It sounds great, until you consider that when a police officer asks to see your license, you'll be handing your unlocked iPhone to him - giving him complete and total access to EVERYTHING on your phone.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
It sounds great, until you consider that when a police officer asks to see your license, you'll be handing your unlocked iPhone to him - giving him complete and total access to EVERYTHING on your phone.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
Even if Apple can figure out the hurdles, there will never be a time when I hand my phone over to LEO without a probable cause search, a warrant or having been wiped.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
Wallet on your iPhone has this functionality right now ...
Lock your iPhone and then (don’t look at it, if you have FaceID) double press the power button — you can bring up Apple Pay + cards without unlocking the phone.
Regardless, the draft specs for mobile drivers licenses don’t even require physical hand-over (they use wireless, kinda like AirDrop, to exchange data)
It sounds great, until you consider that when a police officer asks to see your license, you'll be handing your unlocked iPhone to him - giving him complete and total access to EVERYTHING on your phone.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
I’m curious why you think the identification will be like accessing a photo on your iPhone.
For myself, I already ditched my old, over stuffed leather wallet and instead carry all that I need in a wallet case for my iPhone --- and that is: driver's license, a little bit of emergency cash (for those who don't take cards) and a spare credit card for the rare occasion they don't accept Apple Pay. It works well. And, I wish Apple would offer a nice wallet case -- but all of theirs cover the face of the phone which is an unnecessary and unwelcome hassle. Mine stores everything securely behind the phone in pockets in a flap that snaps closed with magnetic fasteners. And, better yet, it looks nice and costs 1/4 what Apple's cost.
But, I wish I could have other things in my phone like: -- Medical cards -- Auto club card (for towing)
-- Nurse's license
-- Voter registration card
-- etc...
Also, I wish that my Apple Watch would also include my address, phone as well as my medical cards in its Medical ID. When I run all I have on me is my watch (and now my new Airpod Pros!). So, if I need medical attention, having access to to those medical documents could be VERY helpful and necessary. Essentially, in the U.S. its "No shirt, no shoes, no cards, no healthcare"
I understand the need and desire for official government sanctioned and honored methods of ID. But 90% of the problem could be solved with a few minor upgrades.
Yes Yes Yes. Please! I so abhor the use of cards,wallet,keys. My Tesla has freed me from keys/fobs, apple watch for payments, smart house entry .... we are almost there...let’s finish this!
No thanks. Having a central point of failure (everything on one device) is not cool. No fun if device goes missing. What if it gets hacked too? As somebody else said, don’t like idea of handing over phone ... it getting dropped. I would rather drop it. On a side note, I tried to post on the website for this forum and it does not render correctly or work. Does anybody know how to get rid of dark mode on the full website version too?
This very likely does not involve unlocking the phone or handing it over - the interaction experience will probably be very similar to Apple Pay - just tap a reader, and it’s sorted.
Hope so. No one should have to hand over their phone to a policeman.
Such a technology is available in India through a government application (available on both Android and iOS), called DigiLocker. It lets everyone show most government documents, including Driver License, Aadhar card (social security equivalent), Mark sheets, Birth certificates, etc. It will generate a QR code that can be scanned for authentication. It is treated equal to the original document and can be shown at any office. It is illegal to deny that as the document within India. Passports have not included as it is not used within India alone, but requires other country co-operation as well.
It sounds great, until you consider that when a police officer asks to see your license, you'll be handing your unlocked iPhone to him - giving him complete and total access to EVERYTHING on your phone.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
More likely you just tap your phone to a reader just like Apple Pay and it will show your ID, duh.
I'd love to have my DL on my phone accepted as having it in possession. This is the case with the required insurance card.
But the problem is knowing you're viewing a genuine document. The ability to confirm bona fides is mandatory.
No way would I assume a digital representation of an important document represents a genuine document without being able to verify it independently until policy requires it to be accepted.
Fraudulent driver's licenses are created all the time, but it's usually very easy to detect in when in hand. While it's possible to create a forgery that will fool a cop, that's few and far between.
At the moment, practically every cop in every state can get information confirmed about that state's driver's license or ID via radio - with exception of a pic of the holder.
I'd want a tap contact of the phone on a reader with an automated query to the issuer of that license, ID, and passport, if the document can't be presented. Any state that issues a digital identity document should be able to supply a copy of it when the user's copy is presented to law enforcement.
This would be similar to a credit card being accepted as valid or declined. An Apple Pay-like token would be used for retail purposes, though most retailers only glance at ID anyway.
