The iPhone which I would at least consider along with many others is a smart phone and in general to date has not made a scratch whens to pda and palm use in the corporate world.
Intel has certainly been the spark over the last year for Apple.
How can you say Apple supports an open Standard? You an run Windows OS on any harware you can only run Mac OS if you by a system from Apple. Thats about as closed as you can get.
Id rather have Apple charger double for their OS and allow me to run it on any hardware I choose, not one they feel I should be using or one that Steve Jobs feels meets my needs.
Many that I know run dual boot Windows on their Macs because you need it for business related software even more so in the near future if anyone uses Excel and needs VBA support for macros.
Also unless you are a teacher and are willing to dump a great deal of money for photo editing the only option on a mac that runs univeral binary is CS3, you can get PSP or Adobe Photoshop Elements for 89.00 for the PC which works rather well. Chat clients Yahoo, ICQ, AIM Skype are all far stronger option wise on the PC verions than Mac. For business you simply can not get away with just using Os X becasue it has such a low market share base its not worth it for third party companies to put the effort into writing software.
Another excellent example of this is I really like using Keynote compared to Powerpoint and what I can't believe is that Apple has not yet introduced a Keynote veiwer while Powerpoint has had one forever. To me that is a perfect example of Apple only allowing you to communicate with other apple user and not with the rest of the world. That is unless you export your presentation as a quicktime movie.
In the Windows world you just do what you want too and it works, when you use a Mac the reason you become so creative is your always having to fine a work around to get your work out to share with the other 96% of the world.
Member melgross make the same point regarding the iPhone, while most users are Windows users man iPhone related options only work well if you own a Mac.
For some odd reason Steve Jobs still fails to understand when it comes to the computing world he has never owned more than 6-7% of that population and in the past that has been as little as 2-3%.
While the Apple koolaid drinkers think he is the best thing since slice bread I honestly wish he would step aside and allow someone more open minded to take over.
While I sound anit Apple I would actually love for them to get about 50% market share when ti comes to their OS so we can actually get creative and for once revolutionary apps that actually work cross platform.
True competition is really the only way for the end user to win in all this.
You are going overboard in the opposite direction. The truth is somewhere in between.
I already pointed to that. It's a bit more complex than a simple GUI though. And installation is not just a couple of steps either as per the instructions I linked to shows.
Actually, once you get the third-party installer installed on the iPhone (which is itself very easy), installing new applications on the iPhone is even easier than for any other smart phone. How can that be, when the iPhone is so new and only at version 1.0? It's because applications are installed directly over the Internet to the iPhone by making menu selections on the iPhone. No "sideloading" via a tethered Windows (or Mac) computer is involved at all. Installation of a new application is basically one-tap.
Well, at least you've admitted that you haven't read my posts carefully.
I meant that if you assume I haven't read your posts clearly, then I assume you have read mine the same way.
Quote:
I'm not denying that you can install third party programs. But, it's not as easy as you say it is.
Easy would be downloading a program you bought, or shareware, or freeware, and just installing it through itunes, or just by double clicking on the install icon for the program. Or perhaps just dragging it to the iphone's icon on the monitor screen.
Actually, that nullriver installer you pointed out is even easier than that. Once you have it installed on your iPhone (the trickiest part), it generates a list of available iPhone software right on the iPhone itself using it's internet connection. Then you select a package to install, press the install button, and it's downloaded to your phone (again using it's internet connection) and installed. No computer, no iTunes required. Doesn't get much easier than that.
Quote:
I doubt that we'll see too many Mac programs being ported over.
There are several reasons for that. One, is the reason Jobs, and some programmers gave. The interface is entirely different. Mac programs require the Mac Finder. There is nothing even close on the iPhone.
Actually, there is a version of Finder for the iPhone. It's actually used by other programs for their file chooser. Though I admit that the interface is a bit clumsy.
Quote:
Second is that the Mac these days uses vastly more powerful cpus than the iPhone has. As even WiFi speeds are considered to be severely limited by the cpu's speed on the iPhone, many programs would be totally brought to their knees. There is also not enough memory for many of these programs, particularly if the phone will be used for music and video.
Well, MAME and an NES emulator have already been ported with relative ease. Though the developers are now spending time optimizing them for the phone. Obviously you're not going to get first person shooters (aside from maybe Doom), but there'll be plenty of puzzle games which come along shortly (a good one already is Lights Out).
