I think you misread or misunderstood my post. I'm not saying CPU power is useless, just that a nice microphone is more important for a project studio on a budget than running x instances of a convolution reverb. Especially for someone who sings and plays acoustic guitar.
This is excellent advice. You'll do more for your sound by getting a nice mic pre for that Rode than you will by being able to run a few extra plug ins. For instance I just recorded three songs with a producer at his home studio. He was running a G4 400, but he knew how to use his tools and he had nice mics and pres which were all more important than having the latest computer.
This is excellent advice. You'll do more for your sound by getting a nice mic pre for that Rode than you will by being able to run a few extra plug ins. For instance I just recorded three songs with a producer at his home studio. He was running a G4 400, but he knew how to use his tools and he had nice mics and pres which were all more important than having the latest computer.
aye I'm still on two 733MHz Quicksilvers in my studios....
if you don't need PCI cards for your audio interfaces, the iMac IS a viable alternative....
what's making this thread great for me is that there have been a wealth of thoughtful replies, suggestions, considerations and sometimes oposing views/opinions. I love it! Thanks all...
So, to further describe my intentions:
I am an acoustic guitar player and songwriter. I will most often lay down tracks in two forms (1) au natural (sans click track) with just acoustic and vox. Then later, fold in a few other instruments (harmonica, banjo, high strung guitar, etc...). (2) with a click track, lay down foundation tracks on rhythm guitar along with sparse bass and/or drums/keys(most likely using the highly recommended Reason 3.0).
I'm sitting on a decent studio condensor and have a Presonus pre-amp that has worked very well with it on my former recording rig (a Roland VS-880EX hard disc recorder). I may upgrade my pre-amp at some point, but for the time being, I'm happy with the Presonus.
What I'll need beyond the Mac?
1. a firewire interface in the under $500 range (leaning toward the M-audio1814 or possibly the 410).
2. a software format for recording (I'm leaning toward ProTools given my limited exposure to it and it's intuitive layout). I'm open to suggestions but want to keep it compatible as possible with M-Audio interface and Reason software (or an analogous substitute re: software/interface)
at some point,
3. I'd want to get a decent compressor (again under $500)
Again, my thanks to all of you who are chipping into this thread and for giving me fodder for thought.
sounds like about 8 tracks... lets say you go mad and want/need 16 and want a few plugins, pro tools and reason. is your intention for Reason to provide the drums? not sure if im reading it that way, or if you ment it?
i know reason runs on my half gig G4 mini no probs, but i havent pushed it... it looks too daunting to get too far into
i honestly cant see an intel imac having much trouble with that, you get the screen trown in... plus you can run a second screen from the imac if your needs grow/change.
as you arent goning to be running software samplers the 2 gig RAM should be ample... of course as your needs change this might not hold... its difficult to say, but i assume your not going to add too much extra to what you have outlined unless you upgrade the computer in 3/4 years time.
the NT1 is a cool mic, i have one wish i had two! a tad 'dry' but a great worker!
the M-Audio stuff is about your only option with PT unless you go for Mbox/002 so once you have decided to go PT (which i think you have already ) then thats no more thought needed there
i have an SPL Channel1 which is a great Valve mic pre with compression and deessing built in, its hard to get a BAD sound out of it IMO also comes in a cheaper NON-Valve version
ould you mind explaining WHY you want to upgrade the computer?
A couple of reasons. For some reason this box, maybe because it is single processor has never run great for audio tasks. I got more juice out of my G4 450 running DP in OS9 than I do out of this box running DP4 in OSX. Even at that I wouldn't upgrade yet, but I'm moving from an apartment to a house and I will need to have an internet, picture, home computer in a seperate area for my wife from where the studio will be so I need to get another computer anyway. I'm leaning towards either an imac or a macbook pro. It would be nice to be able to bring a small rig to jam sessions for stereo recording.
Quote:
I'd want to get a decent compressor (again under $500)
The Really Nice Compressor is a classic what do you think of the Really Nice Micpre? Does its quality live up to the RNC?
It's really tough to build the right system based around a computer. I think all advice given this thread has been really good. You can't go wrong either way.
