More 970 confirmation from IBM.
Hi,
I posted here a while back about a presentation I was at given by IBM. Afterwords I discussed the 970 and Apple with the IBM Rep. Anyhow, we had another presentation at work today.
This presentation had nothing to do with the 970 but he did once mention the upcoming blade servers. So after the class I brought it up. It was kind of hard for me to talk to them and ask Apple questions because my boss was right there. So I didn't get to ask as much as I wanted. But here's what I learned.
First of all I am not really confident that this guy knows what he's talking about, he said some things that just don't seem likely to me. But here it is anyway.
He said the Blades would be available in July. He later said June, so that made me think he wasn't sure.
I asked, "isn't that the chip that Apple is going to use?" He replied yes and that Apple had issued some kind of statement officially to IBM about a month ago that they would be using them. I can't imagine that Apple only decided this a month ago, so I think he must have meant that it was officially announced at IBM. He also said that the Gamecube will be using the 970.
I then asked when he thought they'd be out and he didn't know. He said that Apple hadn't said when nor did they say what they'd be using the chip for. However he said that they (he?) believe it's for the Powerbook. I asked him specifically if he meant the notebook and not desktops and he said yes. Although he quickly said that he didn't know for sure. He said they assumed the Powerbooks because it's a low power chip. Again, I'm not sure if this guy was right about this or not, but that is what he said.
He then went on to say the most surprising thing, and that was that he thought Motorola was manufacturing the 970, either instead of or in addition to IBM. He said he didn't know if Moto was doing this for Apple or what. I questioned him about this and said I had heard that IBM was making them, but he said it was his understanding that Moto was making them, at the very least as a second source. He said he'd look into this.
He is coming back tomorrow for the rest of our session so I can ask more questions then. This is all 100% serious, I am not making this up. But I will again say that I am not convinced that this guy knows exactly what's going on. However there seems to be no doubt that Apple is using the chip and that everyone at IBM knows it. Let me know if you have any ideas on questions I should ask tomorrow.
Cheers,
John
I posted here a while back about a presentation I was at given by IBM. Afterwords I discussed the 970 and Apple with the IBM Rep. Anyhow, we had another presentation at work today.
This presentation had nothing to do with the 970 but he did once mention the upcoming blade servers. So after the class I brought it up. It was kind of hard for me to talk to them and ask Apple questions because my boss was right there. So I didn't get to ask as much as I wanted. But here's what I learned.
First of all I am not really confident that this guy knows what he's talking about, he said some things that just don't seem likely to me. But here it is anyway.
He said the Blades would be available in July. He later said June, so that made me think he wasn't sure.
I asked, "isn't that the chip that Apple is going to use?" He replied yes and that Apple had issued some kind of statement officially to IBM about a month ago that they would be using them. I can't imagine that Apple only decided this a month ago, so I think he must have meant that it was officially announced at IBM. He also said that the Gamecube will be using the 970.
I then asked when he thought they'd be out and he didn't know. He said that Apple hadn't said when nor did they say what they'd be using the chip for. However he said that they (he?) believe it's for the Powerbook. I asked him specifically if he meant the notebook and not desktops and he said yes. Although he quickly said that he didn't know for sure. He said they assumed the Powerbooks because it's a low power chip. Again, I'm not sure if this guy was right about this or not, but that is what he said.
He then went on to say the most surprising thing, and that was that he thought Motorola was manufacturing the 970, either instead of or in addition to IBM. He said he didn't know if Moto was doing this for Apple or what. I questioned him about this and said I had heard that IBM was making them, but he said it was his understanding that Moto was making them, at the very least as a second source. He said he'd look into this.
He is coming back tomorrow for the rest of our session so I can ask more questions then. This is all 100% serious, I am not making this up. But I will again say that I am not convinced that this guy knows exactly what's going on. However there seems to be no doubt that Apple is using the chip and that everyone at IBM knows it. Let me know if you have any ideas on questions I should ask tomorrow.
Cheers,
John
Comments
Mot making the 970? IBM is allowing other people to fab the CPU, and this would allow Mot to continue supplying Apple and also to supplement IBM's capacity (especially if they're selling 970s for GameCubes!).
However, this means Mot either figured out .13 micron or .09 micron sometime... well, about the time I originally thought their latest collaboration would go online.
Eeeenterestink.
This, of course, should be taken with liberal quantities of salt. This is the same Mot that'll be shipping the 7457 9 months late.
The sun must be rising from the west
"Look at what you did! Bad Moto. No. No. Bad dog! No cookie!"
Screed
Originally posted by johnpg
Let me know if you have any ideas on questions I should ask tomorrow.
Cheers,
John
Thanks for the info.
One question would be whther they have any firmer info on the 970s performance. The Spec numbers released last October were conservative estimates, and it would be great to know whether working silicon has met or (hopefully) exceeded those predictions.
Other questions: Will the first revs of the 970 have:
-single or dual cores?
-symmetric multi-threading?
-any other fancy pants chip features?
And how soon will .09 micron revs of the 970 be available?
Blark
Originally posted by johnpg
Let me know if you have any ideas on questions I should ask tomorrow.
Cheers,
John
Does the 970 use Hypertransport or RapidIO?
One suggestion for you: Be careful you don't get yourself fired for disclosing information that may be confidential.
Originally posted by johnpg
He also said that the Gamecube will be using the 970.