I didn't say say you said it was faster than 3G. I said that you think its fast enough. I also said that if you find those much slower than my Sprints 3G to be fine, then ok for you, but those of us with those much faster services are not willing to move several steps back as you are willing to do.
I already said that Safari is better than what I have on my Treo 700p, but that the really slow (compared to mine) service is too much to bear.
If you can stomach such awful web page and html e-mail rendering and are able to fumble through the web sites you need to use with a Treo, then by all means, suck up all the bytes you can at 3G speed. I'm happier investing a little more time into the download, not to have the advanced technologies of WM/PalmOS/Symbian getting in the way.
Actually, once you get the third-party installer installed on the iPhone (which is itself very easy), installing new applications on the iPhone is even easier than for any other smart phone. How can that be, when the iPhone is so new and only at version 1.0? It's because applications are installed directly over the Internet to the iPhone by making menu selections on the iPhone. No "sideloading" via a tethered Windows (or Mac) computer is involved at all. Installation of a new application is basically one-click.
You are so slow. I posted that a while back. And it is NOT going to be easy for most people. I, and many others, also want our programs to have a backup on our HDD's, or backup device should something happen to them. So far, I don't see a way this can work with the direct process. We still have to go and download those programs for backup. If the program is free, or shareware, it won't matter much, but if you have programs to buy, it's different. You can't simply keep downloading the files.
If you can stomach such awful web page and html e-mail rendering and are able to fumble through the web sites you need to use with a Treo, then by all means, suck up all the bytes you can at 3G speed.
If you are that incompetent that you find the browser so difficult, then I can understand your problem.
If not, then you are making a big deal over nothing. Yes. The browser isn't wonderful, but it works just fine.
I don't spend hours on it. I use it the way most people use phone browsers. when I need information quickly, I go to it. then I close it.
Safari is more enjoyable to be sure, as I stated over and over, though you don't seem to read that when I post it.
But, for me, and for many others, the slow speeds trump the interface.
If you don't find that to be so, then fine for you. Can you let it go now?
You are so slow. I posted that a while back. And it is NOT going to be easy for most people.
Excuse me for not hanging on your every word! Did you already describe how easy it is to install third party apps on the iPhone? If even that is too difficult for most people (or for you), then consider the iPhone isn't for most people. Most people don't need a smart phone, especially if it's going to cost them another $20/day over what they've been paying for a cell phone. As for maintaining backups of third party software on one's personal computer, perhaps one day the vision behind Google will bite you.
The iPhone which I would at least consider along with many others is a smart phone and in general to date has not made a scratch whens to pda and palm use in the corporate world.
True because Apple did not design the iPhone specifically for corporate like the Black Berry. They designed it for consumers
.
Quote:
Intel has certainly been the spark over the last year for Apple.
Yes Intel has helped. But it was one of many good choices made by Apple.
Quote:
How can you say Apple supports an open Standard? You an run Windows OS on any harware you can only run Mac OS if you by a system from Apple. Thats about as closed as you can get.
Thats a business model not an open standard. There is also nothing open about Windows.
Quote:
Also unless you are a teacher and are willing to dump a great deal of money for photo editing the only option on a mac that runs univeral binary is CS3, you can get PSP or Adobe Photoshop Element
Anyone who really needs to use Photoshop is not thinking of Elements, Mac or PC.
Quote:
In the Windows world you just do what you want too and it works, when you use a Mac the reason you become so creative is your always having to fine a work around to get your work out to share with the other 96% of the world.
This is generally only true if you are working with formats developed by MS and only work on Windows.
Quote:
For some odd reason Steve Jobs still fails to understand when it comes to the computing world he has never owned more than 6-7% of that population and in the past that has been as little as 2-3%.
I think he knows this. Marketshare does not account for profit, Apple is worth $115 billion.
Quote:
While I sound anit Apple I would actually love for them to get about 50% market share when ti comes to their OS so we can actually get creative and for once revolutionary apps that actually work cross platform.
Which creative and revolutionary apps is the Mac missing that 50% marketshare would bring?
Quote:
True competition is really the only way for the end user to win in all this.
Does this mean we have false competition right now?
