That's the problem. Too many of us don't need a toy. We need something that expands, or ad's on to the possibilities of what is already available to us.
That's why I wouldn't choose to buy just a Laptop, or, just a plain single input tablet. But if the two were combined the combination offers more than just one or the other.
The problem is, that makes them big, fat, heavy, and $$$expensive compared to a more focused product.
I'm typing this on an (ugh!) HP 17" laptop that weighs a ton, is thicker than a brick, and has a 1.5 hr battery life.
That's not a thin light machine to surf the web with.
iPods were "just expensive MP3 players" but totally revolutionized the market. Hopefully Apple can do the same for UMPC/Origamis.
Beautiful, as long as it goes portrait easily, and has a hole to stash the pen in...or is that a chance for Steve to use that newfangled magnet technology that gives him such a stiffy.
Superb and I would buy one straight away. I think the pen would be kept via a magnetic connection.
Me, too. Which is why this device is not a desktop or notebook replacement. It's an accessory for browsing & viewing, with only occasional data entry (or hook up a wireless keyboard at your desk or something).
Keep it thin, light, simple, and inexpensive for "on the go". Just like an iPod is an on-the-go version of iTunes.
Me, too. Which is why this device is not a desktop or notebook replacement. It's an accessory for browsing & viewing, with only occasional data entry (or hook up a wireless keyboard at your desk or something).
Keep it thin, light, simple, and inexpensive for "on the go". Just like an iPod is an on-the-go version of iTunes.
$2499 isn't exactly inexpensive, but sign me up for it anyway. Just please be sure that the handwriting is fantastic. One core dedicated to that should be able to handle adaptive handwriting recognition, eh?
$2499 isn't exactly inexpensive, but sign me up for it anyway. Just please be sure that the handwriting is fantastic. One core dedicated to that should be able to handle adaptive handwriting recognition, eh?
Ouch. I wasn't thinking $2499. More like <$1000.
MacRonin has sort of the right idea with his specs, but I'd guess 512 MB or 1 GB of RAM. Maybe iPhoto, but you wouldn't want to use iMovie or iDVD on this little thing.
2. relatively cheap (that's why I proposed the MacBook line) with cost prioritized over keyboard, optical disc, and speed.
3. near the dimensions of an 8*11 sheet of paper so it can effectively replace paper
Then some extremely speculative stuff...
1.Provide accessories that turn it into a convertable notebook OR maybe even allow two of them to hook together to be a dual screen, book style tablet
2. Ability to function as second display or waccom tablet for Powermac.
3. Integrated scanning screen so you can put a piece of paper on the display and turn it into an editable PDF (see rumored apple patent)
Drool.
Nordstrodamus, I love the features that you have mentioned. The standard pointing device on my Mac is a Wacom tablet with either the pen or 3-button mouse. I'd love to be editing an image underneath the stylus rather than on a dislocated screen.
I have followed the imaging screen too. If each imaging element transcribed a single pixel, even with sub-pixel interpolation I think that the resolution might be too low for general scanning but for text input, perhaps it might work well. Of course, if the imaging elements were actually multi-pixel in their own right, overlain by a grown or deposited lens, now, that would be interesting!
I have followed the imaging screen too. If each imaging element transcribed a single pixel, even with sub-pixel interpolation I think that the resolution might be too low for general scanning but for text input, perhaps it might work well. Of course, if the imaging elements were actually multi-pixel in their own right, overlain by a grown or deposited lens, now, that would be interesting!
Yeah, I thought that might be pushing it and it actually undercuts the goal of keeping it as cheap as possible. Although the imgaing screen could double as a touch sensor (by looking for the presence of an incoming pen) so maybe there is some economy, but I doubt it.
Me, too. Which is why this device is not a desktop or notebook replacement. It's an accessory for browsing & viewing, with only occasional data entry (or hook up a wireless keyboard at your desk or something).
