New iPad 4G LTE incompatible with networks outside North America

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Comments

  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 712clark View Post


    UK hasn't even got their licenses yet and networks will probably not be ready much before 2014. I would probably go for the WiFi version now or wait until the iPad 5 or iPad 6 release.



    Or buy the new version and use it on 3G. If the screen and performance is worth $100 to you, then it probably makes sense to buy the new version even if you can't use it on 4G.
  • core2core2 Posts: 49member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antosh View Post


    Note also that while the AT&T model lists both 700 and 2100MHz frequencies, the Verizon one only lists 700:



    http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/



    ('Wireless and Cellular" section)



    There only seems to be one 4G model sold in Canada, same as the AT&T one:



    http://www.apple.com/ca/ipad/specs/





    So I'd guess that either some of the Canadian networks use the 2100 band, or that Apple are mostly making the non-CDMA version to be sold globally.



    Speculation: the shortages of the AT&T version might be more to do with that model's worldwide popularity than AT&T outselling Verizon in the US ;-)



    OK if you really want to know what is going on.



    There are 2 different 700 Mhz Bands , upper and lower. Right now , ATT has 10 x 10 Mhz in the lower and Verizon has 10 x 10 Mhz in the Upper. It is highly improbable to see a device that supports both blocks because of the Transmit and Receive bands in each are opposite which causes challenges to Antenna and RF design.



    ATT and Verizon both also have AWS spectrum.



    In Canada they haven't auctioned off 700 MHZ spectrum yet, so all 3 LTE providers use AWS or 1700 / 2100 not to be confused with the european 2100 Band.



    So my guess is ATT has Lower 700 / AWS for LTE, maybe 2100 for Europe.



    Verizon would have Upper 700 / AWS (Maybe) and 2100 for Europe.



    From a CDMA / HSPA perspective, the device probably has 850 / 1900 for CDMA (Verizon) and HSPA (ATT) but we are not sure if they enabled AWS enabled for HSPA (which would be great news for T-Mobile and all the Wind / Mobilicity folks in Canada).



    They indicate the device supports 12 bands (probably the ATT one as it may be the world device) but they don't mention which technologies are supported for AWS.



    Technically, its possible, but whether they did or not, we need to see one to verify.



    By the way, If any device supports European 2100, you will see 3G networks that are AWS because there is some overlap on the downlink channels between AWS and European 2100, its just the uplink frequencies that are different.



    Cheers
  • g-newsg-news Posts: 1,060member
    Considering it is safe to assume that a lot of people who are getting the iPad 3 (aka the new iPad) now will be replacing it again in 2 years time, unless you can already benefit from LTE from where you are, you likely will see very little benefit. This is especially true for us in Europe. In Switzerland, the first LTE cells will go online only later this year (and most likely will be incompatible with the current iPads). So really, the screen and faster CPU/GPU is the only thing that improves for a major percentage of all new iPad owners. Might as well get a Wifi-only iPad then.
  • maxim730maxim730 Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    I'm already overseas and I can say with confidence that the current iPad 2 works just fine and the New iPad will work equally fine. It will simply not work on LTE in Europe but should work wit LTE once in the US.



    Yeah, but you have the AT&T iPad2 correct? The VZ iPad2 will not work unless you a) roam with VZ (costly!!!) or b) in a country that supports CDMA.



    I do have the AT&T iPad2 and I can put in a local foreign sim card to surf the web.



    But, my question is, do I need to buy the AT&T iPad3 (like the iPad2)? or can I buy the VZ iPad3, put in a foreign sim card and get 3g (or whatever) service?



    So, basically, does the VZ iPad3 have GSM frequency support?



    The answer seems to be yes from the website: http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/, but I am not as smart as you guys



    Wi-Fi (802.11a/b/g/n)

    Bluetooth 4.0 technology

    Wi-Fi + 4G for AT&T model: LTE (700, 2100 MHz)3; UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)



    Wi-Fi + 4G for Verizon model: LTE (700 MHz)3; CDMA EV-DO Rev. A (800, 1900 MHz); UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz)

    Data only4
  • smrsmr Posts: 1member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Core2 View Post


    OK if you really want to know what is going on.



    There are 2 different 700 Mhz Bands , upper and lower. Right now , ATT has 10 x 10 Mhz in the lower and Verizon has 10 x 10 Mhz in the Upper. It is highly improbable to see a device that supports both blocks because of the Transmit and Receive bands in each are opposite which causes challenges to Antenna and RF design.



    ATT and Verizon both also have AWS spectrum.



