but you don't know what you don't know.
Think how happy Herbie Hancock would have been if his first Mac had been a 2.5 GHz Quad PM G5. It was not available then. The PM G5 is available now. The Intel-based Mac Pro is not.
I'd also look at Logic Pro from Apple. Even if you plan on setting up a little Protools rig Logic is a capable front end.
Check out the Apogee Ensemble if you're looking for an input device as well. It supports ANY Core Audio (Apples core audio architecture for low latency midi/audio routing)application and is for the most part software controlled.
The reason why I think the Powermac replacement with Intel is going be worth the wait is the immense speed increase you will have. That comes in handy if you want to use the RTAS plugins for PT or any other non DSP acclerated plugin.
If you had to have something within 2 months then I'd recommend a PPC based Powermac like Mr Me.
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/ensemble.php
for I/O and check out this Firewire SSL effects
http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/duende_home.html
Duende.
I'm after a high quality audio rig without a steep learning curve. I'm sound savvy enough, but not MC guts savvy, so I'm looking for a system that will weather 3-4 years.
Any further discussion, suggestions, advice, considerations are appreciated.
thanks
rick
Do you primarly use midi instruments and sequence or do you like to record live instruments and have robust editing tools to get you where you want.
Logic's Midi is superior to PT but PT is a better editing environment. You can run the two together because Logic supports Digidesigns DAE.
If you do wait till August and still decide to get a G5 it will be cheaper then and you will at least have the advantage of seeing both. Usually I''d say buy now but this time I'd go with, hold out and see what happens at WWDC - then make your decision. WWDC is just a month away, so is SIGGRAPH and if Apple really has a wicked Mac Pro I'd bet we could see it there, or something else, or new, updated at WWDC.
My 2¢
Not only do the new towers promise to be far more powerful than the current ones, but also the G5s are very underspecced. Expect a similiarly priced Mac pro to have a better GPU, more ram and more HD space as standard.
David
the G5 you mention is supposedly matched performance wise by the intel imac! so one can only imagine what waiting a few months for the mac pro would leave you with... a VERY capable machine that will last you for the 3/4 years and longer that you currently want.
a new intel is likely to have a longer upgradeable life, ie get a basic 2 gig machine in a few months and then upgrade ram 2/3 years from now or as your needs dictate.
learning curve Vs not all apps are UB yet. the way i see this is, by the time you are FLYING on a new app, a few months will have elapsed on top of the few onths you will wait for the mac pros to come out.. theres 4 months of development time for UBs right there.
i base this on waiting till 1st 2nd week august, and then waiting a month to see if there are any major bugs... ie dont be a VERY early adopter.
at this time, unless you have a paying project NOW, leads me to feel that for your computer to LAST 3/4 years AND you to be happy with it, its worth waiting.
even if you ignore the above, you will be waiting ANYWAY to get the best price/performance refub machine you can.. so wait, see all your options then decide.
RE logic, there is a downloadable trial (30 days) of logic express at http://www.apple.com/logicexpress along with various demos in quick time.
logic allows you to use logic node whereby you can use 2 or more macs to farm out tracks to another machine. so adding an (updated to core duo) cheapest mac mini at some point may be an idea IF you run out of processing power... just a thought
RE PT im a bit confused, is your aim to run PT on a G5/Mac pro and use the Mbox? or upgrade to the 002 ?? or run a full PT HD system?
if your intention is to stay with the Mbox and or upgrade to the 002 and only record yourself one or two tracks at a time, then i cant see the need for the extra expense of a larger more expensive system? further explination would be cool
hope some of this is enlightening
Rod
Re: the interface, I'm not sold on any one. It was just suggested that I go with the M-powered ProTools and pair it up with an M-box or M-Audio 410. I don't imagine laying down more than 2 tracks at once as I'm an acoustic guitar player and songwriter. Folding into the mix might be Reason 3.0 driven keys/synths but the meat of the recordings will be the guitar and vox. I may want to use two inputs for guitar (at once) and another for vocals which would rule out these with only 2 true simultaneous inputs.
While I'll need to be cost-conscious re: the interface (i.e., I won't be buying some full rack unit if I won't need 8 inputs, etc...), I am looking for audio quality, ease of use and reliability.
It seems to make most sense to buy the machine, then the peripherals, especially if there are forthcoming upgrades in the interface or software.
Thanks for the link to the free Logic trial and from all of you, thanks for taking the time to offer opinions, help broaden my understanding of the leap in Mac-ville.
Sincerely, Rick
ive been running cubase onan ATARI for years and im so used to it, the thought of jumping to logic is actually painful
im running a stand alone recorder for audio, but want to put everything into the computer (mac) however to get the audio I/O i have currently woudl cost me a few limbs!