Excuse me for not hanging on your every word! Did you already describe how easy it is to install third party apps on the iPhone? If even that is too difficult for most people (or for you), then consider the iPhone isn't for most people. Most people don't need a smart phone, especially if it's going to cost them another $20/day over what they've been paying for a cell phone. As for maintaining backups of third party software on one's personal computer, perhaps one day the vision behind Google will bite you.
Oh lord!
Do you just read the posts between us, or do you read all of them? If you read all of them, you would see that there is already a statement about that. Several, in fact, from me.
One more time then.
It isn't too difficult for you or me, as I said to auxio. But, the general public won't agree with that. Installing the installer will be too much for them. Just having to look for it will be too much for them.
If you read one of my last posts to auxio, you will see that I'm interested in finding a better solution than that, and that it MIGHT come. I might even be interested in bankrolling part of it.
Most people who want an iPhone will be just as happy with it as they should be, considering that they won't be interested in other programs, and I have no problem with that.
But, there are is a large number of people who use true smartphones, and remember that Jobs himself said that this is NOT a smartphone (yet!).
That group is waiting to see what will happen next.
You can poo poo all you want, but we have our own concerns which are just as legitimate as yours.
If Apple announced 3G and third party apps off the bat, I would already have one, as would my wife.
I'd argue that the community surrounding these apps and 3rd party iPhone development in general is much more responsive than most commercial software customer support.
Not only fixing bugs within the app itself but what if some errant app severely negatively effects critical software within the phone. There is little the community could do to fix that. I'm sure they have the best intensions, but I wouldn't risk it.
Do you just read the posts between us, or do you read all of them? If you read all of them, you would see that there is already a statement about that. Several, in fact, from me.
Indeed, you have often posted how difficult it is to install 3rd party apps on the iPhone. Who could miss that? I thought you might have provided some further insight into how easy it is to hack the iPhone. Meanwhile, the process gets easier and easier*. Many people who use smart phones want to tweak the devices in a myriad of ways that the general public might find too complex. In fact the lack of tweakability has been one of the chief complaints against the iPhone, right? Well, now there's TapApp. Perhaps it's too easy? Thank God!
Not only fixing bugs within the app itself but what if some errant app severely negatively effects critical software within the phone. There is little the community could do to fix that. I'm sure they have the best intensions, but I wouldn't risk it.
Like that hasn't been a problem with Windows Mobile and Treo devices.
Indeed, you have often posted how difficult it is to install 3rd party apps on the iPhone. Who could miss that? I thought you might have provided some further insight into how easy it is to hack the iPhone. Meanwhile, the process gets easier and easier*. Many people who use smart phones want to tweak the devices in a myriad of ways that the general public might find too complex. In fact the lack of tweakability has been one of the chief complaints against the iPhone, right? Well, now there's TapApp. Perhaps it's too easy? Thank God!
You really aren't paying attention. You are being very closed to this. Either you don't understand the average phone user, r don't care.
I've never said that this is difficult per se, just that the average phone user will find it to be so.
You must be very young, and have never heard of the joke about the blinking 12:00 o'clock VCR program setting.
It isn't easy to hack into the iPhone, but there are some pretty smart, and dedicated people out there, and kudo's to them.
My HOPE has been that people will get third party programs on the iPhone, and I don't mind the unlocking of the phone either, because it is legal to do so, and Jobs said that Aple won't prevent it.
All I'm saying is that there are some features that some of us want that aren't there yet.
I question the journalistic integrity of this "review." I could only conclude that from the start you set out to disparage the Treo.<snip>
I was hoping for a real world study of someone who really put these two phones through a real world test, but this wasn't it.
I haven't read all the comments yet, but certainly the writer was sold on the iPhone.
Unfortunately - it's hard to tell whether he was objective (and sold!), or was predisposed to liking the iPhone. It could be either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2
Yes, I thought an iPhone-Treo 650 comparison would be a "strawman" argument. Of course the Treo will come out looking bad. At least AI has compared the iPhone to the RIM 8700. Nokia owners seem so hot on the N95, that a comparison to it would be worthwhile, too.
I'd like an N95 comparison.
More than that - much of this comparison was talking about what worked best for a Mac user, and I'd expect the iPhone to win that. A comparison of the Treo on Windows against the iPhone on Windows would have to be significantly different, and I'd find it very interesting.