Another plus is writing a ticket would be cake. You view the suspect's phone to see the license has his/her pic (people lie all the time) then they tap the phone on the reader and confirmation is enrollee. In the mean time a few taps on the reader/ticket book and a citation is generated and AirDropped to the suspect's phone with the violation and Officer's name and badge number.
If he or she is driving on a suspended or revoked license, furnished false information, or has an arrest warrant, that also comes up on the reader as well as the mobile display terminal. An arrest is made and appropriate transportation is furnished.
As we've seen, any system/database can be hacked figuratively or literally, so there's that. But reducing or eliminating a wallet altogether gets my vote.
I've never used Apple Pay on my SE but I've used it on the watch hundreds of times and am always surprised when someone says "Yes, we do Apple Pay". I never ask why because most checkers/clerks just won't know why management does or doesn't do something. No need to put them on the spot, even "politely".
I don't see anything like this happening for maybe 5 years minimum. Take a look and most European countries and they're years ahead of us in the implementation of so much tech.
No way would I assume a digital representation of an important document represents a genuine document without being able to verify it independently until policy requires it to be accepted.
ApplePay, our online logins, and countless others are digital do you not trust that those credentials are accurate?
If you’re not familiar with IDs being scanned (which they even do in drug stores) then think if it like tapping your CC at a grocery store to make a purchase. You aren’t handing it over, it’s never assumed that you’ve altered the data. You’re letting someone scan the data. That’s it.
With the correct setup from Apple and the gov’t, it will be securely on your iPhone and Watch and may keep law enforcement from getting personal info, like your home address.
It sounds great, until you consider that when a police officer asks to see your license, you'll be handing your unlocked iPhone to him - giving him complete and total access to EVERYTHING on your phone.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
More likely you just tap your phone to a reader just like Apple Pay and it will show your ID, duh.
It sounds great, until you consider that when a police officer asks to see your license, you'll be handing your unlocked iPhone to him - giving him complete and total access to EVERYTHING on your phone.
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
More likely you just tap your phone to a reader just like Apple Pay and it will show your ID, duh.
Still not acceptable.
It’s amazing what you find acceptable and unacceptable. Treason is acceptable, but the same system used for Apple Pay is somehow unacceptable.
It's great having the License on the phone, and since 99.9% of shops accept tap-and-go (Apple Pay) I now leave home without my wallet half the time, and it's reducing.
Knowing I can call it up (& other licenses) is useful. I pay for almost everything with my Apple Watch, but there is still one great Sushi shop near work that doesn't take cards.
Such a technology is available in India through a government application (available on both Android and iOS), called DigiLocker. It lets everyone show most government documents, including Driver License, Aadhar card (social security equivalent), Mark sheets, Birth certificates, etc. It will generate a QR code that can be scanned for authentication. It is treated equal to the original document and can be shown at any office. It is illegal to deny that as the document within India. Passports have not included as it is not used within India alone, but requires other country co-operation as well.
Two more examples of the U.S.'s "exceptionalism". I realize we are a union of separate states, but the Federal Government can make a difference if the people want it and agitate for it. Apple Pay, while a commercial enterprise, is almost a world-wide phenomenon, but still not ubiquitous here. I was on an around Great Britain cruise a couple of years ago. I did not have to pull out my wallet even once on any of the land excursions, in every country of the United Kingdom. Even the side of the road ice cream trucks took Apple Pay. And, it doesn't have to be Apple Pay. In Japan, they have electronic cards used for everything from bus rides to groceries to restaurants. (SUICA, for example). Why can't the "Greatest Nation" do it?
Interestingly enough, I lost my wallet several weeks back, and went through my state’s DMV website to procure a replacement driver’s license.
After paying the online fee, not only did I get an email confirmation, but I was also sent a digital copy that I imported into my phone’s Wallet. On my phone, it displays the issuing state, my name, photo, and an encoded matrix of all the stuff that’s normally human-readable on a physical one.
My state uses this 2d matrix for voting verification as well, so one less piece of paper to carry around.
As states of the U.S. go, mine’s considered pretty backward, too... amazing to me that they actually pulled this off.
I so wouldn't depend digital copies of drivers license or passports when traveling abroad. Here in Latin America with the Covid situation the police have popup control points all over the place and believe me they have no fancy digital scanners. In many cases you even have to have another government document called 'salvo conducto' which explains why you need to be traveling at all. As far as passports are concerned, they want to see the "real" migration stamp on the back pages. I suspect as a foreigner with limited local language skills trying to use some fancy digital documents will probably just put your travel plans on hold for hours while they figure out what to do with you.