I've not tried nor heard much about the Really Nice Pre, but for the price I might give it a try. I'm going to need more pre's since in my new studio I'm hoping to record some basics with live drums.
the RNC!!! {slaps head HARD} i got one of these as soon as they came out... rang several places and got a "wha?" response
GREAT on guitar electric and acc. would highly recomend one, but mine been stuck away in a box forever.. major illness ment ive been doing a LOT less than id like ... but... yeah was just thinking of digging it out this morning, i have some acc gtr to record so that will be fun.
it IS unbalanced though! if thats an issue... not that ive found it to be a problem mind.
as to the RNPre ive heard differing opinions on it, from wow not bad to , MEH there are lots of other pres in the sea. i think it just doesnt have the WOW factor.
the RNLA limiter... now theres something id love to get my hands on, but cant justify spending on, i have a few instances of UAs 1176 running and i think that will do me {Roland VS2480}
as said above, mics and mic pres last forever.. $1000 divide by 20years = $50 a year not much is it?
//Could the Learned Mac Panel out there advise me on the cheapest machine , new or second hand I could get for my musical needs?
During recording, say 6 general synth/ sample +synth plugins, plus say 6 ESX 24.
For Mixing, say 48 tracks with a good quality EQ and compression plugin on all tracks, another 12 - 18 fx plugins, plus 3 reverbs and 2 delays on the buss.
Whats a rough ball park model I shpold be looking at?
Your comments would be greatly appreciated //
reply
//My 1GHz Powerbook pretty much handles the load you are talking about. A MacIntel Mini will absolutely smoke my machine. Benchmarks show that the Core Duo machines can handle what Dual G5s can.
I'm gonna get a mini as a transition machine, while they shake out the bugs from the upcoming towers.//
The guy right above me has the right idea. Just get a Core Duo Intel mini. I have one at work and it is a freekn screamer (just max out ram) if you live in MS Office and Adobe.
Why spend all that money on a G5 Tower only to have it be disconuted in 6 months. Why not spend less money on the mini and come out better all the way around? It should do everything you need for music recordings until the intel transition is all sorted out.
Lots of good advice in this thread, and lemme add my $.02.
If you had more experience reocrding, or already had an established setup, I'd recommend getting a PowerPC machine.
(NOT a knock on you, congrats on stepping into recording--it's tons of fun!)
Why PowerPC? There's a bunch of programs and, importantly, plugins, that aren't Universal binary yet, and the extra overhead of Rosetta can hurt w/ complicated mixes.
However, given your situation, I'd honestly recommend you get a Intel Mini or a iMac, grab a decent audio interface w/ a couple channels, get a good condenser mic, and dive right in using Garageband.
Sounds crazy, but hear me out.
I saw some recommendations for higher-end, $$$ gear here, like the Apogee Ensemble. Hot stuff, not doubt, but if you're just starting out the biggest limitation is going to be your recording skill, and your ears.
So get a intel mac, a decent mic, a audio interface, and practice + listen. Save the rest of your money for down the road, the better you get the wiser your gear choices will be. And once you're ready for a bunch more gear, most software stuff will probably be Universal.
The Garageband recommendation is again a little odd. But consider this: you can do a LOT with Garageband. It even has volume and pan automation. It's FREE. It's Logic lite, really--it's a great way to test out the "feel" of logic vs. PT. Plus, as a musician, just grab a cheap MIDI controller and you can really quickly add tracks using the built-in software instruments; a great way to try ideas out quickly.
A musician friend and I (I mostly do recording, tho I play a little too) were discussing PT, which I tend to like. He thought that PT was really geared towards an engineer's way of thinking, not a musician, and I agree. Once you grasp a couple things, I think GB is more musician-friendly.
If you decide you want to step up to Logic, the sessions are compatible. if you want to use PT, the free cost of GB and low upgrade cost is nice.
Hope this helps. Also, the Tape Op messageboard is populated by friendly folk that are newbie-tolerant; tapeop.com. It's a great mag too, if you're not already subscribed (which is free!).
Your advice is appreciated. Tape Op sounds like a good source as well. The person who engineered my last CD, Chris Garges, is a regular contributor to the mag. He's a sound engineer by trade and another "newbie-friendly" source for me.
I'd say this:
I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest or simplest way in. I'm a songwriter with 3 self-released CDs (from 2002 to March of this year). I've been the route of the Roland VS hard disc recorder and before that a tape driven Tascam Porta Two. What I'm looking for is PRO GRADE AUDIO, a system that can handle producing and software (among the ProTools, Logic, CuBase spectrum) that is relatively MORE intuitive and compatible with whatever hardware I have (computer, interface, midi controller).