Keep it thin, light, simple, and inexpensive for "on the go". Just like an iPod is an on-the-go version of iTunes.
Well then it's just a waste of $2.000+
Without a convertible keyboard it's useless to 99% of us at that price.
Without a convertible keyboard it's useless to 99% of us at that price.
See, now here's another reason there is no tablet yet. (Sorry onlooker, I'm latching onto your post here ).
For all those in favor of a tablet:
What is the ideal size?
How much power does it need? (CPU/GPU/memory)
Keyboard attached or no?
Rotational media or flash?
etc...
These are honest questions. Rather than dispute the need or usefulness of a tablet (this time ), I'd rather know what everyone's expectation of the mythical Apple tablet would be. I know I've seen a few somewhat detailed descriptions in some of the numerous threads on this topic.
Even within the group that really does want and sees a need for a tablet there is some dispute as to what it should be. Now look at what Apple needs to deal with.
- There are those that seem to want the PDA on steroids.
- There are those that want a laptop with touchscreen (much like is offered by PC tablets now).
- There are those that likely want something even different.
Which group does Apple satisfy? This isn't as simple as just Apple building a single product. There seems no unified vision that will be satisfied by that strategy.
I can imagine that there'd be enough difference of opinion to divide the tablet camp into a few segments but which one would be the best move for Apple? I'm not sure to be honest. I think they can afford to wait a bit and put more thought into it (and I'm sure they are).
It's not like there's a booming tablet market that they'll need to fight their way into. When they decide to enter, I'm sure like I've mentioned on other occasions, the hardware is and has been there for a while. It's most likely software and apps (that actually work better on a tablet than a laptop) holding back any widespread adoption (yeah, my opinion and I'm sure there's a bunch of people who'd buy it just because it was aan Apple tablet).
I think a new newton sized PDA "*type thing", and a convertible tablet would be the best possible solution. (**The newton PDA is mostly because obviously some people just can get over the fact that the PDA is dead so they want to take control of the tablet). Here is why. If Apple has a media center, both the Newton PDA *TT, and the tablet should be able do what they do on their own on the go, and interact intuitively with the media center when they get home; but not everybody can afford a media center and the tablet. The PDA would be a more affordable experience enhancing option. The Tablet would obviously be the ultimate experience. (with both the PDA, or the tablet you should be able to use their screens to program the DVR without interrupting what the family is currently watching)
The Media Center should be the digital hub between your computer, TV, and stereo. With Wifi, you should be able to access your computer through your hub, or airport antenna with either of them. The media center should have a iPod base station, or inputs to put them there, and it should, or could double as an AirPort Express Base Station with AirTunes so you can update your iPod from your living room through your wifi, and access your music store account from your digital hub in your living room on your TV if you wish. And run that music through your home stereo from AIrTunes.
Use your included remote, your Newton, or your Tablet to control your stereo, and access many things on your computer from anywhere in your home. LIke address book, etc, etc... The convertible tablet would be better of course because you would have keyboard in your hands as well if you needed it, and you could work from anywhere, and then some, but I'd still like to have good graphics options on the tablet so I'd be able to sketch a model on my couch while they are watching TV, and I can take it straight from sketch to paint in painter. The same goes for ZBrush. And If kids are getting them for school they would probably like to be able to run Half life 2 under bootcamp when they are not in class. You cant do that very well without a keyboard. They will probably want to use it as an all around machine in school, or for work.
I personally still need the keyboard, and it has to be attached. Who wants to lug another part around? That is just stupid.
**If apple did a newly designed newton it would probably be the hottest thing on the market. before prople figured out that 99% of people don't really need a PDA, but doubling as a media center remote link, and a wireless phone ear piece it could actually be one trick unit. The problem is that if you do that your better off designing a phone with nokia, and loose the screen. Nokia already does the universal remote from their phones in europe. They can even start your car, and open your garage door.
- There are those that seem to want the PDA on steroids.