One very clear missing feature of the iPhone is its inability to be used as a tethered Internet access point, also known as a Dial Up Networking service after Windows' DUN control panel. That means you can't connect an iPhone to your laptop and use its mobile data service to browse the web or check email. This appears to be a limitation imposed by AT&T, which doesn't seem to allow this for any of its phones.
I can understand AT&T don't want this. They offer a cheap unlimited data plan, but the iPhone is limited in the data that will be used. If you could plug in your home computer or laptop, there'd be some people who would use 10-50 times the average iPhone user amounts.
That said, I think it's an oversight.
Perhaps Apple should offer laptop email via the iPhone (protected to make AT&T happy)? Or AT&T could offer a data package for your laptop (via the iPhone) - so that you can browse the web if you want.
Wow. I had no idea that Palm users are so touchy about their favorite smartphones. If you really want a Treo, go for it! Nobody is stopping you. Besides, Sprint could really use the business right now after getting punished by switchers moving to the iPhone on AT&T. Not that AT&T is that great , mind you.
On the other hand, I think this is a fine article by someone who really understands the nuances between these devices. It is obvious that Daniel has used both of these phones extensively, and has thought about it enough to put together an insightful analysis. I actually read all of the linked articles and references, and found them to be interesting in their own right. Did everyone else? I didn't think so.
Argue and quibble about tit-for-tat features and pricing, but it's obvious in the grand scheme of things that the iPhone is a game changer, and the Treo is so status quo. Don't get me wrong, I think Palm makes some okay products, but they're in a race to the bottom right now. I'll leave it up to everyone else who hasn't used an iPhone to argue why they don't think so. Hint: How many times did you read about people lining up to buy a Treo-(insert model here...)?
Wow. I had no idea that Palm users are so touchy about their favorite smartphones. If you really want a Treo, go for it! Nobody is stopping you. Besides, Sprint could really use the business right now after getting punished by switchers moving to the iPhone on AT&T. Not that AT&T is that great , mind you.
On the other hand, I think this is a fine article by someone who really understands the nuances between these devices. It is obvious that Daniel has used both of these phones extensively, and has thought about it enough to put together an insightful analysis. I actually read all of the linked articles and references, and found them to be interesting in their own right. Did everyone else? I didn't think so.
Argue and quibble about tit-for-tat features and pricing, but it's obvious in the grand scheme of things that the iPhone is a game changer, and the Treo is so status quo. Don't get me wrong, I think Palm makes some okay products, but they're in a race to the bottom right now. I'll leave it up to everyone else who hasn't used an iPhone to argue why they don't think so. Hint: How many times did you read about people lining up to buy a Treo-(insert model here...)?
A very funny post, full of backhanded compliments. But, you missed part of what we were saying.
What open source DRM do you suggest Apple should use?
Begging the question. You can't refute the fact that both MS and Apple use closed formats for their media, and in Apple's case, it is one of their bigger products.
Quote:
Too numerous to count them all. But example: H.264 vs VC-1, AAC vs WMA, OpenGL vs Direct X, Unix vs NT, IMAP vs Exchange
For AAC vs. WMA see above. VC-1 is an open codec just like H.264. I'll give you direct X, but orginally NT was just as nearly as open as Unix, being able to run even on PPC systems, with the exception of course of Apples. IMAP is a mail protocol, whereas Exchange is an enterprise solution not quite apples to apples (no pun intended )
Quote:
I didn't specifically say Apple good - MS bad. But it is simply fact that Apple supports more open standards while MS builds its own standards to lock customers into its products.
I don't quite see it as that way. And the way things are going, as Apple and it's CEO become more entrenched in the media business, I see things becoming more closed off. Just look at the iPhone, I know it has nothing to do with standards, but it's a perfect example. You want an iPhone, as of right now you're stuck with AT&T. I know it's just business, and there's perfect logic on their end, but I personally want to have products with as much flexibility as possible. I Like Apple, but I will continue to argue for greater freedom with their products.
Comments
The iPhone which I would at least consider along with many others is a smart phone and in general to date has not made a scratch whens to pda and palm use in the corporate world.
Intel has certainly been the spark over the last year for Apple.