Yea i don't really get this, is he implying that they are gonna change chips in the gamecube? what would be the point, wouldnt that be more expensive for nintendo to put a brand new chip in? usually they work to make them cheaper to produce as years go by. Or did he mean nintendos next console or something
Originally posted by Blark
Other questions: Will the first revs of the 970 have:
-single or dual cores?
-symmetric multi-threading?
970 is a single core chip that is fully SMP capable. There are rumours that the 980 will be dual core.
Originally posted by Ti Fighter
Yea i don't really get this, is he implying that they are gonna change chips in the gamecube? what would be the point, wouldnt that be more expensive for nintendo to put a brand new chip in? usually they work to make them cheaper to produce as years go by. Or did he mean nintendos next console or something
The follow-up to the GameCube. GameCube2 or whatever they decide to call it.
Originally posted by johnpg
Let me know if you have any ideas on questions I should ask tomorrow.
Cheers,
John
Well, aside from the obvious "Watchu' talkin' 'bout, Willis?" in regards to gamecube, PowerBook usage, etc., try asking him things he might actually know and be able to pin down. Ship date of PPC 970 blades, for instance. Config of same (what memory used, etc.)
That and any IBM 64-bitness plans he might be able to give hard facts on.
I also have doubts that Moto is going to fab the 970s. If it's true, it's a big surprise. I could see it happening if Apple requires that they get shitloads of chips ready in a short period of time. Maybe they are doing that, but I'm under the impression that Moto was getting booted out the door as soon as possible.
Edit - this guy is nuts. Moto isn't fabbing anything relating to IBM anymore, and if they are it wouldn't involve Apple. IBM wouldn't fab their new king-of-the-hill low-end 64-bit chip at anything less than a first-rate facility, and since outsourcing is a major pain anyway East Fishkill is the only available option.
Moral of the story - just because somebody works for the government doesn't mean he knows the Iraq war plans. Just because somebody works for IBM doesn't mean he knows a PowerPC from an Itanic.
What I might try also is seeing if I can contact the fellow who did the first presentation. He absolutely knew what was going on with the 970.
John
An IBM over dressed under informed sales drone... I'm not saying that in a bad way but just as a way to explain things.
Some points...
I think his 'July' forecast for a 970 based blade is being just a tad optimistic. I have sources too and they aren't trying to sell me anything the date I heard is one I have more faith in.
The 'low power' comments... portable comments.
Well if this guy is one who usually deals with Power4 type boxes then yea, even a FULL SPEED (full power) version of the 970 would be looked at as a 'low power' CPU and thus his thought it would go into a portable.
The fact is IBM will have a full power 970 and a low power 970 one will be used in desktop boxes and the other (we hope) will fit into a laptop. Will the 970 be available in both forms right off the bat or with the 'low power' verison wait till the 90nm process... That I dunno but then again I'd bet the rep doesn't know either.
The 970 in the game cube?!?! I guess it could be true but it doesn't sound right.. well it does sound right for this year or next... maybe when the 980 hits I could see it (read as: the 970 price goes way down).
I dunno this guy doesn't seem to be the guy to go to for 'hard core' answers... He doesn't seem to informed.
Dave
Originally posted by Programmer
I wouldn't believe this guy any farther than I could throw him.
IBM has been shifting to a large amount of foundry work of late. That means that they are fabbing other's designs. It don't make no sense that they would then out-source their own (very important) design.
I also echo the statement that this guy probably just doesn't know. I have a friend that works intimately on POWER projects, but I know more than him about the applications that POWER chips go into, just from publically available info. He just is too focused on a specific aspect of the projects.
Sales/Marketing folks can be even further removed from the realities of the products.
But thanks for the info anyway John!
Really.
Originally posted by DaveGee
I think what we have here is as follows....
An IBM over dressed under informed sales drone... I'm not saying that in a bad way but just as a way to explain things.
--snip--
The 970 in the game cube?!?! I guess it could be true but it doesn't sound right.. well it does sound right for this year or next... maybe when the 980 hits I could see it (read as: the 970 price goes way down).
I dunno this guy doesn't seem to be the guy to go to for 'hard core' answers... He doesn't seem to informed.
Dave
The "IBM over dressed under informed sales drone..." is referred to as a Project Coordinator . . . at least in the inner IBM Circles. They usually aren't very technical, and are prone to "crossing their 'i's and dotting the 't's", if you catch my drift. They'll promise the world and then throw $$ and manpower to make it happen.
I think the guy crossed his facts and presented fiction. The July release data for the chip is workable, the blades . . . I dunno. The powerbook info . . . not until the desktop version is released (but that's my "uncommon sense" screamming at me).
GameCube, I bet he confused the 980, just like Dave thinks, and I agree . . . this new rep is not a "go to" person.
Originally posted by DaveGee
An IBM over dressed under informed sales drone... I'm not saying that in a bad way but just as a way to explain things.
Originally posted by MacJedai
The "IBM over dressed under informed sales drone..." is referred to as a Project Coordinator . . . at least in the inner IBM Circles. They usually aren't very technical, and are prone to "crossing their 'i's and dotting the 't's", if you catch my drift. They'll promise the world and then throw $$ and manpower to make it happen.
Was in a phone conversation with an IBM bud the other day (he might even be on this board, so Hello if you're listening ...) and he pretty much vehemently confirms your hypothesis ... which seems to amount to a corporate version of:
"Say anything to get 'em into bed, and let them worry about the post-facto excuses ..."
"People"-people, geez, why is it that so many would rather be smiled at then told the truth?
Ahhh ... the working definition for the non-technical...
"Did I ever tell you how especially beautiful you looked when you signed our 5 year support contract? ..."