- There are those that want a laptop with touchscreen (much like is offered by PC tablets now).
- There are those that likely want something even different.
Which group does Apple satisfy? This isn't as simple as just Apple building a single product. There seems no unified vision that will be satisfied by that strategy.
Yeah, there definitely seem to be (at least) two camps here. Those that want the superPDA/iPod/VideoPod and those that want a laptop with a touchscreen.
I think the Windows market has clearly shown that people aren't willing to spend extra for a laptop with a touchscreen (i.e., a Windows Tablet). You end up with a big, bulky, expensive laptop that can also (awkwardly) be used as a tablet. Apple might be able to reinvent this market the same way they reinvented the MP3 player market, but I'm not sure how.
OTOH, PDAs died because you just can't do very much with them. Many things that you'd want to do with them today--in the age of cheap & freely available wireless netorking--require a much larger screen than any PDA had. Things like browsing the web at a reasonable size (800x600 or larger), watch videos, do e-mail, use iTunes and iPhoto, etc.
For all I know, Apple might transmogrify (thanks, Calvin & Hobbes!) the iPod line into a full-fledged touchscreen device. Maybe that'll be the first step (no OS X at this point), and then version 2 or 3 of that device will be an Intel-based device with full (or almost full) OS X on it.
So maybe everyone will be satisfied. The superPDA will come from the iPod division; the tabletMac will come from the Mac division. 8)
... There seems no unified vision that will be satisfied by that strategy.
It's not like there's a booming tablet market that they'll need to fight their way into...
I think much of what you said could have been said about the original ipod. In the end they did the most minimal thing they could for making a large amount of music mobile.
And there are some firm guidelines on what to make, although they are all conditional statements...
1. No keyboard IF it makes it substantially cheaper and lighter OR Apple can make an attachable keyboard that isn't cumbersome.
2. Large screen IF apple markets it to be the replacement for pen and paper AND want's it to run regular OS X.
3. Small screen IF it is meant to be like a PDA AND apple wants to compete with its own iPod line AND run a Newton like OS
I'd never buy a tablet, my handwriting in english is too terrible.
Tablets also usually cost more and are more likely to break the screen when you drop them. Oh, not to mention the smudges on the screen from my hands that spit sweat when I'm writing at break-neck speeds.
I learned to type 120 words a minute so people wouldn't be subjected to my penmanship. Now, if it's not within reason, the tablet wont know what the heck I'm trying to say.
As for "throwing the pen away".. how are you supposed to input data? a keyboard? Envision the a hard drive, battery, screen, mobo, processor, etc at an incline.. now, before it falls, connect a keyboard.. I donno what physics class you took, but that keyboard better weigh 8 pounds so the thing doesn't fall over!
Comments
Originally posted by onlooker
That's the problem. Too many of us don't need a toy. We need something that expands, or ad's on to the possibilities of what is already available to us.
That's why I wouldn't choose to buy just a Laptop, or, just a plain single input tablet. But if the two were combined the combination offers more than just one or the other.
The problem is, that makes them big, fat, heavy, and $$$expensive compared to a more focused product.
I'm typing this on an (ugh!) HP 17" laptop that weighs a ton, is thicker than a brick, and has a 1.5 hr battery life.
That's not a thin light machine to surf the web with.
iPods were "just expensive MP3 players" but totally revolutionized the market. Hopefully Apple can do the same for UMPC/Origamis.
8" widescreen multi-touch LCD
1.06GHz ULV Core Duo CPU w/2MB shared cache
533MHz FSB
512MB NAND flash memory
2GB DDR2 SDRAM (two SO-DIMM slots)
32GB 1.8" FlashRAM HDD
Intel GMA950 integrated GPU
WUSB (wireless USB)
AirPort Extreme
BlueTooth
Quad band cell capabilities
Pivoting iSight camera
stereo BlueTooth headset w/microphone
Stylus
Mac OS X 10.5
iLife '06
iWork '06
About the size of a DVD case (which is really close to a 16:10 ratio) and half again as thick...