PT has the Mbox and the 002Rack and 002controler £400 and £900 and £1700
then it gets more expensive
having PT Mpowered gives us access to the M-audio range... not ideal but it IS further options i think the FireWire1814 is the answer for you with 4 inputs
i havent run logic or PT in anger, i dont know what level of reverb plug-ins you might want to run, but i think an imac 'could' be just fine for you... i dont want to push this, but you should have a good chat with your mac owning friends, as im sure they can give you a better idea of what they expect and what your needs are.
if you want access to PCI slots for Universal Audios suite of plug-ins for example then you WILL need a G5/Mac Pro.
but on the faceof it it seems that PT Mpowered/M-audio with possible Logic/reason and at least 2gig of ram is the way to go. RAM is important when using virtual instrumnets! the current imac/MBP only allow a MAXIMUM of 2Gig Ram.
so again, a G5(MAx 16 GBRAM) and MAc Pro (?? who knows RAM wise) give you that option to upgrade as your needs change.
sorry if im throwing more options at you
my current thinking (for myself) is to upgrade my G4 mac mini to the Core Duo Mini (.... my G4 was only ever a toe in the water and has only half a gig of ram) the G$ is struggleing to run Melodyne with more than 6 tracks.. it will run 8/9 but stutteres now and again..
i have the intel mini ordered with 1Gig and it should run Melodyne easily, my thinking is to then wait for an update in the imacs (some time in the next 2/6 months) and get one fully speced out, run logic on it and use the mini as a logic node to gain extra processing power IF i need it. this splits up my spending, give me two machines (in the event of some kind of failure) and could see me putting the mini in the bedroom as a record collection replacment solution
just my thoughts.
if i go the PT route i would need at least to get the 0002 Rack as i NEED an ADAT in. but thats just me
Rod
as far as Logic vs. PT goes...
I haven't used logic since 4.8.1 on OS9, but I found it to have a much steeper learning curve than PT has.
all the things about nodes etc are true, I will NEVER say Logic isn't powerful or full featured, because it is..... very! I just never found Logic to be very....uhm... logical.
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/sh...fpart=1#318781
might be somthing to take into consideration... there IS a fix.. but i wouldnt imagine it would be to easy to get done on a second hand machine! a real casee of buyer beware
It is fun to recommend the lastest and greatest, but to be honest, given your budget and requirements, I think any Mac you buy today will suit your needs. A dual G5 is overkill in terms of processing power, and it should serve you well for the next few years. Waiting for an Intel-based MacPro machine may make sense if you needed the performance increases it should offer, but it doesn't sound like you do.
If you're already familiar with Protools, then the M-Audio packages would be good. You should take a look at GarageBand as well. I think it only allows recording of 1 track at a time but it is surprisingly useful for the price (free).
Lastly, if you're into acoustic guitar & vocals music I'd put more money into a nice mic or two. That will improve the sound of your recordings more than a few extra CPU cycles.
Lastly, if you're into acoustic guitar & vocals music I'd put more money into a nice mic or two. That will improve the sound of your recordings more than a few extra CPU cycles.
You can upgrade your mic pre's anytime but buying a computer that needs to last 3-4 years means buying as much power as you can afford. I totally disagree with you about cpu cycles. Anyone that as ran Altiverb or Space Designer(convolution reverbs that sound amazing) would likely disagree as well.
The smart thing would be to wait and in a month we'll know what the new stuff offers versus what a closeout stuff stuff offers.
Saving a few hundred bucks sounds nice but PPC is a dead plaform right now.
1. re: mics for the home studio:
I'm sitting pretty on a decent Rode NT-1 (studio condensor) that has served me well for guitar, vocals over the past 4yrs.
2. new (Mac Pro) versus old (G-5):
It's been helpful getting differing opinions re: what to do here and I appreciate all the feedback. It's giving me much to think about in terms of COST, CPU speeds, MEMORY, potential problems with NEW and somewhat untested technology versus older/tried and true configurations.
Keep the ideas and considerations coming. I'm all ears.
As it stands, I think I'm going to sit on my hands until August and SEE what the new line has in store. If nothing else, I can always get a G-5 dual core 2GHz machine, bump up the RAM (to 2GB) and probably save a few bucks on "last year's model."
It certainly seems to make sense to wait, given I don't NEED it now... just want to get a ticket Mac-ville soon...
thanks
rick
having PT Mpowered gives us access to the M-audio range... not ideal but it IS further options i think the FireWire1814 is the answer for you with 4 inputs
I'm using this set up on a now ancient G5 1.6 and really like it, just need to upgrade the computer.
You can upgrade your mic pre's anytime
I'd rather have a computer that at least gets the job done and great mic pre's. Great pres will last forever.
As it stands, I think I'm going to sit on my hands until August and SEE what the new line has in store. If nothing else, I can always get a G-5 dual core 2GHz machine, bump up the RAM (to 2GB) and probably save a few bucks on "last year's model."
Not to be even more confusing and there's certainly nothing wrong with waiting, but have you considered an Intel Imac? They recently reviewed the new imac in SOS and the reviewer gave it a thumbs up for audio work. I mean I'm sure the new towers will be even better, but if you are recording at home running a few soft synths and doing say 24 tracks of audio I think you'll have plenty of power.