Steve Jobs initially blasted Genius Bars at Apple stores, says former retail head

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Apple co-founder Steve Jobs was originally resistant to the idea of the Genius Bar, now a signature feature of every Apple store, former retail head Ron Johnson said in a recent podcast.




"I remember the day I came in and told Steve about the Genius Bar idea and he says, 'That's so idiotic! It'll never work!'," Johnson explained to Recode Decode. "He said, 'Ron, you might have the right idea, but here's the big gap: I've never met someone who knows technology who knows how to connect with people. They're all geeks! You can call it the Geek Bar."

Johnson countered by pointing out that many of the people who would man Genius Bars would be in their 20s, and have grown up with the sort of technology they'd be supporting. Jobs told Apple's general counsel to trademark "Genius Bar" the following day, according to Johnson.

The latter noted that while he and Jobs "clicked from day one," he was given a homework assignment during the interview process.

"He said to me, 'It's Thanksgiving weekend coming up. Why don't you write down what you would do? How would you approach retail? Tell me about it,'" Johnson commented. "So I went back and I wrote this 10-page thesis of why Apple should do stores, what they should be like, blah blah blah."

Jobs reportedly rejected Johnson's thesis after inviting him back to Apple's offices, but said it didn't matter, and later the same day offered him the job.

The Genius Bar has sometimes been described as a linchpin of Apple's popularity, since people who need to get a Mac, iPhone, or iPad fixed can take it to a local store for official support, instead of having to find a third party or put their device in the mail.

Apple is nearing 500 stores worldwide. Recently the company announced its second store in Cologne, Germany, and rumors emerged that the first Argentinian outlet will open next year.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 31
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Jobs was mostly right. The tech people with great social skills and empathy are thin on the ground. I was the only one at every IT and tech dept I worked for and I could barely stand my coworkers because of their anti-user attitudes.

    That's why they staffed the so-called "Genius" bar with mostly non-tech people. As long as they understand basic operation of the products, they're initially helpful to end users. Anything complex needs higher level support.
    randominternetpersonjbdragonStrangeDaysviclauyycargonaut
  • Reply 2 of 31
    wootcatwootcat Posts: 3member
    And yet, here in central Illinois, it's a 2+ hour drive to the nearest Apple Store. 
    tallest skil
  • Reply 3 of 31
    NemWanNemWan Posts: 118member
    wootcat said:
    And yet, here in central Illinois, it's a 2+ hour drive to the nearest Apple Store. 
    Apple's retail model is high rent, high traffic. Try a smaller independent:  locate.apple.com.
    pulseimagesjbdragondoozydozen
  • Reply 4 of 31
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 2,464member
    Jobs always shot down ideas so they can return stronger and clearer than they were.
    pulseimagesrandominternetpersonviclauyycwatto_cobraargonautlolliver
  • Reply 5 of 31
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    So... Jobs took issue with the name, not the idea of having techs helping people.
    lolliver
  • Reply 6 of 31
    hammeroftruthhammeroftruth Posts: 1,312member
    So... Jobs took issue with the name, not the idea of having techs helping people.
    No it was the idea. He was right. On the surface, most intelligent techs have no social skills and have a hard time dealing with ignorant people or people who don't pay attention. That is why the first Geniuses had terrible bedside manners. If you brought a product to them that had no issues, they did not have any problem making you feel quite the idiot for wasting their time. Apple spent a lot of time training them to be more empathetic to frustrated customers, when in reality it's hard to have empathy for someone who fails to try to learn how to use a product before they deem it broken or defective.

    Steve understood that most techs do not have patience when it comes to explaining everything to someone who does not understand or cares to understand how a product works. He had the same problem when he would ask his engineers to make something a certain way. They would ask him why and he didn't have the time to explain every little thing. 

    So in a sense he knew that most "Geniuses" would end up upsetting a customer by pointing out their stupidity and in the beginning of Apple retail they did. I used to see it happen. I felt sorry for both the Geniuses and the customer because I remember what it was like to try to learn how to use technology, and I remember how difficult it is to try to teach to someone who wasn't very savvy when it came to technology. 
    chiaStrangeDaysviclauyycwatto_cobraargonautpte applelolliver
  • Reply 7 of 31
    This isn't really news. He's just reiterating what was already explained in the Walter Isaacson's bio of Steve Jobs
    randominternetperson
  • Reply 8 of 31
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    The majority of the crowd in Apple Stores are those waiting for a Genius Bar appointment. Assembling sales and support at the same place is not such a big idea. Disputes occur and certainly these affect sales negatively.
  • Reply 9 of 31
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    wootcat said:
    And yet, here in central Illinois, it's a 2+ hour drive to the nearest Apple Store. 
    Interesting there’s no Apple store in Springfield, IL the state capitol. I live across the Mississippi from St. Louis and there are two Apple stores within 25-30 minutes from me.
  • Reply 10 of 31
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,011member
    The majority of the crowd in Apple Stores are those waiting for a Genius Bar appointment. Assembling sales and support at the same place is not such a big idea. Disputes occur and certainly these affect sales negatively.
    I would dispute your first assertion. I don't hang out in the Apple Store every day, but my personal observations would be that a significant majority are there for browsing and sales. Also, given that Apple Stores generate more revenue-per-square-foot than any other retailer, most of those people are probably not just hanging around waiting for tech support. That same factoid probably bursts the bubble on your other assertion, too. Sales and support in the same room seems to have worked just fine.

