You can click on "3G / UMTS / HSPA" to get the coverage of their 3G network (which is almost entirely now DC-HSPA with 42 Mbps). And if you click on "4G / LTE", you see the coverage of their new LTE network (on 800MHz & 1800 MHz).
Interesting. And on every apple.com/XX/ipad/features site I checked (for various languages I thought I could decrypt) they all say:
Really really fast is your only option.
The new iPad supports fast cellular networks the world over — up to 4G LTE. So you can browse the web, stream content, or download a movie at blazing-fast speeds. It also works on GSM/UMTS worldwide network technologies including HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA — the fastest 3G networks out there. You’ll see downlink speeds up to 42 Mbps with DC-HSDPA and up to 21.1 Mbps with HSPA+.
So even there, in the US, they are referring to HSPA+ as 3G even though iOS 5.1 changed it to 4G for AT&T and the iTU says it's 4G.
I just wish we could get a simple term based on a level of improved performance — not underlying architecture — that customers can actually comprehend and actually give a damn about.
You're 4G if the carrier says your 4G. It's a marketing term, nothing else.
How will you know you're using LTE and not HSPA+? You can check the throughput and latency but this just tells you if you're not on HSPA+, not if you're on LTE as your LTE might be crap for a variety of reasons.
But I wonder why one has to know. WCDMA is 3G. That's 384Kbps. Should HSPA+ (which is define by the ITU as 4G) still register as 3G when it's Category 10 at 14.4Mbps? That's a huge jump in performance. It's much larger percentage jump than 14.4Mps to 73Mbps for LTE.
And to make matters worse, despite what the ITU defined people are still holding onto the ITU's old definition like a German U-boat thinking the war isn't over. Does calling 384Kbps and 73MBps all within the realm of 3G makes sense? I don't see how.
The bottom line is customers don't care about some underlying technology, they only care about the user experience which in this case is the speed of the network. At 14.4MBps HSPA+'s max theoretical speed is at least a one generation bump over the previous generation from the user's perspective... and the ITU's as of 2010.
HSPA+'s max theoretical speed is actually 168mb/s. Currently, the best HSPA+ networks go up to 42mb/s, and there are several phones with this ability (I've got the HTC Amaze, which has 42mb/s HSPA+ capability). T-Mobile recently cancelled plans to roll-out their 84mb/s HSPA+ network, instead opting for LTE.
On the german iPad features page Apple advertises with 4G and not with with the 4G/LTE icon. I bet they will have too change that again to 3G or 3G+ or HSPA+ at some point.
If I buy a AT&T Network Model of U.S of the new iPad, Can I use it with 3G service with my local service provider in my country? without any International Roaming Charges like a local connection? We dont have 4G LTE as yet. It is only 3G !!
And in future if there is 4G available here will the Same AT&T Model be able to run 4G LTE in my country ?
What country do you live in that claims HSPA+ is not 4G?
Hi, I would say that this should go for all countries. The HSPA+ and LTE are called 4G in marketing but according to the ITU-T the 4G standard has two technologies: LTE-Advanced ( successor of LTE) and WirelessMAN-Advanced. Even if HSPA+ is fast in theory, it is as far as I understande a 3G technology in the same way as GPRS and Edge are GSM technologies (2G)
Hi, I would say that this should go for all countries. The HSPA+ and LTE are called 4G in marketing but according to the ITU-T the 4G standard has two technologies: LTE-Advanced ( successor of LTE) and WirelessMAN-Advanced. Even if HSPA+ is fast in theory, it is as far as I understande a 3G technology in the same way as GPRS and Edge are GSM technologies (2G)
I don't get why people quote the older ITU definition. It's not like they recently changed it.
Interesting. I just wish we could get a simple term based on a level of improved performance ? not underlying architecture ? that customers can actually comprehend and actually give a damn about.
Hi I think that the architecture still is important since the as far as I understand 4G should be 100% based on IP while 3G use ip and older protocols.
In many European countries the 3G networks have severe capacity problems and many operators have more or less shut down investments in these networks in favour of the newer LTE networks. This is for example the case in Sweden. An iPad without compatibility with the European LtE frequencies but with the HSPA+ etc will not help very much since thespeed in reality is very slow in many parts of the 3G networks. It does not mean a thing to add support for higher speed if the capacity is so bad that you often get download speed 10-20 kbits/second which today is the reality in many of the more crowded places in the major cities. And the thing is offcourse also that the newer things like HSPA+ are not really available outside the cities.
Verizon's largest 3G network v. AT&T's fastest 3G network. I guess the reason no one throw a fit over Verizon's 3G starting with "data speeds of up to 153 kbit/s with real world data transmission averaging 60–100 kbit/s" when AT&T's EDGE maxing out at 473.6 kbps is because there was no iDevice involved for people to care about it. If a Zune falls in a warehouse and there is no one around to give a damn does it make a sound?