[/deadhorse mode]
Would be a SWEET geek item, that's for sure?
;^p
Originally posted by bikertwin
The problem is, that makes them big, fat, heavy, and $$$expensive compared to a more focused product.
Actually that was the problem. Things are much smaller, cooler, and faster today.
Have you ever seen a titanium PowerBook? They could fit it in that space today.
Originally posted by netdog
Beautiful, as long as it goes portrait easily, and has a hole to stash the pen in...or is that a chance for Steve to use that newfangled magnet technology that gives him such a stiffy.
Superb and I would buy one straight away. I think the pen would be kept via a magnetic connection.
Originally posted by sucralose
i type much much faster than I write.....
I can't write, I can only draw.
So every word I have to write is a piece of art and takes at least a minute to complete.
Originally posted by sucralose
i type much much faster than I write.....
Me, too. Which is why this device is not a desktop or notebook replacement. It's an accessory for browsing & viewing, with only occasional data entry (or hook up a wireless keyboard at your desk or something).
Keep it thin, light, simple, and inexpensive for "on the go". Just like an iPod is an on-the-go version of iTunes.
Originally posted by bikertwin
Me, too. Which is why this device is not a desktop or notebook replacement. It's an accessory for browsing & viewing, with only occasional data entry (or hook up a wireless keyboard at your desk or something).
Keep it thin, light, simple, and inexpensive for "on the go". Just like an iPod is an on-the-go version of iTunes.
$2499 isn't exactly inexpensive, but sign me up for it anyway. Just please be sure that the handwriting is fantastic. One core dedicated to that should be able to handle adaptive handwriting recognition, eh?
Originally posted by netdog
$2499 isn't exactly inexpensive, but sign me up for it anyway. Just please be sure that the handwriting is fantastic. One core dedicated to that should be able to handle adaptive handwriting recognition, eh?
Ouch. I wasn't thinking $2499. More like <$1000.
MacRonin has sort of the right idea with his specs, but I'd guess 512 MB or 1 GB of RAM. Maybe iPhoto, but you wouldn't want to use iMovie or iDVD on this little thing.
IMO, the screen must have/be...
1. long battery life
2. relatively cheap (that's why I proposed the MacBook line) with cost prioritized over keyboard, optical disc, and speed.
3. near the dimensions of an 8*11 sheet of paper so it can effectively replace paper
Then some extremely speculative stuff...
1.Provide accessories that turn it into a convertable notebook OR maybe even allow two of them to hook together to be a dual screen, book style tablet
2. Ability to function as second display or waccom tablet for Powermac.
3. Integrated scanning screen so you can put a piece of paper on the display and turn it into an editable PDF (see rumored apple patent)
Drool.
Originally posted by Nordstrodamus
First, some sensible stuff-
IMO, the screen must have/be...
1. long battery life
2. relatively cheap (that's why I proposed the MacBook line) with cost prioritized over keyboard, optical disc, and speed.
3. near the dimensions of an 8*11 sheet of paper so it can effectively replace paper
Then some extremely speculative stuff...
1.Provide accessories that turn it into a convertable notebook OR maybe even allow two of them to hook together to be a dual screen, book style tablet
2. Ability to function as second display or waccom tablet for Powermac.
3. Integrated scanning screen so you can put a piece of paper on the display and turn it into an editable PDF (see rumored apple patent)
Drool.
Nordstrodamus, I love the features that you have mentioned. The standard pointing device on my Mac is a Wacom tablet with either the pen or 3-button mouse. I'd love to be editing an image underneath the stylus rather than on a dislocated screen.
I have followed the imaging screen too. If each imaging element transcribed a single pixel, even with sub-pixel interpolation I think that the resolution might be too low for general scanning but for text input, perhaps it might work well. Of course, if the imaging elements were actually multi-pixel in their own right, overlain by a grown or deposited lens, now, that would be interesting!
