The on-line price for a Treo 700p from VerizonWireless is $400, and the monthly service plan including 450 minutes and unlimited data is $80/month, plus taxes and fees. With the $20/month savings on the iPhone's $60/month service, over 2 years of the contract, the $200 extra cost of an 8 GB iPhone (plus tax) and the $175 Verizon early termination fee are all more than paid for.
Both Sprint and Verison give Treo 700p's for $299 with a two year contract.
You haven't been reading the prices people have said they are paying.
Try Sprints site as well.
Your prices are overblown.
It's also cute the way you put "taxes and fees" onto Verisons' prices, but not on ATTs'. Good going. That will fool everyone.
What you miss is that Apple supports open standards and does not work to support MS propreitary lock in standards.
Interesting, try playing a video bought from iTunes with any player other than what Apple makes. And up until recently all music bought was the same.
What exactly are these proprietary lock in standards that MS has but Apple does not have. Both companies use DRM in their media offerings. Both companies fail to release SDKs for the products they sell that they want kept closed. iWork 08 uses it's own format, just like Office.
How about the Apple display connector? remember that? Apple monitors ONLY working with Apple computers.
And if Apple is so open, why can I only run Mac OS X on a Apple computer instead of any machine I choose?
Listen, you like Apple stuff fine. But that whole MS Bad, Apple good crap should stay locked away in 1995 where it belongs.
I'm not denying that you can FIND spots. But, you can't just whip out your phone and have it, like I can, with my 3G.
I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.
I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.
$15 is not such a "large" monthly fee.
Was it you or Foo2 who also spoke about paying the "small" monthly fees to use the various WiFi spots?
Since both of you are complaining about costs, it seems a bit odd that either one of you would consider paying anything extra for a very limited use.
Oh, and you never did respond to the things that I can do with my phone that you can't do with yours. I assumed that you would have.
Didn't know that. All I read was what was on their website. I'm assuming that the software or method will be leaked at some point. It's only a matter of time...
It is here in Canada (given no unlimited data plan exists). And, like I said, I typically don't use those pay hotspots.
Quote:
Oh, and you never did respond to the things that I can do with my phone that you can't do with yours. I assumed that you would have.
One month after people figured out how to build and install apps on the iPhone and you're trying to hold that over my head. Gimme a break... ask me again in a few months. Even if Apple had released an SDK you wouldn't have all your apps available yet and you'd still be complaining.
Yeah the Apple faithful always apologize for Apple and let us know what we really "don't need" they have more excuses than a pregnant Nun.
[...]
The simple fact is Apple has had a great two years not because of Apple but because of the Intel name and the fact you can now install Windows on Apple hardware to make up for the lack of OsX third party apps.
[...]
The iphone will be no different and for the exception of ipods Apple will never have any real market share of anything. The only reason ipods have such a huge market share is they are mostly used by windows users.
People can debate this tell me im full of shit but 30 years of history is hard to dispute.
Check the historical price of AAPL. You'll find the price actually declined for 6+ months after the initial deliveries of Intel-based hardware. Apple has actually had a great decade, since Jobs returned. The biggest down-turns were the dot-com and 9/11 issues, followed by the Intel transition.
If usability by Windows users is the criterion that determines a product's success, then the iPhone will be a success as well as the iPod has been.
Interesting, try playing a video bought from iTunes with any player other than what Apple makes. And up until recently all music bought was the same.
What open source DRM do you suggest Apple should use?
Quote:
What exactly are these proprietary lock in standards that MS has but Apple does not have.
Too numerous to count them all. But example: H.264 vs VC-1, AAC vs WMA, OpenGL vs Direct X, Unix vs NT, IMAP vs Exchange
Quote:
How about the Apple display connector? remember that?
That was a proprietary experiement for Apple but it did not last long.
Quote:
And if Apple is so open, why can I only run Mac OS X on a Apple computer instead of any machine I choose?
That has nothing to do with supporting open standards.
Quote:
But that whole MS Bad, Apple good crap should stay locked away in 1995 where it belongs.
I didn't specifically say Apple good - MS bad. But it is simply fact that Apple supports more open standards while MS builds its own standards to lock customers into its products.
The on-line price for a Treo 700p from VerizonWireless is $400, and the monthly service plan including 450 minutes and unlimited data is $80/month, plus taxes and fees. With the $20/month savings on the iPhone's $60/month service, over 2 years of the contract, the $200 extra cost of an 8 GB iPhone (plus tax) and the $175 Verizon early termination fee are all more than paid for.