How can you say Apple supports an open Standard? You an run Windows OS on any harware you can only run Mac OS if you by a system from Apple. Thats about as closed as you can get.
Id rather have Apple charger double for their OS and allow me to run it on any hardware I choose, not one they feel I should be using or one that Steve Jobs feels meets my needs.
Many that I know run dual boot Windows on their Macs because you need it for business related software even more so in the near future if anyone uses Excel and needs VBA support for macros.
Also unless you are a teacher and are willing to dump a great deal of money for photo editing the only option on a mac that runs univeral binary is CS3, you can get PSP or Adobe Photoshop Elements for 89.00 for the PC which works rather well. Chat clients Yahoo, ICQ, AIM Skype are all far stronger option wise on the PC verions than Mac. For business you simply can not get away with just using Os X becasue it has such a low market share base its not worth it for third party companies to put the effort into writing software.
Another excellent example of this is I really like using Keynote compared to Powerpoint and what I can't believe is that Apple has not yet introduced a Keynote veiwer while Powerpoint has had one forever. To me that is a perfect example of Apple only allowing you to communicate with other apple user and not with the rest of the world. That is unless you export your presentation as a quicktime movie.
In the Windows world you just do what you want too and it works, when you use a Mac the reason you become so creative is your always having to fine a work around to get your work out to share with the other 96% of the world.
Member melgross make the same point regarding the iPhone, while most users are Windows users man iPhone related options only work well if you own a Mac.
For some odd reason Steve Jobs still fails to understand when it comes to the computing world he has never owned more than 6-7% of that population and in the past that has been as little as 2-3%.
While the Apple koolaid drinkers think he is the best thing since slice bread I honestly wish he would step aside and allow someone more open minded to take over.
While I sound anit Apple I would actually love for them to get about 50% market share when ti comes to their OS so we can actually get creative and for once revolutionary apps that actually work cross platform.
True competition is really the only way for the end user to win in all this.
You are going overboard in the opposite direction. The truth is somewhere in between.
I already pointed to that. It's a bit more complex than a simple GUI though. And installation is not just a couple of steps either as per the instructions I linked to shows.
Actually, once you get the third-party installer installed on the iPhone (which is itself very easy), installing new applications on the iPhone is even easier than for any other smart phone. How can that be, when the iPhone is so new and only at version 1.0? It's because applications are installed directly over the Internet to the iPhone by making menu selections on the iPhone. No "sideloading" via a tethered Windows (or Mac) computer is involved at all. Installation of a new application is basically one-tap.
Check out the simple instructions posted here:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/piece-of-...red-291184.php
Well, at least you've admitted that you haven't read my posts carefully.
I meant that if you assume I haven't read your posts clearly, then I assume you have read mine the same way.
I'm not denying that you can install third party programs. But, it's not as easy as you say it is.
Easy would be downloading a program you bought, or shareware, or freeware, and just installing it through itunes, or just by double clicking on the install icon for the program. Or perhaps just dragging it to the iphone's icon on the monitor screen.
Actually, that nullriver installer you pointed out is even easier than that. Once you have it installed on your iPhone (the trickiest part), it generates a list of available iPhone software right on the iPhone itself using it's internet connection. Then you select a package to install, press the install button, and it's downloaded to your phone (again using it's internet connection) and installed. No computer, no iTunes required. Doesn't get much easier than that.
I doubt that we'll see too many Mac programs being ported over.
There are several reasons for that. One, is the reason Jobs, and some programmers gave. The interface is entirely different. Mac programs require the Mac Finder. There is nothing even close on the iPhone.
Actually, there is a version of Finder for the iPhone. It's actually used by other programs for their file chooser. Though I admit that the interface is a bit clumsy.
Second is that the Mac these days uses vastly more powerful cpus than the iPhone has. As even WiFi speeds are considered to be severely limited by the cpu's speed on the iPhone, many programs would be totally brought to their knees. There is also not enough memory for many of these programs, particularly if the phone will be used for music and video.
Well, MAME and an NES emulator have already been ported with relative ease. Though the developers are now spending time optimizing them for the phone. Obviously you're not going to get first person shooters (aside from maybe Doom), but there'll be plenty of puzzle games which come along shortly (a good one already is Lights Out).