Most of my recordings will be original songs driven off of acoustic guitar, but won't be limited to that.
While the Garage Band recommendation is appreciated, I'm looking for something that I will be able to capture tracks in a pro grade environment and can ultimately bring to an engineer to master for public consumption. This would be my goal once the learning curve has leveled off, of course... but ultimately that's where I'm headed.
It is possible that I'll end up getting last year's G-5 Dual 2Ghz (which I imagine will come down once the MAC PRO's come out) and add another GB of RAM to it. The new Mac Pro's, I suspect, will start at $2,000. So the issue seems to be saving $500-600 and beging with a machine that is not as cutting edge, spec-wise (but also relatively bug-free) versus a more expensive, more loaded box that I might need suffer some patches, upgrades, unforeseen compatibility problems.
******
One likely scenario would be as follows:
a G-5 Dual 2Ghz
an extra GB of RAM (moving it up to 2GB)
ProTools M-powered
an M-Audio Fire Wire 1814 interface
an M-Audio keyboard/MIDI controller
Reason 3.0
Again, keep the ideas coming and thanks for the help to this point.
i think you're on the right track here, and I second the kudos for tapeop - it a fantastic magazine. one thing on the G5 powermacs however that has haunted audio professionals for the last couple of years is a power supply problem that manifests itself as a chirping noise. this is a problem that has been reported as fixed on later models, but i have heard mixed results. my dual 2GHz G5 has it, and it is definitely an annoyance.
I'm certainly gonna need to look into this, given the way I was planning to lay out the home studio. Thanks for the heads up.
As much as I'd like to run on out and get a G-5 (or a refurbished one, to be more exact), toss in that RAM and start messing with it... there's a lot I've learned in this short couple months of preparation. And there's more to digest (as your latest entry suggests).
I'll do some more digging and any of you out there with specific experience and recommendations re: the G-5's noise would be APPRECIATED.
What I'm looking for is PRO GRADE AUDIO, a system that can handle producing and software (among the ProTools, Logic, CuBase spectrum) that is relatively MORE intuitive and compatible with whatever hardware I have (computer, interface, midi controller).
Hi Rick,
If that's the case, I'd recommend a firewire interface that's a step up from the M-Audio ones. That's the weak link, sound-wise, in the setup you describe.
Unfortunately, since PT only likes to play with Digi and certain M-audio hardware, you have to be a little careful.
If you want to go the Logic, Cubase, etc route, I'd look into a CoreAudio-compatible interface like the RME Fireface 400. It's very well-regarded sound-wise by the folks at gearslutz.com (a more gear-oriented forum), and a big step up from the M-audio stuff. I'm seriously considering a Fireface 800 for my own personal use.
If you want to go the PT route, consider bititng the bullet and getting the Digi 002 rack unit. You can get 8 analog ins at once, it has ADAT/lightpipe in so you can use different A/D converters with it if you want.
A big advantage of PT is that since almost every recording and mastering studio around uses it, you can record tracks at home then take the PT sessions wherever you want for overdubs, mixing, additional work, etc. It's a very nice way to work, gives you the option of mixing on an analog board if you want, and even if you prefer mixing ITB (in the box) I understand that the high-end ProTools systems (HD, etc) have better summing algorithms than the lower-end versions.
Lastly, don't dismiss garageband out of hand. Even if you use Protools you can export then drag audio tracks/files you recorded right into GB, and use it to quickly test out ideas. You can probably tell I'm pretty up on GB -- I don't use it for actual recording myself, but I've been ver impressed by it. It's a great free tool.
my mini is due in three days time, i have to move all my setups and stuff over from the G4 mini, and then install melodyne... not sure how that will go, as this is the first time i have done it.... currently have bad head cold type dose... so if im not back in 4/5 days you know i didnt make it
but i'll report back on the differance i see in that... Melodyne being processor intensive..
i downloaded the trial version of logic express... WHOLE ball of head scratching for me... not logical at all... but then im a manual reader.. and theres no manual with the trial
gonna D/L the Trail of PT when the new mini comes... so.. see what happens
i just CANT plonk down the amount of cash for a G5 Quad.. or even the bottom end ones.. so its an eventual imac for me.. so this thread has been very helpful, im now REALLY considering PT again
Comments
I think you misread or misunderstood my post. I'm not saying CPU power is useless, just that a nice microphone is more important for a project studio on a budget than running x instances of a convolution reverb. Especially for someone who sings and plays acoustic guitar.