    In Canada they haven't auctioned off 700 MHZ spectrum yet, so all 3 LTE providers use AWS or 1700 / 2100 not to be confused with the european 2100 Band.



    So my guess is ATT has Lower 700 / AWS for LTE, maybe 2100 for Europe.



    Verizon would have Upper 700 / AWS (Maybe) and 2100 for Europe.



    From a CDMA / HSPA perspective, the device probably has 850 / 1900 for CDMA (Verizon) and HSPA (ATT) but we are not sure if they enabled AWS enabled for HSPA (which would be great news for T-Mobile and all the Wind / Mobilicity folks in Canada).



    They indicate the device supports 12 bands (probably the ATT one as it may be the world device) but they don't mention which technologies are supported for AWS.



    Technically, its possible, but whether they did or not, we need to see one to verify.



    By the way, If any device supports European 2100, you will see 3G networks that are AWS because there is some overlap on the downlink channels between AWS and European 2100, its just the uplink frequencies that are different.



    Cheers



    Core2 (and anyone else who may know the answer) - you seem to be most knowledgable about the various networks and I was hoping you could give me some advice. I live in the US, and currently have the AT&T version of the ipad 2. I am giving my wife the 2 and upgrading to the 3. I use Verizon for cell service and LTE is widely available in the area I live and the places I tend to travel. AT&T's LTE network coverage is not nearly as good (yet) as Verizon's is. But, the ATT ipad service has been great for travel out of the country as the ipad is unlocked and has a sim card so I have been able to purchase local SIM cards and use the ipad at a fraction of the cost of roaming on either AT&T's or Verizon's network. And, ATT's 3G/quasi 4G service (HSPA) is far faster than Verizon's 3G CDMA service.

    Do you know whether or not the Verizon version of the ipad 3 will have a SIM card that allows for the use of non-Verizon service in other countries? Or, is the SIM card going to be for LTE service only and not for 3G foreign service?

    Sorry for the long-winded post, but I guess my question comes down to which cell carrier would be a better choice given the facts/issues described above. Thanks in advance for any and all advice on this issue.



    -SMR
  • pmzpmz Posts: 3,281member
    Despite having the most bands ever on any mobile device, it gets criticized fr having too few...



    This is why AI is a third or fourth tier website. I go everywhere else first.
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post




    btw: On an OT comment. It's a shame that AI thinks it need 10 tracking companies, 3 marketing tracking companies, and 3 social networking tracking elements on this article's page. I wonder what else of our data is AI making money from.



    AI doesn't "think" it "needs" it.



    AI "knows" it can make more money selling you to more trackers.



    You are AI's product.
  • brumbrum Posts: 24member
    It has now been confirmed that LTE will not work in Europe using the new iPad (use translation service on link http://macworld.idg.se/2.1038/1.4370...n-4g-i-sverige) . Thanks for that Apple. I guess the risk is big that the next iPhone will have the same "malfunction".
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brum View Post


    It has now been confirmed that LTE will not work in Europe using the new iPad (use translation service on link http://macworld.idg.se/2.1038/1.4370...n-4g-i-sverige) . Thanks for that Apple. I guess the risk is big that the next iPhone will have the same "malfunction".



    How is it a malfunction when Apple never claimed that it would work in Europe?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,481member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    How is it a malfunction when Apple never claimed that it would work in Europe?



    He has to have something to complain about.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,133member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    He has to have something to complain about.



    It would be helpful to potential purchasers if Apple themselves clarified it, don't you think? Or have they already done so? It shouldn't always be buyer-beware.
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,481member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    It would be helpful to potential purchasers if Apple themselves clarified it, don't you think? Or have they already done so? It shouldn't always be buyer-beware.



    From the US order page (actually, all of them):



    Quote:

    In countries without compatible 4G LTE networks, the new iPad will operate on GSM network technologies such as HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA.



    And at the bottom of the UK page (I'd imagine all of them):



    Quote:

    4G coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier. See your carrier for details.



    And so I went to the linked UK carrier pages. Three out of the four don't even mention the new iPad, much less 4G.



    Vodaphone has a 4G tab on their page, but doesn't say anything about if it works or not. Note that it says LTE nowhere on the page. Note also that it doesn't actually say ANYTHING about it. Just a single image per tab.
  • maciekskontaktmaciekskontakt Posts: 203member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heyjp View Post


    As I understand it, the article is correct in that there are different LTE standards in Europe/Asia that are not compatible with N American standards.