I didn't say say you said it was faster than 3G. I said that you think its fast enough. I also said that if you find those much slower than my Sprints 3G to be fine, then ok for you, but those of us with those much faster services are not willing to move several steps back as you are willing to do.
I already said that Safari is better than what I have on my Treo 700p, but that the really slow (compared to mine) service is too much to bear.
If you can stomach such awful web page and html e-mail rendering and are able to fumble through the web sites you need to use with a Treo, then by all means, suck up all the bytes you can at 3G speed. I'm happier investing a little more time into the download, not to have the advanced technologies of WM/PalmOS/Symbian getting in the way.
Actually, once you get the third-party installer installed on the iPhone (which is itself very easy), installing new applications on the iPhone is even easier than for any other smart phone. How can that be, when the iPhone is so new and only at version 1.0? It's because applications are installed directly over the Internet to the iPhone by making menu selections on the iPhone. No "sideloading" via a tethered Windows (or Mac) computer is involved at all. Installation of a new application is basically one-click.
Check out the simple instructions posted here:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/piece-of-...red-291184.php
You are so slow. I posted that a while back. And it is NOT going to be easy for most people. I, and many others, also want our programs to have a backup on our HDD's, or backup device should something happen to them. So far, I don't see a way this can work with the direct process. We still have to go and download those programs for backup. If the program is free, or shareware, it won't matter much, but if you have programs to buy, it's different. You can't simply keep downloading the files.
If you can stomach such awful web page and html e-mail rendering and are able to fumble through the web sites you need to use with a Treo, then by all means, suck up all the bytes you can at 3G speed.
If you are that incompetent that you find the browser so difficult, then I can understand your problem.
If not, then you are making a big deal over nothing. Yes. The browser isn't wonderful, but it works just fine.
I don't spend hours on it. I use it the way most people use phone browsers. when I need information quickly, I go to it. then I close it.
Safari is more enjoyable to be sure, as I stated over and over, though you don't seem to read that when I post it.
But, for me, and for many others, the slow speeds trump the interface.
If you don't find that to be so, then fine for you. Can you let it go now?
You are so slow. I posted that a while back. And it is NOT going to be easy for most people.
Excuse me for not hanging on your every word! Did you already describe how easy it is to install third party apps on the iPhone? If even that is too difficult for most people (or for you), then consider the iPhone isn't for most people. Most people don't need a smart phone, especially if it's going to cost them another $20/day over what they've been paying for a cell phone. As for maintaining backups of third party software on one's personal computer, perhaps one day the vision behind Google will bite you.
The iPhone which I would at least consider along with many others is a smart phone and in general to date has not made a scratch whens to pda and palm use in the corporate world.
True because Apple did not design the iPhone specifically for corporate like the Black Berry. They designed it for consumers
.
Intel has certainly been the spark over the last year for Apple.
Yes Intel has helped. But it was one of many good choices made by Apple.
How can you say Apple supports an open Standard? You an run Windows OS on any harware you can only run Mac OS if you by a system from Apple. Thats about as closed as you can get.
Thats a business model not an open standard. There is also nothing open about Windows.
Also unless you are a teacher and are willing to dump a great deal of money for photo editing the only option on a mac that runs univeral binary is CS3, you can get PSP or Adobe Photoshop Element
Anyone who really needs to use Photoshop is not thinking of Elements, Mac or PC.
In the Windows world you just do what you want too and it works, when you use a Mac the reason you become so creative is your always having to fine a work around to get your work out to share with the other 96% of the world.
This is generally only true if you are working with formats developed by MS and only work on Windows.
For some odd reason Steve Jobs still fails to understand when it comes to the computing world he has never owned more than 6-7% of that population and in the past that has been as little as 2-3%.
I think he knows this. Marketshare does not account for profit, Apple is worth $115 billion.
While I sound anit Apple I would actually love for them to get about 50% market share when ti comes to their OS so we can actually get creative and for once revolutionary apps that actually work cross platform.
Which creative and revolutionary apps is the Mac missing that 50% marketshare would bring?
True competition is really the only way for the end user to win in all this.
Does this mean we have false competition right now?
Excuse me for not hanging on your every word! Did you already describe how easy it is to install third party apps on the iPhone? If even that is too difficult for most people (or for you), then consider the iPhone isn't for most people. Most people don't need a smart phone, especially if it's going to cost them another $20/day over what they've been paying for a cell phone. As for maintaining backups of third party software on one's personal computer, perhaps one day the vision behind Google will bite you.