Originally posted by Nordstrodamus
First, some sensible stuff-
IMO, the screen must have/be...
1. long battery life
2. relatively cheap (that's why I proposed the MacBook line) with cost prioritized over keyboard, optical disc, and speed.
3. near the dimensions of an 8*11 sheet of paper so it can effectively replace paper
Then some extremely speculative stuff...
1.Provide accessories that turn it into a convertable notebook OR maybe even allow two of them to hook together to be a dual screen, book style tablet
2. Ability to function as second display or waccom tablet for Powermac.
3. Integrated scanning screen so you can put a piece of paper on the display and turn it into an editable PDF (see rumored apple patent)
Drool.
more drool
Originally posted by IQatEdo
I have followed the imaging screen too. If each imaging element transcribed a single pixel, even with sub-pixel interpolation I think that the resolution might be too low for general scanning but for text input, perhaps it might work well. Of course, if the imaging elements were actually multi-pixel in their own right, overlain by a grown or deposited lens, now, that would be interesting!
Yeah, I thought that might be pushing it and it actually undercuts the goal of keeping it as cheap as possible. Although the imgaing screen could double as a touch sensor (by looking for the presence of an incoming pen) so maybe there is some economy, but I doubt it.
Originally posted by bikertwin
Me, too. Which is why this device is not a desktop or notebook replacement. It's an accessory for browsing & viewing, with only occasional data entry (or hook up a wireless keyboard at your desk or something).
Keep it thin, light, simple, and inexpensive for "on the go". Just like an iPod is an on-the-go version of iTunes.
Well then it's just a waste of $2.000+
Without a convertible keyboard it's useless to 99% of us at that price.
Originally posted by onlooker
Well then it's just a waste of $2.000+
Without a convertible keyboard it's useless to 99% of us at that price.
See, now here's another reason there is no tablet yet. (Sorry onlooker, I'm latching onto your post here
For all those in favor of a tablet:
What is the ideal size?
How much power does it need? (CPU/GPU/memory)
Keyboard attached or no?
Rotational media or flash?
etc...
These are honest questions. Rather than dispute the need or usefulness of a tablet (this time
Even within the group that really does want and sees a need for a tablet there is some dispute as to what it should be. Now look at what Apple needs to deal with.
- There are those that seem to want the PDA on steroids.
- There are those that want a laptop with touchscreen (much like is offered by PC tablets now).
- There are those that likely want something even different.
Which group does Apple satisfy? This isn't as simple as just Apple building a single product. There seems no unified vision that will be satisfied by that strategy.
I can imagine that there'd be enough difference of opinion to divide the tablet camp into a few segments but which one would be the best move for Apple? I'm not sure to be honest. I think they can afford to wait a bit and put more thought into it (and I'm sure they are).
It's not like there's a booming tablet market that they'll need to fight their way into. When they decide to enter, I'm sure like I've mentioned on other occasions, the hardware is and has been there for a while. It's most likely software and apps (that actually work better on a tablet than a laptop) holding back any widespread adoption (yeah, my opinion and I'm sure there's a bunch of people who'd buy it just because it was aan Apple tablet).
The Media Center should be the digital hub between your computer, TV, and stereo. With Wifi, you should be able to access your computer through your hub, or airport antenna with either of them. The media center should have a iPod base station, or inputs to put them there, and it should, or could double as an AirPort Express Base Station with AirTunes so you can update your iPod from your living room through your wifi, and access your music store account from your digital hub in your living room on your TV if you wish. And run that music through your home stereo from AIrTunes.
Use your included remote, your Newton, or your Tablet to control your stereo, and access many things on your computer from anywhere in your home. LIke address book, etc, etc... The convertible tablet would be better of course because you would have keyboard in your hands as well if you needed it, and you could work from anywhere, and then some, but I'd still like to have good graphics options on the tablet so I'd be able to sketch a model on my couch while they are watching TV, and I can take it straight from sketch to paint in painter. The same goes for ZBrush. And If kids are getting them for school they would probably like to be able to run Half life 2 under bootcamp when they are not in class. You cant do that very well without a keyboard. They will probably want to use it as an all around machine in school, or for work.