This is excellent advice. You'll do more for your sound by getting a nice mic pre for that Rode than you will by being able to run a few extra plug ins. For instance I just recorded three songs with a producer at his home studio. He was running a G4 400, but he knew how to use his tools and he had nice mics and pres which were all more important than having the latest computer.
Originally posted by trick fall
This is excellent advice. You'll do more for your sound by getting a nice mic pre for that Rode than you will by being able to run a few extra plug ins. For instance I just recorded three songs with a producer at his home studio. He was running a G4 400, but he knew how to use his tools and he had nice mics and pres which were all more important than having the latest computer.
aye I'm still on two 733MHz Quicksilvers in my studios....
if you don't need PCI cards for your audio interfaces, the iMac IS a viable alternative....
Originally posted by trick fall
I'm using this set up on a now ancient G5 1.6 and really like it, just need to upgrade the computer.
would you mind explaining WHY you want to upgrade the computer?
Rick
how many tracks do you think you'll be running? how many Virtual instruments? how many softsamplers? how many effects? what type etc?
do you intend to UP the count on any of this?
re mic pres everyone, yeah... of course, and i KNOW its wise to balance everything, but this is JUST about the budget for the computer.... right Rick?
{goes off to fantasize about API and NEVE amoung others
GREAT thread BTW im finding it very enlightening to see what everyones using/considering... so thanks from me too
So, to further describe my intentions:
I am an acoustic guitar player and songwriter. I will most often lay down tracks in two forms (1) au natural (sans click track) with just acoustic and vox. Then later, fold in a few other instruments (harmonica, banjo, high strung guitar, etc...). (2) with a click track, lay down foundation tracks on rhythm guitar along with sparse bass and/or drums/keys(most likely using the highly recommended Reason 3.0).
I'm sitting on a decent studio condensor and have a Presonus pre-amp that has worked very well with it on my former recording rig (a Roland VS-880EX hard disc recorder). I may upgrade my pre-amp at some point, but for the time being, I'm happy with the Presonus.
What I'll need beyond the Mac?
1. a firewire interface in the under $500 range (leaning toward the M-audio1814 or possibly the 410).
2. a software format for recording (I'm leaning toward ProTools given my limited exposure to it and it's intuitive layout). I'm open to suggestions but want to keep it compatible as possible with M-Audio interface and Reason software (or an analogous substitute re: software/interface)
at some point,
3. I'd want to get a decent compressor (again under $500)
Again, my thanks to all of you who are chipping into this thread and for giving me fodder for thought.
rick
www.rickspreitzer.com
i know reason runs on my half gig G4 mini no probs, but i havent pushed it... it looks too daunting to get too far into
i honestly cant see an intel imac having much trouble with that, you get the screen trown in... plus you can run a second screen from the imac if your needs grow/change.
as you arent goning to be running software samplers the 2 gig RAM should be ample... of course as your needs change this might not hold... its difficult to say, but i assume your not going to add too much extra to what you have outlined unless you upgrade the computer in 3/4 years time.
the NT1 is a cool mic, i have one
the M-Audio stuff is about your only option with PT unless you go for Mbox/002 so once you have decided to go PT (which i think you have already
i have an SPL Channel1 which is a great Valve mic pre with compression and deessing built in, its hard to get a BAD sound out of it IMO also comes in a cheaper NON-Valve version
but mic pres are like opinions, so i wont go on.
hope some of thats useful
ould you mind explaining WHY you want to upgrade the computer?
A couple of reasons. For some reason this box, maybe because it is single processor has never run great for audio tasks. I got more juice out of my G4 450 running DP in OS9 than I do out of this box running DP4 in OSX. Even at that I wouldn't upgrade yet, but I'm moving from an apartment to a house and I will need to have an internet, picture, home computer in a seperate area for my wife from where the studio will be so I need to get another computer anyway. I'm leaning towards either an imac or a macbook pro. It would be nice to be able to bring a small rig to jam sessions for stereo recording.