Oh lord!
Do you just read the posts between us, or do you read all of them? If you read all of them, you would see that there is already a statement about that. Several, in fact, from me.
One more time then.
It isn't too difficult for you or me, as I said to auxio. But, the general public won't agree with that. Installing the installer will be too much for them. Just having to look for it will be too much for them.
If you read one of my last posts to auxio, you will see that I'm interested in finding a better solution than that, and that it MIGHT come. I might even be interested in bankrolling part of it.
Most people who want an iPhone will be just as happy with it as they should be, considering that they won't be interested in other programs, and I have no problem with that.
But, there are is a large number of people who use true smartphones, and remember that Jobs himself said that this is NOT a smartphone (yet!
That group is waiting to see what will happen next.
You can poo poo all you want, but we have our own concerns which are just as legitimate as yours.
If Apple announced 3G and third party apps off the bat, I would already have one, as would my wife.
But, I'm willing to wait.
Google. Just like buying videos from them, yes?
I'd argue that the community surrounding these apps and 3rd party iPhone development in general is much more responsive than most commercial software customer support.
Not only fixing bugs within the app itself but what if some errant app severely negatively effects critical software within the phone. There is little the community could do to fix that. I'm sure they have the best intensions, but I wouldn't risk it.
Oh lord!
Do you just read the posts between us, or do you read all of them? If you read all of them, you would see that there is already a statement about that. Several, in fact, from me.
Indeed, you have often posted how difficult it is to install 3rd party apps on the iPhone. Who could miss that? I thought you might have provided some further insight into how easy it is to hack the iPhone. Meanwhile, the process gets easier and easier*. Many people who use smart phones want to tweak the devices in a myriad of ways that the general public might find too complex. In fact the lack of tweakability has been one of the chief complaints against the iPhone, right? Well, now there's TapApp. Perhaps it's too easy? Thank God!
*
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/08/28/insta...thout-hacking/
Not only fixing bugs within the app itself but what if some errant app severely negatively effects critical software within the phone. There is little the community could do to fix that. I'm sure they have the best intensions, but I wouldn't risk it.
Like that hasn't been a problem with Windows Mobile and Treo devices.
Indeed, you have often posted how difficult it is to install 3rd party apps on the iPhone. Who could miss that? I thought you might have provided some further insight into how easy it is to hack the iPhone. Meanwhile, the process gets easier and easier*. Many people who use smart phones want to tweak the devices in a myriad of ways that the general public might find too complex. In fact the lack of tweakability has been one of the chief complaints against the iPhone, right? Well, now there's TapApp. Perhaps it's too easy? Thank God!
*
http://www.tuaw.com/2007/08/28/insta...thout-hacking/
You really aren't paying attention. You are being very closed to this. Either you don't understand the average phone user, r don't care.
I've never said that this is difficult per se, just that the average phone user will find it to be so.
You must be very young, and have never heard of the joke about the blinking 12:00 o'clock VCR program setting.
It isn't easy to hack into the iPhone, but there are some pretty smart, and dedicated people out there, and kudo's to them.
My HOPE has been that people will get third party programs on the iPhone, and I don't mind the unlocking of the phone either, because it is legal to do so, and Jobs said that Aple won't prevent it.
All I'm saying is that there are some features that some of us want that aren't there yet.
You are making a big deal about nothing.
Either that, or you are an Apple Nazi.
I question the journalistic integrity of this "review." I could only conclude that from the start you set out to disparage the Treo.<snip>
I was hoping for a real world study of someone who really put these two phones through a real world test, but this wasn't it.
I haven't read all the comments yet, but certainly the writer was sold on the iPhone.
Unfortunately - it's hard to tell whether he was objective (and sold!), or was predisposed to liking the iPhone. It could be either.
Yes, I thought an iPhone-Treo 650 comparison would be a "strawman" argument. Of course the Treo will come out looking bad. At least AI has compared the iPhone to the RIM 8700. Nokia owners seem so hot on the N95, that a comparison to it would be worthwhile, too.
I'd like an N95 comparison.
More than that - much of this comparison was talking about what worked best for a Mac user, and I'd expect the iPhone to win that. A comparison of the Treo on Windows against the iPhone on Windows would have to be significantly different, and I'd find it very interesting.