    Also, at least anecdotally, I can say I've never seen a customer at the Genius Bar throw a fit, much less cause a scene that clears out the sales floor. I'm sure someone somewhere gets angry every once in a while, but clearly the benefits of the operation vastly outweigh the risks.
    MacProrandominternetpersonanomewatto_cobrapte applelolliver
  • Reply 11 of 31
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,112member
    AppleZulu said:
    The majority of the crowd in Apple Stores are those waiting for a Genius Bar appointment. Assembling sales and support at the same place is not such a big idea. Disputes occur and certainly these affect sales negatively.
    I would dispute your first assertion. I don't hang out in the Apple Store every day, but my personal observations would be that a significant majority are there for browsing and sales. Also, given that Apple Stores generate more revenue-per-square-foot than any other retailer, most of those people are probably not just hanging around waiting for tech support. That same factoid probably bursts the bubble on your other assertion, too. Sales and support in the same room seems to have worked just fine.

    Also, at least anecdotally, I can say I've never seen a customer at the Genius Bar throw a fit, much less cause a scene that clears out the sales floor. I'm sure someone somewhere gets angry every once in a while, but clearly the benefits of the operation vastly outweigh the risks.
    I just tried to expose Steve Jobs' probable point of view. Selling is a very delicate matter, any single emotional manner, not necessarily in the form of shouting, may ruin a sale developing on a distant table. You can train your personnel to prevent such manners but you cannot train customers.

    Take a simple example: whether an incident is covered by warranty or not. No salesman can tolerate such a dispute occur in the presence of a potential buyer.
    edited March 2017 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 12 of 31
    The majority of the crowd in Apple Stores are those waiting for a Genius Bar appointment. Assembling sales and support at the same place is not such a big idea. Disputes occur and certainly these affect sales negatively.

    Apple store blend the two in ways I haven't seen elsewhere.  When I had to get my iPhone battery replaced (for that odd recall recently), I never actually got within 20 feet of the genius bar.  I talked to people on the floor and the techs came to me.  Anywhere else I would have been waiting in a Customer Service line for quite some time before anyone knew or cared why I was there.
    mwhitewatto_cobraargonautlolliver
  • Reply 13 of 31
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    So... Jobs took issue with the name, not the idea of having techs helping people.
    No it was the idea. He was right. On the surface, most intelligent techs have no social skills and have a hard time dealing with ignorant people or people who don't pay attention. That is why the first Geniuses had terrible bedside manners. If you brought a product to them that had no issues, they did not have any problem making you feel quite the idiot for wasting their time. Apple spent a lot of time training them to be more empathetic to frustrated customers, when in reality it's hard to have empathy for someone who fails to try to learn how to use a product before they deem it broken or defective.

    Steve understood that most techs do not have patience when it comes to explaining everything to someone who does not understand or cares to understand how a product works. He had the same problem when he would ask his engineers to make something a certain way. They would ask him why and he didn't have the time to explain every little thing. 

    So in a sense he knew that most "Geniuses" would end up upsetting a customer by pointing out their stupidity and in the beginning of Apple retail they did. I used to see it happen. I felt sorry for both the Geniuses and the customer because I remember what it was like to try to learn how to use technology, and I remember how difficult it is to try to teach to someone who wasn't very savvy when it came to technology. 
    By continuing to characterize as "stupid" and "ignorant" the customers who do not possess specialist knowledge, I find your post to be an amusing example of the exact scenario both of us are referencing: tech people aren't usually burdened with an abundance of empathy. :-D
  • Reply 14 of 31
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,886member
    wootcat said:
    And yet, here in central Illinois, it's a 2+ hour drive to the nearest Apple Store. 
    Yeah but you have access to a lot of corn fields, so....
  • Reply 15 of 31
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,886member

    dysamoria said:
    Jobs was mostly right. The tech people with great social skills and empathy are thin on the ground. I was the only one at every IT and tech dept I worked for and I could barely stand my coworkers because of their anti-user attitudes.
    I agree with this, techies often do not get it. It gives a techie guy who does get it en edge. My personal motto/sig has always been:

    "The greatest challenge in software design is to bridge the gap between technology and the people who use it."


    ...Technology is not enough. This is the crux of Jobs' "intersection of technology & the humanities" thing. Liberal Arts are a feature, not a bug.
    lolliver
  • Reply 16 of 31
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,886member

    So... Jobs took issue with the name, not the idea of having techs helping people.
    No. Jobs was being sarcastic and said you may as well call it the "geek bar" because they would be alienating to customers. He was skeptical of the idea, not the name.
  • Reply 17 of 31
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    dysamoria said:
    Jobs was mostly right. The tech people with great social skills and empathy are thin on the ground. I was the only one at every IT and tech dept I worked for and I could barely stand my coworkers because of their anti-user attitudes.

    That's why they staffed the so-called "Genius" bar with mostly non-tech people. As long as they understand basic operation of the products, they're initially helpful to end users. Anything complex needs higher level support.

    I was going to say the same thing, Steve was right techie and geek do not interact well with the rest of the world. But the fact that Apple does use people with better social skills than tech skills it the exact reason I tend not to use the genius bar. The few times I gave it a try I have gone in and told them exactly what I did and what I know not to be the issue, and most time they repeat everything I have done and waste about an hour of my time only to conclude it was broken and need to be replaced. However, I do recommend others go there since I too get frustrated trying to help someone when they have no clue or care to learn. Apple for the most part stuck a good balance.
    edited March 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 31
    yojimbo007yojimbo007 Posts: 1,165member
    I still think the name is super ‘idiotic’….. Just as much as i think the use of the Pro moniker at Apple is idiotic. ( specially last few years )
  • Reply 19 of 31
    xbitxbit Posts: 390member
    I've never had anything less than a stellar experience at the Genius Bar. The staff I've encountered have been knowledgeable and friendly. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobralolliver
  • Reply 20 of 31
    Can we stop using hyperbolic verbs in headlines? "blasted". Why not go all caps? "You won't BELIEVE what Steve Jobs BLASTED!!"
    edited March 2017 StrangeDays
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