I'd want to get a decent compressor (again under $500)
This is on my list and they are pretty cheap.
The Really Nice Compressor is a classic what do you think of the Really Nice Micpre? Does its quality live up to the RNC?
It's really tough to build the right system based around a computer. I think all advice given this thread has been really good. You can't go wrong either way.
I've not tried nor heard much about the Really Nice Pre, but for the price I might give it a try. I'm going to need more pre's since in my new studio I'm hoping to record some basics with live drums.
GREAT on guitar electric and acc. would highly recomend one, but mine been stuck away in a box forever..
it IS unbalanced though! if thats an issue... not that ive found it to be a problem mind.
as to the RNPre ive heard differing opinions on it, from wow not bad to , MEH there are lots of other pres in the sea. i think it just doesnt have the WOW factor.
the RNLA limiter... now theres something id love to get my hands on, but cant justify spending on, i have a few instances of UAs 1176 running and i think that will do me
as said above, mics and mic pres last forever.. $1000 divide by 20years = $50 a year not much is it?
//Could the Learned Mac Panel out there advise me on the cheapest machine , new or second hand I could get for my musical needs?
During recording, say 6 general synth/ sample +synth plugins, plus say 6 ESX 24.
For Mixing, say 48 tracks with a good quality EQ and compression plugin on all tracks, another 12 - 18 fx plugins, plus 3 reverbs and 2 delays on the buss.
Whats a rough ball park model I shpold be looking at?
Your comments would be greatly appreciated //
reply
//My 1GHz Powerbook pretty much handles the load you are talking about. A MacIntel Mini will absolutely smoke my machine. Benchmarks show that the Core Duo machines can handle what Dual G5s can.
I'm gonna get a mini as a transition machine, while they shake out the bugs from the upcoming towers.//
thread here
thats surprised me!
Why spend all that money on a G5 Tower only to have it be disconuted in 6 months. Why not spend less money on the mini and come out better all the way around? It should do everything you need for music recordings until the intel transition is all sorted out.
thats surprised me! but my new mini is due in the next week... so its a good surprise
When you get the mini give us a report on how it works for audio.
If you had more experience reocrding, or already had an established setup, I'd recommend getting a PowerPC machine.
(NOT a knock on you, congrats on stepping into recording--it's tons of fun!)
Why PowerPC? There's a bunch of programs and, importantly, plugins, that aren't Universal binary yet, and the extra overhead of Rosetta can hurt w/ complicated mixes.
However, given your situation, I'd honestly recommend you get a Intel Mini or a iMac, grab a decent audio interface w/ a couple channels, get a good condenser mic, and dive right in using Garageband.
Sounds crazy, but hear me out.
I saw some recommendations for higher-end, $$$ gear here, like the Apogee Ensemble. Hot stuff, not doubt, but if you're just starting out the biggest limitation is going to be your recording skill, and your ears.
So get a intel mac, a decent mic, a audio interface, and practice + listen. Save the rest of your money for down the road, the better you get the wiser your gear choices will be. And once you're ready for a bunch more gear, most software stuff will probably be Universal.
The Garageband recommendation is again a little odd. But consider this: you can do a LOT with Garageband. It even has volume and pan automation. It's FREE. It's Logic lite, really--it's a great way to test out the "feel" of logic vs. PT. Plus, as a musician, just grab a cheap MIDI controller and you can really quickly add tracks using the built-in software instruments; a great way to try ideas out quickly.
A musician friend and I (I mostly do recording, tho I play a little too) were discussing PT, which I tend to like. He thought that PT was really geared towards an engineer's way of thinking, not a musician, and I agree. Once you grasp a couple things, I think GB is more musician-friendly.
If you decide you want to step up to Logic, the sessions are compatible. if you want to use PT, the free cost of GB and low upgrade cost is nice.
Hope this helps. Also, the Tape Op messageboard is populated by friendly folk that are newbie-tolerant; tapeop.com. It's a great mag too, if you're not already subscribed (which is free!).
Good luck to you!
Your advice is appreciated. Tape Op sounds like a good source as well. The person who engineered my last CD, Chris Garges, is a regular contributor to the mag. He's a sound engineer by trade and another "newbie-friendly" source for me.