Or you could get a Treo 755p from Sprint for $199 and get a monthly service plan with unlimited data for $55.
Oh...and the $39.99 data plan from Sprint that you keep referring to is for laptops with mobile broadband cards.
I already have it. And it shouldn't take too long for a GUI app to appear...
It's still dubiously legal there, and pretty much so here.
Quote:
So there you go. 2 minutes of research and you found something easy to use.
Well, if you think the general iPhone using public will think that's easy, you're nuts.
Quote:
Didn't know that. All I read was what was on their website. I'm assuming that the software or method will be leaked at some point. It's only a matter of time...
So far, all of this stuff is questionable, at best. And it isn't even known if it exists, as no one has seen it.
I had that a while ago, and it's faster than ATT's EDGE.
Try Sprints site.
Try the Wikipedia:
"1xRTT almost doubles the capacity of IS-95 by adding 64 more traffic channels to the forward link, orthogonal to (in quadrature with) the original set of 64. Although capable of higher data rates, most deployments are limited to a peak of 144 kbit/s."
"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards."
I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.
no, you can't. First of all, the phone isn't available up there from any ervice. If you have one, then you are doing so with a questionably legal device.
Second of all, you are not using the Visual Voicemail that has been considered to be one of the iPhones best features. If not, then you can't complain about some of the Treo's lapses. One makes up for the other.
But, I was, as you now, referring to WiFi. No matter what you say, it is nowhere as available as my 3G is. If you are not willing to pay for 3G anyway, then talking about high speed service makes no sense at all. For those of us who are willing to pay, which is just about all of us who want data services, 3G trumps WiFi right now no matter what light you put on it.
My Treo with Sprint has MUCH faster download times as compared to the iPhone on ATT. I've compared these speeds with a friend and his iPhone, downloading the same sites.
His phone is simply much slower. This isn't a guess on my part, as it is on yours. You are also ignoring all that has been written about this. no one ever says that it is fast. Some have said that it isn't too bad, which isn't the same thing as saying that it is good.
If you are willing to put up with the slow service, then fine. Many of us are not.
I didn't write AT&T's "Fine EDGE" was faster than 3G. I wrote that the speed of EDGE on the iPhone was perfectly adequate for most browsing, that raw download measures are not necessarily accurate measures of browsing speed, and that the iPhone's browsing speed was enhanced by its fast microprocessor. I should know. In recent years I've burned through a Treo 650, 700p, 750 and HTC 8525, all accessorized with essential reserve batteries.
If you are willing to put up with a cell phone that downloads even at gigabit/second speed but comes with a cr@p web browser, cr@p html e-mail and cr@p UI, then fine. Many of us are not.
It's still dubiously legal there, and pretty much so here.
Which is why I see cellular unlocking companies in most major shopping centers here. I'd think the police would shut them down much sooner than they'd come breaking down my door.
Quote:
Well, if you think the general iPhone using public will think that's easy, you're nuts.
There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.
Quote:
So far, all of this stuff is questionable, at best. And it isn't even known if it exists, as no one has seen it.
There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.
Second of all, you are not using the Visual Voicemail that has been considered to be one of the iPhones best features. If not, then you can't complain about some of the Treo's lapses. One makes up for the other.
I never complained about Treo's lapses. I just think the iPhone is a better device. My main focus isn't necessarily the phone functionality, but also in an easy-to-use music player, camera, photo browser, etc.
Quote:
But, I was, as you now, referring to WiFi. No matter what you say, it is nowhere as available as my 3G is. If you are not willing to pay for 3G anyway, then talking about high speed service makes no sense at all. For those of us who are willing to pay, which is just about all of us who want data services, 3G trumps WiFi right now no matter what light you put on it.
I would gladly sign up for a monthly service with reasonable data fees based on how much I use the phone if I could (the key word there is having a choice based on my usage). Unfortunately, no one has such a service here in Canada.
Comments
The on-line price for a Treo 700p from VerizonWireless is $400, and the monthly service plan including 450 minutes and unlimited data is $80/month, plus taxes and fees. With the $20/month savings on the iPhone's $60/month service, over 2 years of the contract, the $200 extra cost of an 8 GB iPhone (plus tax) and the $175 Verizon early termination fee are all more than paid for.
Both Sprint and Verison give Treo 700p's for $299 with a two year contract.
You haven't been reading the prices people have said they are paying.
Try Sprints site as well.
Your prices are overblown.
It's also cute the way you put "taxes and fees" onto Verisons' prices, but not on ATTs'. Good going. That will fool everyone.