I have to give it to Apple. They are quick. They realized that this was going to be a problem and removed it from their webpage. I know this because I called them and asked them about the frequency differences. An Apple tech guy said that it doesn't matter because of the spread spectrum and that it covers across a large swath so go ahead and put your money down on that new iPad. I think I will check the German page and see if they washed it as well.
I believe the UK will be using 800MHz & 2.6GHz so the mobile iPad version is no good here unless the LTE radios are tuneable. If not what happens when I go on holiday to USA or a n other non-compatible LTE area? Perhaps it will drop back to the global standard UMTS or GSM?
As I understand it, the article is correct in that there are different LTE standards in Europe/Asia that are not compatible with N American standards.
However, the 3G-GSM supported by AT&T in USA is the same as GSM in Europe, Australia, etc and that is supported by both the Verizon and AT&T versions. So you won't be able to run LTE, but you will be able to pick up a SIM in any AT&T compatible country and run off a short-term data plan while you are traveling.
Spoken from a live-in-America perspective.
Jim
Hi Jim,
To clarify, does that mean the Verizon "new Ipad" can be used abroad with a local sim card? This was not possible with the VZ iPad2.
Right now I'm unsure whether to get the VZ or AT&T version of the "new iPad". I travel internationally often and I want to get the right iPad (even if I have to use a 3g service abroad with a local sim card)
I believe the UK will be using 800MHz & 2.6GHz so the mobile iPad version is no good here unless the LTE radios are tuneable. If not what happens when I go on holiday to USA or a n other non-compatible LTE area? Perhaps it will drop back to the global standard UMTS or GSM?
I spoke to Apple UK. Chances are they will not work on LTE even though the tech support said, "sure, sure. No problem. "
To clarify, does that mean the Verizon "new Ipad" can be used abroad with a local sim card? This was not possible with the VZ iPad2.
Right now I'm unsure whether to get the VZ or AT&T version of the "new iPad". I travel internationally often and I want to get the right iPad (even if I have to use a 3g service abroad with a local sim card)
Thanks!!
I'm already overseas and I can say with confidence that the current iPad 2 works just fine and the New iPad will work equally fine. It will simply not work on LTE in Europe but should work wit LTE once in the US.
I spoke to Apple UK. Chances are they will not work on LTE even though the tech support said, "sure, sure. No problem. "
UK hasn't even got their licenses yet and networks will probably not be ready much before 2014. I would probably go for the WiFi version now or wait until the iPad 5 or iPad 6 release.
Comments
That would be Estonia. Our HSPA is running at 21.6Mb/s. Here is the Tech separation that our provider has.
https://www.emt.ee/en/web/www/firmas...line-vorguinfo
Click on the "User Interface Specifications in AS EMT Public mobile Network"
Germany, for example.
This is the coverage map of Deutsche Telekom (T-Mobile):
http://www.t-mobile.de/funkversorgun...5400-_,00.html
You can click on "3G / UMTS / HSPA" to get the coverage of their 3G network (which is almost entirely now DC-HSPA with 42 Mbps). And if you click on "4G / LTE", you see the coverage of their new LTE network (on 800MHz & 1800 MHz).
Interesting. And on every apple.com/XX/ipad/features site I checked (for various languages I thought I could decrypt) they all say:So even there, in the US, they are referring to HSPA+ as 3G even though iOS 5.1 changed it to 4G for AT&T and the iTU says it's 4G.
I just wish we could get a simple term based on a level of improved performance — not underlying architecture — that customers can actually comprehend and actually give a damn about.
You're 4G if the carrier says your 4G. It's a marketing term, nothing else.
How will you know you're using LTE and not HSPA+? You can check the throughput and latency but this just tells you if you're not on HSPA+, not if you're on LTE as your LTE might be crap for a variety of reasons.
But I wonder why one has to know. WCDMA is 3G. That's 384Kbps. Should HSPA+ (which is define by the ITU as 4G) still register as 3G when it's Category 10 at 14.4Mbps? That's a huge jump in performance. It's much larger percentage jump than 14.4Mps to 73Mbps for LTE.
And to make matters worse, despite what the ITU defined people are still holding onto the ITU's old definition like a German U-boat thinking the war isn't over. Does calling 384Kbps and 73MBps all within the realm of 3G makes sense? I don't see how.
The bottom line is customers don't care about some underlying technology, they only care about the user experience which in this case is the speed of the network. At 14.4MBps HSPA+'s max theoretical speed is at least a one generation bump over the previous generation from the user's perspective... and the ITU's as of 2010.
HSPA+'s max theoretical speed is actually 168mb/s. Currently, the best HSPA+ networks go up to 42mb/s, and there are several phones with this ability (I've got the HTC Amaze, which has 42mb/s HSPA+ capability). T-Mobile recently cancelled plans to roll-out their 84mb/s HSPA+ network, instead opting for LTE.
Germany, for example.
On the german iPad features page Apple advertises with 4G and not with with the 4G/LTE icon. I bet they will have too change that again to 3G or 3G+ or HSPA+ at some point.