I'd say this:
I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest or simplest way in. I'm a songwriter with 3 self-released CDs (from 2002 to March of this year). I've been the route of the Roland VS hard disc recorder and before that a tape driven Tascam Porta Two. What I'm looking for is PRO GRADE AUDIO, a system that can handle producing and software (among the ProTools, Logic, CuBase spectrum) that is relatively MORE intuitive and compatible with whatever hardware I have (computer, interface, midi controller).
Most of my recordings will be original songs driven off of acoustic guitar, but won't be limited to that.
While the Garage Band recommendation is appreciated, I'm looking for something that I will be able to capture tracks in a pro grade environment and can ultimately bring to an engineer to master for public consumption. This would be my goal once the learning curve has leveled off, of course... but ultimately that's where I'm headed.
It is possible that I'll end up getting last year's G-5 Dual 2Ghz (which I imagine will come down once the MAC PRO's come out) and add another GB of RAM to it. The new Mac Pro's, I suspect, will start at $2,000. So the issue seems to be saving $500-600 and beging with a machine that is not as cutting edge, spec-wise (but also relatively bug-free) versus a more expensive, more loaded box that I might need suffer some patches, upgrades, unforeseen compatibility problems.
******
One likely scenario would be as follows:
a G-5 Dual 2Ghz
an extra GB of RAM (moving it up to 2GB)
ProTools M-powered
an M-Audio Fire Wire 1814 interface
an M-Audio keyboard/MIDI controller
Reason 3.0
Again, keep the ideas coming and thanks for the help to this point.
rick
i think you're on the right track here, and I second the kudos for tapeop - it a fantastic magazine. one thing on the G5 powermacs however that has haunted audio professionals for the last couple of years is a power supply problem that manifests itself as a chirping noise. this is a problem that has been reported as fixed on later models, but i have heard mixed results. my dual 2GHz G5 has it, and it is definitely an annoyance.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G5/G5_noise_tips.html
As much as I'd like to run on out and get a G-5 (or a refurbished one, to be more exact), toss in that RAM and start messing with it... there's a lot I've learned in this short couple months of preparation. And there's more to digest (as your latest entry suggests).
I'll do some more digging and any of you out there with specific experience and recommendations re: the G-5's noise would be APPRECIATED.
thanks
rick
www.rickspreitzer.com
Originally posted by Rickster62
What I'm looking for is PRO GRADE AUDIO, a system that can handle producing and software (among the ProTools, Logic, CuBase spectrum) that is relatively MORE intuitive and compatible with whatever hardware I have (computer, interface, midi controller).
Hi Rick,
If that's the case, I'd recommend a firewire interface that's a step up from the M-Audio ones. That's the weak link, sound-wise, in the setup you describe.
Unfortunately, since PT only likes to play with Digi and certain M-audio hardware, you have to be a little careful.
If you want to go the Logic, Cubase, etc route, I'd look into a CoreAudio-compatible interface like the RME Fireface 400. It's very well-regarded sound-wise by the folks at gearslutz.com (a more gear-oriented forum), and a big step up from the M-audio stuff. I'm seriously considering a Fireface 800 for my own personal use.
If you want to go the PT route, consider bititng the bullet and getting the Digi 002 rack unit. You can get 8 analog ins at once, it has ADAT/lightpipe in so you can use different A/D converters with it if you want.
A big advantage of PT is that since almost every recording and mastering studio around uses it, you can record tracks at home then take the PT sessions wherever you want for overdubs, mixing, additional work, etc. It's a very nice way to work, gives you the option of mixing on an analog board if you want, and even if you prefer mixing ITB (in the box) I understand that the high-end ProTools systems (HD, etc) have better summing algorithms than the lower-end versions.
Lastly, don't dismiss garageband out of hand. Even if you use Protools you can export then drag audio tracks/files you recorded right into GB, and use it to quickly test out ideas. You can probably tell I'm pretty up on GB
Good luck!
but i'll report back on the differance i see in that... Melodyne being processor intensive..
i downloaded the trial version of logic express... WHOLE ball of head scratching for me... not logical at all... but then im a manual reader.. and theres no manual with the trial
gonna D/L the Trail of PT when the new mini comes... so.. see what happens
i just CANT plonk down the amount of cash for a G5 Quad.. or even the bottom end ones.. so its an eventual imac for me.. so this thread has been very helpful, im now REALLY considering PT again
stupid CHOICES!!!
hahaha