You're wrong again. This is really silly. Both Sprint and Verison have 3G all over the country. Of the big three, only ATT has limited 3G service.
Try 1xRTT (brown, slower than EDGE) over much of the country, with 3G (yellow) in major metropolitan areas and along many major thoroughfares. ;-)
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/m...ilitypopup.jsp
What you miss is that Apple supports open standards and does not work to support MS propreitary lock in standards.
Interesting, try playing a video bought from iTunes with any player other than what Apple makes. And up until recently all music bought was the same.
What exactly are these proprietary lock in standards that MS has but Apple does not have. Both companies use DRM in their media offerings. Both companies fail to release SDKs for the products they sell that they want kept closed. iWork 08 uses it's own format, just like Office.
How about the Apple display connector? remember that? Apple monitors ONLY working with Apple computers.
And if Apple is so open, why can I only run Mac OS X on a Apple computer instead of any machine I choose?
Listen, you like Apple stuff fine. But that whole MS Bad, Apple good crap should stay locked away in 1995 where it belongs.
Try 1xRTT (brown, slower than EDGE) over much of the country, with 3G (yellow) in major metropolitan areas and along many major thoroughfares. ;-)
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/m...ilitypopup.jsp
I had that a while ago, and it's faster than ATT's EDGE.
Try Sprints site.
I'm not denying that you can FIND spots. But, you can't just whip out your phone and have it, like I can, with my 3G.
I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.
I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.
$15 is not such a "large" monthly fee.
Was it you or Foo2 who also spoke about paying the "small" monthly fees to use the various WiFi spots?
Since both of you are complaining about costs, it seems a bit odd that either one of you would consider paying anything extra for a very limited use.
Oh, and you never did respond to the things that I can do with my phone that you can't do with yours. I assumed that you would have.
By the way, here are instructions for installing the $80 device, should you be able to get it
I already have it. And it shouldn't take too long for a GUI app to appear...
That is not a general installer. This is it:
http://iphone.nullriver.com/beta/
So there you go. 2 minutes of research and you found something easy to use.
Where did you read that they are taking orders? I doubt it.
This is the latest info on that that I've seen:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...iphone-unlocks
Didn't know that. All I read was what was on their website. I'm assuming that the software or method will be leaked at some point. It's only a matter of time...
$15 is not such a "large" monthly fee.
It is here in Canada (given no unlimited data plan exists). And, like I said, I typically don't use those pay hotspots.
Oh, and you never did respond to the things that I can do with my phone that you can't do with yours. I assumed that you would have.
One month after people figured out how to build and install apps on the iPhone and you're trying to hold that over my head. Gimme a break... ask me again in a few months. Even if Apple had released an SDK you wouldn't have all your apps available yet and you'd still be complaining.
Yeah the Apple faithful always apologize for Apple and let us know what we really "don't need" they have more excuses than a pregnant Nun.
[...]
The simple fact is Apple has had a great two years not because of Apple but because of the Intel name and the fact you can now install Windows on Apple hardware to make up for the lack of OsX third party apps.
[...]
The iphone will be no different and for the exception of ipods Apple will never have any real market share of anything. The only reason ipods have such a huge market share is they are mostly used by windows users.
People can debate this tell me im full of shit but 30 years of history is hard to dispute.
Check the historical price of AAPL. You'll find the price actually declined for 6+ months after the initial deliveries of Intel-based hardware. Apple has actually had a great decade, since Jobs returned. The biggest down-turns were the dot-com and 9/11 issues, followed by the Intel transition.
If usability by Windows users is the criterion that determines a product's success, then the iPhone will be a success as well as the iPod has been.
Interesting, try playing a video bought from iTunes with any player other than what Apple makes. And up until recently all music bought was the same.
What open source DRM do you suggest Apple should use?
What exactly are these proprietary lock in standards that MS has but Apple does not have.
Too numerous to count them all. But example: H.264 vs VC-1, AAC vs WMA, OpenGL vs Direct X, Unix vs NT, IMAP vs Exchange
How about the Apple display connector? remember that?
That was a proprietary experiement for Apple but it did not last long.
And if Apple is so open, why can I only run Mac OS X on a Apple computer instead of any machine I choose?
That has nothing to do with supporting open standards.
But that whole MS Bad, Apple good crap should stay locked away in 1995 where it belongs.
I didn't specifically say Apple good - MS bad. But it is simply fact that Apple supports more open standards while MS builds its own standards to lock customers into its products.