I don't mind the unlocking of the phone either, because it is legal to do so, and Jobs said that Aple won't prevent it.
Hi Mel
Did Jobs say that? I know he said it about the AppleTV, but haven't heard about the iPhone.
Thanks
One very clear missing feature of the iPhone is its inability to be used as a tethered Internet access point, also known as a Dial Up Networking service after Windows' DUN control panel. That means you can't connect an iPhone to your laptop and use its mobile data service to browse the web or check email. This appears to be a limitation imposed by AT&T, which doesn't seem to allow this for any of its phones.
I can understand AT&T don't want this. They offer a cheap unlimited data plan, but the iPhone is limited in the data that will be used. If you could plug in your home computer or laptop, there'd be some people who would use 10-50 times the average iPhone user amounts.
That said, I think it's an oversight.
Perhaps Apple should offer laptop email via the iPhone (protected to make AT&T happy)? Or AT&T could offer a data package for your laptop (via the iPhone) - so that you can browse the web if you want.
Hi Mel
Did Jobs say that? I know he said it about the AppleTV, but haven't heard about the iPhone.
Thanks
Yup. He was asked about that, and he said that Apple won't prevent it.
With the ATv, he said that once people buy them, they're theirs, and they can do what they want with them.
On the other hand, I think this is a fine article by someone who really understands the nuances between these devices. It is obvious that Daniel has used both of these phones extensively, and has thought about it enough to put together an insightful analysis. I actually read all of the linked articles and references, and found them to be interesting in their own right. Did everyone else? I didn't think so.
Argue and quibble about tit-for-tat features and pricing, but it's obvious in the grand scheme of things that the iPhone is a game changer, and the Treo is so status quo. Don't get me wrong, I think Palm makes some okay products, but they're in a race to the bottom right now. I'll leave it up to everyone else who hasn't used an iPhone to argue why they don't think so. Hint: How many times did you read about people lining up to buy a Treo-(insert model here...)?
Wow. I had no idea that Palm users are so touchy about their favorite smartphones. If you really want a Treo, go for it! Nobody is stopping you. Besides, Sprint could really use the business right now after getting punished by switchers moving to the iPhone on AT&T. Not that AT&T is that great , mind you.
On the other hand, I think this is a fine article by someone who really understands the nuances between these devices. It is obvious that Daniel has used both of these phones extensively, and has thought about it enough to put together an insightful analysis. I actually read all of the linked articles and references, and found them to be interesting in their own right. Did everyone else? I didn't think so.
Argue and quibble about tit-for-tat features and pricing, but it's obvious in the grand scheme of things that the iPhone is a game changer, and the Treo is so status quo. Don't get me wrong, I think Palm makes some okay products, but they're in a race to the bottom right now. I'll leave it up to everyone else who hasn't used an iPhone to argue why they don't think so. Hint: How many times did you read about people lining up to buy a Treo-(insert model here...)?
A very funny post, full of backhanded compliments. But, you missed part of what we were saying.
What open source DRM do you suggest Apple should use?
Begging the question. You can't refute the fact that both MS and Apple use closed formats for their media, and in Apple's case, it is one of their bigger products.
Too numerous to count them all. But example: H.264 vs VC-1, AAC vs WMA, OpenGL vs Direct X, Unix vs NT, IMAP vs Exchange
For AAC vs. WMA see above. VC-1 is an open codec just like H.264. I'll give you direct X, but orginally NT was just as nearly as open as Unix, being able to run even on PPC systems, with the exception of course of Apples. IMAP is a mail protocol, whereas Exchange is an enterprise solution not quite apples to apples (no pun intended
I didn't specifically say Apple good - MS bad. But it is simply fact that Apple supports more open standards while MS builds its own standards to lock customers into its products.
I don't quite see it as that way. And the way things are going, as Apple and it's CEO become more entrenched in the media business, I see things becoming more closed off. Just look at the iPhone, I know it has nothing to do with standards, but it's a perfect example. You want an iPhone, as of right now you're stuck with AT&T. I know it's just business, and there's perfect logic on their end, but I personally want to have products with as much flexibility as possible. I Like Apple, but I will continue to argue for greater freedom with their products.