I personally still need the keyboard, and it has to be attached. Who wants to lug another part around? That is just stupid.
**If apple did a newly designed newton it would probably be the hottest thing on the market. before prople figured out that 99% of people don't really need a PDA, but doubling as a media center remote link, and a wireless phone ear piece it could actually be one trick unit. The problem is that if you do that your better off designing a phone with nokia, and loose the screen. Nokia already does the universal remote from their phones in europe. They can even start your car, and open your garage door.
Originally posted by Bancho
For all those in favor of a tablet:
What is the ideal size?
How much power does it need? (CPU/GPU/memory)
Keyboard attached or no?
Rotational media or flash?
etc...
- There are those that seem to want the PDA on steroids.
- There are those that want a laptop with touchscreen (much like is offered by PC tablets now).
- There are those that likely want something even different.
Which group does Apple satisfy? This isn't as simple as just Apple building a single product. There seems no unified vision that will be satisfied by that strategy.
Yeah, there definitely seem to be (at least) two camps here. Those that want the superPDA/iPod/VideoPod and those that want a laptop with a touchscreen.
I think the Windows market has clearly shown that people aren't willing to spend extra for a laptop with a touchscreen (i.e., a Windows Tablet). You end up with a big, bulky, expensive laptop that can also (awkwardly) be used as a tablet. Apple might be able to reinvent this market the same way they reinvented the MP3 player market, but I'm not sure how.
OTOH, PDAs died because you just can't do very much with them. Many things that you'd want to do with them today--in the age of cheap & freely available wireless netorking--require a much larger screen than any PDA had. Things like browsing the web at a reasonable size (800x600 or larger), watch videos, do e-mail, use iTunes and iPhoto, etc.
For all I know, Apple might transmogrify (thanks, Calvin & Hobbes!) the iPod line into a full-fledged touchscreen device. Maybe that'll be the first step (no OS X at this point), and then version 2 or 3 of that device will be an Intel-based device with full (or almost full) OS X on it.
So maybe everyone will be satisfied. The superPDA will come from the iPod division; the tabletMac will come from the Mac division. 8)
Originally posted by Bancho
... There seems no unified vision that will be satisfied by that strategy.
It's not like there's a booming tablet market that they'll need to fight their way into...
I think much of what you said could have been said about the original ipod. In the end they did the most minimal thing they could for making a large amount of music mobile.
And there are some firm guidelines on what to make, although they are all conditional statements...
1. No keyboard IF it makes it substantially cheaper and lighter OR Apple can make an attachable keyboard that isn't cumbersome.
2. Large screen IF apple markets it to be the replacement for pen and paper AND want's it to run regular OS X.
3. Small screen IF it is meant to be like a PDA AND apple wants to compete with its own iPod line AND run a Newton like OS
Seem's kinda obvious to me
Would these people seriously just throw away their existing Macs if they suddenly, magically acquired the ability to get input from the screen?
Just buy the Macbooks and throw the pens away if you feel that strongly about it. Geeesh...
Tablets also usually cost more and are more likely to break the screen when you drop them. Oh, not to mention the smudges on the screen from my hands that spit sweat when I'm writing at break-neck speeds.
I learned to type 120 words a minute so people wouldn't be subjected to my penmanship. Now, if it's not within reason, the tablet wont know what the heck I'm trying to say.
As for "throwing the pen away".. how are you supposed to input data? a keyboard? Envision the a hard drive, battery, screen, mobo, processor, etc at an incline.. now, before it falls, connect a keyboard.. I donno what physics class you took, but that keyboard better weigh 8 pounds so the thing doesn't fall over!