The on-line price for a Treo 700p from VerizonWireless is $400, and the monthly service plan including 450 minutes and unlimited data is $80/month, plus taxes and fees. With the $20/month savings on the iPhone's $60/month service, over 2 years of the contract, the $200 extra cost of an 8 GB iPhone (plus tax) and the $175 Verizon early termination fee are all more than paid for.
Or you could get a Treo 755p from Sprint for $199 and get a monthly service plan with unlimited data for $55.
Oh...and the $39.99 data plan from Sprint that you keep referring to is for laptops with mobile broadband cards.
I already have it. And it shouldn't take too long for a GUI app to appear...
It's still dubiously legal there, and pretty much so here.
So there you go. 2 minutes of research and you found something easy to use.
Well, if you think the general iPhone using public will think that's easy, you're nuts.
Didn't know that. All I read was what was on their website. I'm assuming that the software or method will be leaked at some point. It's only a matter of time...
So far, all of this stuff is questionable, at best. And it isn't even known if it exists, as no one has seen it.
I had that a while ago, and it's faster than ATT's EDGE.
Try Sprints site.
Try the Wikipedia:
"1xRTT almost doubles the capacity of IS-95 by adding 64 more traffic channels to the forward link, orthogonal to (in quadrature with) the original set of 64. Although capable of higher data rates, most deployments are limited to a peak of 144 kbit/s."
"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards."
I can, I just choose not to because I don't want to pay a large monthly fee for a cellular data plan on top of my home internet service. Especially since I wouldn't use it half as much.
no, you can't. First of all, the phone isn't available up there from any ervice. If you have one, then you are doing so with a questionably legal device.
Second of all, you are not using the Visual Voicemail that has been considered to be one of the iPhones best features. If not, then you can't complain about some of the Treo's lapses. One makes up for the other.
But, I was, as you now, referring to WiFi. No matter what you say, it is nowhere as available as my 3G is. If you are not willing to pay for 3G anyway, then talking about high speed service makes no sense at all. For those of us who are willing to pay, which is just about all of us who want data services, 3G trumps WiFi right now no matter what light you put on it.
You are not reading what i wrote.
My Treo with Sprint has MUCH faster download times as compared to the iPhone on ATT. I've compared these speeds with a friend and his iPhone, downloading the same sites.
His phone is simply much slower. This isn't a guess on my part, as it is on yours. You are also ignoring all that has been written about this. no one ever says that it is fast. Some have said that it isn't too bad, which isn't the same thing as saying that it is good.
If you are willing to put up with the slow service, then fine. Many of us are not.
I didn't write AT&T's "Fine EDGE" was faster than 3G. I wrote that the speed of EDGE on the iPhone was perfectly adequate for most browsing, that raw download measures are not necessarily accurate measures of browsing speed, and that the iPhone's browsing speed was enhanced by its fast microprocessor. I should know. In recent years I've burned through a Treo 650, 700p, 750 and HTC 8525, all accessorized with essential reserve batteries.
If you are willing to put up with a cell phone that downloads even at gigabit/second speed but comes with a cr@p web browser, cr@p html e-mail and cr@p UI, then fine. Many of us are not.
It's still dubiously legal there, and pretty much so here.
Which is why I see cellular unlocking companies in most major shopping centers here. I'd think the police would shut them down much sooner than they'd come breaking down my door.
Well, if you think the general iPhone using public will think that's easy, you're nuts.
There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.
So far, all of this stuff is questionable, at best. And it isn't even known if it exists, as no one has seen it.
Engadget already reported that they'd seen it. So I'm pretty sure it exists.
There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.
I for one am not touching any of that stuff.
There is little room or reason to argue Foo2. EDGE is clearly slower than Sprint's EVDO. There is no room for argument.
And Pocket IE is unusable for most of the WWW. There is no room for argument.
Second of all, you are not using the Visual Voicemail that has been considered to be one of the iPhones best features. If not, then you can't complain about some of the Treo's lapses. One makes up for the other.
I never complained about Treo's lapses. I just think the iPhone is a better device. My main focus isn't necessarily the phone functionality, but also in an easy-to-use music player, camera, photo browser, etc.
But, I was, as you now, referring to WiFi. No matter what you say, it is nowhere as available as my 3G is. If you are not willing to pay for 3G anyway, then talking about high speed service makes no sense at all. For those of us who are willing to pay, which is just about all of us who want data services, 3G trumps WiFi right now no matter what light you put on it.
I would gladly sign up for a monthly service with reasonable data fees based on how much I use the phone if I could (the key word there is having a choice based on my usage). Unfortunately, no one has such a service here in Canada.