    However, the 3G-GSM supported by AT&T in USA is the same as GSM in Europe, Australia, etc and that is supported by both the Verizon and AT&T versions. So you won't be able to run LTE, but you will be able to pick up a SIM in any AT&T compatible country and run off a short-term data plan while you are traveling.



    Spoken from a live-in-America perspective.



    Jim



    SIM does not have anything to do with frequency or coding standard. Device has. On top of that SIM has to be usable with device.





    3G is not as much standardized so may fall on 2G.



    4G LTE was supposed to stop partitioning world. Obviously revenue is more important than this.
  • jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    It would be helpful to potential purchasers if Apple themselves clarified it, don't you think? Or have they already done so? It shouldn't always be buyer-beware.



    They did - right from the start.



    There is absolutely no confusion in Apple's information. You get LTE in the US and Canada if you use one of the partner telcos. Elsewhere, you get 3G.



    Do that have to write it on a baseball bat and hit the customer with it?
  • asciiascii Posts: 5,363member
    It may hurt sales in Europe. On the other hand, the original iPhone didn't have 3G and was still a success.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,133member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    From the US order page (actually, all of them):







    And at the bottom of the UK page (I'd imagine all of them):







    And so I went to the linked UK carrier pages. Three out of the four don't even mention the new iPad, much less 4G.



    Vodaphone has a 4G tab on their page, but doesn't say anything about if it works or not. Note that it says LTE nowhere on the page. Note also that it doesn't actually say ANYTHING about it. Just a single image per tab.



    Thanks TS. Why all the questions and confusion from potential EU buyers then? Is Apple not being clear enough in your opinion or is it failure to read the on the part of the buyer?
  • tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 39,481member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Thanks TS. Why all the questions and confusion from potential EU buyers then? Is Apple not being clear enough in your opinion or is it failure to read the on the part of the buyer?



    It's? well, I suppose it's partially the fault of both of them. The carriers themselves don't provide any information about compatibility, and Apple doesn't explicitly state it's not compatible (which sometimes is grounds for lawsuits, however frivolous). I think you'd have to go to the tech specs page, find the list of frequencies, and then open up the page of the carrier you want and find THEIR frequencies (though many carriers don't bother putting that on their website?at least, it's not easy to find?and Wikipedia might be a better source than the carriers themselves).
  • brumbrum Posts: 24member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    From the US order page (actually, all of them):







    And at the bottom of the UK page (I'd imagine all of them):







    And so I went to the linked UK carrier pages. Three out of the four don't even mention the new iPad, much less 4G.



    Vodaphone has a 4G tab on their page, but doesn't say anything about if it works or not. Note that it says LTE nowhere on the page. Note also that it doesn't actually say ANYTHING about it. Just a single image per tab.



    It did say supporting LTE in at least the Swedish Apple site and since all EU Apple sites seem to have the same text now, then it seems reasonable that the same "mistake" was published on all EU Apple sites and later changed.



    One fun thing is that on the different EU Apple sites it still says "The new iPad supports fast mobile networks the world over. So you can browse the web, stream content or download a film at incredibly fast speeds. It also works on GSM/UMTS worldwide network technologies, including HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA ? the fastest 3G networks out there."



    The fast mobile networks must be LTE since the other techniques supported are mentioned later in the text block under GSM/UMTS. even if Northt America is big with a quite big population it seems a little over the edge to call one single continent as "the world over"
  • brumbrum Posts: 24member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    He has to have something to complain about.



    That was a great answer. And still you could read in the article linked that Apple confirmed that they initially promised LTE support and then changed it in at least the Swedish site... And still it says that the fast mobile networks (must be LTE since the other technologies supported are mentioned as GSM/UMTS) is supported "the world over".

    Fine if you don't agree on malfunction, but then feel free to call it crippled or any other word that can express how it will operate in the over crowded 3G networks over here. The problem is with the 3G network is not a secret to Apple. The operators in EU have been complaining (fair or not) to Apple that the i-devices "talk too much" on the network.



    Anyhow, to me an many others here in Europe the lack of European LTE support for the iPad is disappointing. We have the networks here in Sweden but they are more or less unused since very few devices are available. He operators are screaming for devices that they can promote for use in the new LTE networks. But I guess that it must be non-apple devices until at least this fall ( if the iPhone would get support for the European LTE networks) or until next year when the next iPad is presented.
  • 712clark712clark Posts: 7member
    Apple UK iPad page http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/hom...ad/select_ipad



    "The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on GSM/UMTS networks. When you travel internationally, you can also use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. In countries without compatible 4G LTE networks, the new iPad will operate on GSM worldwide network technologies such as HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA."
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