So even there, in the US, they are referring to HSPA+ as 3G even though iOS 5.1 changed it to 4G for AT&T and the iTU says it's 4G.
Do they now? I thought, according to ITU, even LTE is not quite 4G, only LTE Advanced will be. Confusing, indeed.
And in future if there is 4G available here will the Same AT&T Model be able to run 4G LTE in my country ?
Do they now? I thought, according to ITU, even LTE is not quite 4G, only LTE Advanced will be. Confusing, indeed.
They changed in December 2010 to include HSPA+ and LTE with some caveat that the carrier had to be working toward LTE-Advanced or something.
What country do you live in that claims HSPA+ is not 4G?
Hi, I would say that this should go for all countries. The HSPA+ and LTE are called 4G in marketing but according to the ITU-T the 4G standard has two technologies: LTE-Advanced ( successor of LTE) and WirelessMAN-Advanced. Even if HSPA+ is fast in theory, it is as far as I understande a 3G technology in the same way as GPRS and Edge are GSM technologies (2G)
Hi, I would say that this should go for all countries. The HSPA+ and LTE are called 4G in marketing but according to the ITU-T the 4G standard has two technologies: LTE-Advanced ( successor of LTE) and WirelessMAN-Advanced. Even if HSPA+ is fast in theory, it is as far as I understande a 3G technology in the same way as GPRS and Edge are GSM technologies (2G)
I don't get why people quote the older ITU definition. It's not like they recently changed it.
They changed in December 2010 to include HSPA+ and LTE with some caveat that the carrier had to be working toward LTE-Advanced or something.
Oh, right. I seem to remember now... Why can't they all just stick to a naming convention...
Interesting. I just wish we could get a simple term based on a level of improved performance ? not underlying architecture ? that customers can actually comprehend and actually give a damn about.
Hi I think that the architecture still is important since the as far as I understand 4G should be 100% based on IP while 3G use ip and older protocols.
And here I thought LTE would help unify things. Silly me.
Hmmmm..... This discussion sounds familiar.
Verizon's largest 3G network v. AT&T's fastest 3G network. I guess the reason no one throw a fit over Verizon's 3G starting with "data speeds of up to 153 kbit/s with real world data transmission averaging 60–100 kbit/s" when AT&T's EDGE maxing out at 473.6 kbps is because there was no iDevice involved for people to care about it. If a Zune falls in a warehouse and there is no one around to give a damn does it make a sound?
Yep, you're right. About halfway down on this page: http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/
edit: On the UK page that same image makes no mention of LTE. It even replaces LTE in the menu bar with 3G: http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/features/
I have to give it to Apple. They are quick. They realized that this was going to be a problem and removed it from their webpage. I know this because I called them and asked them about the frequency differences. An Apple tech guy said that it doesn't matter because of the spread spectrum and that it covers across a large swath so go ahead and put your money down on that new iPad. I think I will check the German page and see if they washed it as well.
Still mentions LTE: http://www.apple.com/de/ipad/specs/
As I understand it, the article is correct in that there are different LTE standards in Europe/Asia that are not compatible with N American standards.
However, the 3G-GSM supported by AT&T in USA is the same as GSM in Europe, Australia, etc and that is supported by both the Verizon and AT&T versions. So you won't be able to run LTE, but you will be able to pick up a SIM in any AT&T compatible country and run off a short-term data plan while you are traveling.
Spoken from a live-in-America perspective.
Jim
Hi Jim,
To clarify, does that mean the Verizon "new Ipad" can be used abroad with a local sim card? This was not possible with the VZ iPad2.
Right now I'm unsure whether to get the VZ or AT&T version of the "new iPad". I travel internationally often and I want to get the right iPad (even if I have to use a 3g service abroad with a local sim card)
Thanks!!
I believe the UK will be using 800MHz & 2.6GHz so the mobile iPad version is no good here unless the LTE radios are tuneable. If not what happens when I go on holiday to USA or a n other non-compatible LTE area? Perhaps it will drop back to the global standard UMTS or GSM?
I spoke to Apple UK. Chances are they will not work on LTE even though the tech support said, "sure, sure. No problem. "
Hi Jim,
To clarify, does that mean the Verizon "new Ipad" can be used abroad with a local sim card? This was not possible with the VZ iPad2.
Right now I'm unsure whether to get the VZ or AT&T version of the "new iPad". I travel internationally often and I want to get the right iPad (even if I have to use a 3g service abroad with a local sim card)
Thanks!!
I'm already overseas and I can say with confidence that the current iPad 2 works just fine and the New iPad will work equally fine. It will simply not work on LTE in Europe but should work wit LTE once in the US.
I spoke to Apple UK. Chances are they will not work on LTE even though the tech support said, "sure, sure. No problem. "
UK hasn't even got their licenses yet and networks will probably not be ready much before 2014. I would probably go for the WiFi version now or wait until the iPad 5 or iPad 6 release.