abriden

bb-15 said:

abriden said:

To those who have so far defended Apple's tax avoidance and blame the laws rather than those abusing them, it is by no means certain that Apple have operated legally at all — by all accounts the arrangement with the Irish government was illegal and the subject of an EU investigation. Secrecy is the reason these tax avoidance schemes have thus far been allowed to happen unchallenged, but hopefully the so-called Paradise Papers will prompt reforms (though I won't hold my breath).

There is a reason why private and public companies have to publish their accounts for transparency — hiding the money in countries with greater secrecy does not make it legal.

You are misinformed. 
1. The tax situation in Ireland was not secret. It is based on the double Irish arrangement which has been in effect since the late 1980s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

2. The tax arrangement between Ireland and Apple was legal in Ireland. Why? Because Ireland is a sovereign nation which can pass its own laws which are enforced by its government.
- And again this arrangement has been known for decades.

3. The EU does not strip the Irish government of all its power. Ireland is appealing the actions of the EU in this situation.
Ireland believes that the tax situation with Apple is appropriate.

4. You imply that Apple does nothing to contribute to the funding of services in Ireland. That is false.
- Apple employs 4,000 workers in Cork (6,000 total in the country). The income of those workers helps the Irish economy which in turn helps to fund services. 
- Apple's profits in Ireland are taxed at the rate of 12.5% in an agreement with the Irish government. Besides being legal, 12.5% is not 0%.
The tax money from Apple in Ireland helps the Irish economy and therefore services in Ireland.
- Apple pays lots of taxes around the world. Probably more taxes than any other company. All of that money helps to fund services.  

5. Finally, the money that Apple is holding outside of the US has to do with US taxes. Apple wants a lower US tax rate before paying US taxes on that money. This money from the view of the US and Apple, is not about taxes that should go to the EU. 

These so-called tax avoidance schemes are NOT necessarily legal…

Tax avoidance is legal. Tax evasion is not.

tallest skil said:

abriden said:

Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation.

Let me offer you my definition of “social justice”: I keep what I earn and you keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well, then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you and why. I’ll wait.

The legalities may be contentious

So fix the law. That’s all that matters here.

Apple are not paying enough tax

You have absolutely no right or ability to say that.

so they do not have the moral high-ground here

“Paying more tax” ≠ moral. Holy fucking shit.

think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.

You have no idea where taxes go or why. You have no idea how the global economy works and what is responsible for the complete destruction of the value of a dollar. This is why you are a communist.

xbit said:

Yes, we do. The last European elections were held in 2014.

Yes, apologies; I didn’t want to drag things too far off the topic. You don’t vote for your representation or your laws. The European Commission is unelected and unmonitored, making all the laws. The Parliament simply votes on the laws (if you can call blind acceptance ‘voting’). You do vote for the Parliament.

abriden said:

unspecified fees that are completely unsubstantiated.

This is what modern taxes are. How about you stop whining about wealth redistribution (marxism) and campaign for taxation equality and economic reorganization instead? You know, something that would actually fix the problems you have.

foregoneconclusion said:

Look at China. They didn't tax cut their way to growth.

Correct; genocide isn’t taxation.

 They committed gigantic amounts of money to infrastructure spending for multiple decades.

And when that motherfucker of a bubble comes crashing down (just like the ghost cities and their buildings made of sand, garbage, and styrofoam made during this bubble), every surviving nation will pass a law that prevents such a thing from ever being implemented again under penalty of death. If your goal is a short period of unsustainable success, laud China!

Infrastructure spending delivers far more bang for the buck than tax cuts.

Is this statement based on your understanding of, say, the New Deal, or of some other event somewhere else that actually gives evidence to that point?

abriden said:

I’m not a socialist. …there’s no end to the potential good that could be done if everyone paid tax on the basis of moral obligation…

Ah, enforcing, at gunpoint, your own brand of morality–based on moral relativism–for the purpose of funding a government. Socialism, in other words. Heteronomous culture.

Blunt said:

Apple, Google and other compagnies need to step up. In the Netherlands for example Google made a construction which allowed them to pay millions of dollars less with no benifit for our country at all. Apple is using similar methods which is a shame.

Yeah, it sure is Apple’s fault that THE NETHERLANDS has a law which allows someone to do something. Fuck’s sake…

mike1 said:

abriden said:

Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation. The legalities may be contentious, but damn it, the ethics that Apple and other global companies, super-rich individuals and organised crime (what great bedfellows) use are beneath contempt.

Bshank ...suggesting that Apple should cut and run is missing the point. Firstly, Apple are not paying enough tax so they do not have the moral high-ground here, even over the rightly despised EU; Secondly, you clearly have no idea of what the EU market is worth to Apple. 

For those who defend the likes of Apple, think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.

So, you're a socialist arguing for yet more government employees paid for by taxpayers.