It's great having the License on the phone, and since 99.9% of shops accept tap-and-go (Apple Pay) I now leave home without my wallet half the time, and it's reducing.
Knowing I can call it up (& other licenses) is useful. I pay for almost everything with my Apple Watch, but there is still one great Sushi shop near work that doesn't take cards.
Such a technology is available in India through a government application (available on both Android and iOS), called DigiLocker. It lets everyone show most government documents, including Driver License, Aadhar card (social security equivalent), Mark sheets, Birth certificates, etc. It will generate a QR code that can be scanned for authentication. It is treated equal to the original document and can be shown at any office. It is illegal to deny that as the document within India. Passports have not included as it is not used within India alone, but requires other country co-operation as well.
Two more examples of the U.S.'s "exceptionalism". I realize we are a union of separate states, but the Federal Government can make a difference if the people want it and agitate for it. Apple Pay, while a commercial enterprise, is almost a world-wide phenomenon, but still not ubiquitous here. I was on an around Great Britain cruise a couple of years ago. I did not have to pull out my wallet even once on any of the land excursions, in every country of the United Kingdom. Even the side of the road ice cream trucks took Apple Pay. And, it doesn't have to be Apple Pay. In Japan, they have electronic cards used for everything from bus rides to groceries to restaurants. (SUICA, for example). Why can't the "Greatest Nation" do it?
The Federal government can keep out of it and let the market decide.
Comments
Unless Apple can offer a way to display the license via the secure enclave where the phone itself is still locked, I don't see this ever happening in the U.S.
Never.
Lock your iPhone and then (don’t look at it, if you have FaceID) double press the power button — you can bring up Apple Pay + cards without unlocking the phone.
-- Medical cards
-- Auto club card (for towing)
Very interesting. I didn’t know this.
But the problem is knowing you're viewing a genuine document. The ability to confirm bona fides is mandatory.
No way would I assume a digital representation of an important document represents a genuine document without being able to verify it independently until policy requires it to be accepted.
Fraudulent driver's licenses are created all the time, but it's usually very easy to detect in when in hand. While it's possible to create a forgery that will fool a cop, that's few and far between.
At the moment, practically every cop in every state can get information confirmed about that state's driver's license or ID via radio - with exception of a pic of the holder.
I'd want a tap contact of the phone on a reader with an automated query to the issuer of that license, ID, and passport, if the document can't be presented. Any state that issues a digital identity document should be able to supply a copy of it when the user's copy is presented to law enforcement.
This would be similar to a credit card being accepted as valid or declined. An Apple Pay-like token would be used for retail purposes, though most retailers only glance at ID anyway.
Another plus is writing a ticket would be cake. You view the suspect's phone to see the license has his/her pic (people lie all the time) then they tap the phone on the reader and confirmation is enrollee. In the mean time a few taps on the reader/ticket book and a citation is generated and AirDropped to the suspect's phone with the violation and Officer's name and badge number.
If he or she is driving on a suspended or revoked license, furnished false information, or has an arrest warrant, that also comes up on the reader as well as the mobile display terminal. An arrest is made and appropriate transportation is furnished.
As we've seen, any system/database can be hacked figuratively or literally, so there's that. But reducing or eliminating a wallet altogether gets my vote.
I've never used Apple Pay on my SE but I've used it on the watch hundreds of times and am always surprised when someone says "Yes, we do Apple Pay". I never ask why because most checkers/clerks just won't know why management does or doesn't do something. No need to put them on the spot, even "politely".
I don't see anything like this happening for maybe 5 years minimum. Take a look and most European countries and they're years ahead of us in the implementation of so much tech.
If you’re not familiar with IDs being scanned (which they even do in drug stores) then think if it like tapping your CC at a grocery store to make a purchase. You aren’t handing it over, it’s never assumed that you’ve altered the data. You’re letting someone scan the data. That’s it.
Why can't the "Greatest Nation" do it?
After paying the online fee, not only did I get an email confirmation, but I was also sent a digital copy that I imported into my phone’s Wallet. On my phone, it displays the issuing state, my name, photo, and an encoded matrix of all the stuff that’s normally human-readable on a physical one.
My state uses this 2d matrix for voting verification as well, so one less piece of paper to carry around.
As states of the U.S. go, mine’s considered pretty backward, too... amazing to me that they actually pulled this off.