Apple and Circuit City to make a second go at Mac sales

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ApplePi


    I bought my first iMac at a Circuit City and would love to seem them return. I live in the Metro Detroit area on the east side where no computer stores seem to really exist short of a computer builders warehouse that's really really small. One needs to drive to the wealthier Oakland County to get a Microcenter or a CompUSA (which both have mac sections) which for me is a 45 minute drive through traffic. Whereas the Circuit City and Best Buy are only 5 minutes away. The Apple store is also over on that side of town in a fancy upscale mall (read: rich people mall). So I gladly welcome a closer place to buy a mac or at least window shop for one, even if the sales people don't have an f-ing clue, who really listens to them anyway?



    Well in your case this is definitely an acceptable solution, just as long as you don't buy any extended warranty unless it covers the screen if you drop it and crack the LCD. I am religious on buying Apple Care though.



    Does Circuit City have a display for Apple computers? Out of the box so you can see exactly what you are getting?
  • Reply 42 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by preston2o3


    Does Circuit City have a display for Apple computers? Out of the box so you can see exactly what you are getting?



    They used to yeah. It wasn't anything fancy like the mac sections at Microcenter or CompUSA. They were just some iMac's and IBooks sitting next to other PC's on display. But if you ask me that's the best way to go about it. I think sometimes putting Mac's into their own little second in the back of the store makes alot of people avoid that section altogether.



    I should also note that until recently the Best Buy near me was selling Mac Minis, but only the mini's and they must not have sold very well. I never saw anyone looking at them or rather it. I'm pretty sure it's gone now. I think it would have helped if it would have had some iMacs and Mac Books sitting next to it.
  • Reply 43 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ApplePi


    They used to yeah. It wasn't anything fancy like the mac sections at Microcenter or CompUSA. They were just some iMac's and IBooks sitting next to other PC's on display. But if you ask me that's the best way to go about it. I think sometimes putting Mac's into their own little second in the back of the store makes alot of people avoid that section altogether.



    I should also note that until recently the Best Buy near me was selling Mac Minis, but only the mini's and they must not have sold very well. I never saw anyone looking at them or rather it. I'm pretty sure it's gone now. I think it would have helped if it would have had some iMacs and Mac Books sitting next to it.





    Well we will see if Circuit City will succeed. Hope they do well so we can take over the world!
  • Reply 44 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    Melgross,



    Agree with most of your points especially about the future being with Apple stores. I don't live very close to one myself, but whenever I visit a city that has one I generally stop by. The stores are unique and offer a special experience not offered in many other specialty retailers. The stores are stylish and well thought out. All of Apple's products are there for a test drive. I've personally found the staffs to be helpful, although I recognize that probably varies quite a bit from store to store.



    Having said that I've serious misgivings about CC selling Apple computers. iPods are probably ok but often when I visit CC the service is poor and the sales 'advice' (I use this term loosly here) seems slanted. I worry that Apple will be poorly represented and this has been the history in the past. As I mentioned earlier, if ot didn't work out at CompUSA why will it work out here. The added exposure may help but that argument could have been made in the past as well and yet Apple felt it necessary to pull their products at CC. Count me as a skeptic on this one.



    I don't agree with the skepticism. Again, you are looking at the past, not the present. CompUsa does sell a lot of Macs.



    The truth is that the salespeople at the stores we are talking about treat ALL computer manufacturers badly. I don't care if Apple is treated that way either. People now know Apple, and that is what matters. It will make a big difference.



    I also agree with those who say that each store could add $400 million to Apple's bottom line each year. That's not small change, and almost all of it will be from customers who wouldn't otherwise have bought a Mac.



    People talk about the poor experience they have at these stores, but they go back and buy products their anyway. I think that most people are smart enough to distinguish between the retailer, and the manufacturer, when they have heard of the company, and their product line.



    I'm not worried about this at all. Nothing bad can come of it, and Apple needs the distribution, because they will never be able to do it themselves.
  • Reply 45 of 62
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    I don't agree with the skepticism. Again, you are looking at the past, not the present. CompUsa does sell a lot of Macs.



    The truth is that the salespeople at the stores we are talking about treat ALL computer manufacturers badly. I don't care if Apple is treated that way either. People now know Apple, and that is what matters. It will make a big difference.



    I also agree with those who say that each store could add $400 million to Apple's bottom line each year. That's not small change, and almost all of it will be from customers who wouldn't otherwise have bought a Mac.



    People talk about the poor experience they have at these stores, but they go back and buy products their anyway. I think that most people are smart enough to distinguish between the retailer, and the manufacturer, when they have heard of the company, and their product line.



    I'm not worried about this at all. Nothing bad can come of it, and Apple needs the distribution, because they will never be able to do it themselves.



    The problem I see Mel is when a buyer is undecided on platform and goes in to CC to buy a new computer. How will they be treated? My guess is that the 'knowlegdable' sales staff will steer them towards a pc and a potential sale is lost. People that know what they want aren't likely to be affected but those who have an open mind will get slanted advice.
  • Reply 46 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    The problem I see Mel is when a buyer is undecided on platform and goes in to CC to buy a new computer. How will they be treated? My guess is that the 'knowlegdable' sales staff will steer them towards a pc and a potential sale is lost. People that know what they want aren't likely to be affected but those who have an open mind will get slanted advice.



    Exactly.



    First -- Salespeople sell what gives them the biggest return. PC's are generally less expensive than Macs, spec for spec. I recently bought my son a "cheap" gaming machine -- and HP Media Center for $1300. Came with 2GB RAM, 300GB HD, 128MB video (somehow shared, but supports HL2 -- the whole reason for the purchase), TV tuner/PDR, second monitor port for mirroring or extended desktop, RCA video out, Firewire/USB/Card Reader built in on front, wireless keyboard and mouse, remote, seemingly endless cables and boxes, instructions, crappy installed software, spyware pre-installed, downloading of updates, drivers, blue screens, frustrations, blackmailed into purchasing anti-virus (still got a virus that went undetected for three weeks)...



    Second -- Salespeople sell what they know, are comforatable/familiar with. Statistically speaking, they are less likely to know as much about Macs as they do about PCs -- regardless of how much training Apple gives them during.



    Third -- Salespeople sell what they have on-hand to sell -- and buyers want instant gratification. Go to MC right after Apple releases new systems or iPods -- you will see utter frustration. Across the street, the Apple store has a literal wall of systems or iPod stacked floor to ceiling and people lining up to buy them. MC salespeople are left empty-handed having to try to talk people into checking back with them in a week when their next small shipment will arrive. Given the opportunity, a good salesperson will cross-sell to the next available product. Suddenly, that eMachine or Compaq (of which there are 40 units sitting in back) becomes the greatest system on the planet and the savings on system will let the buyer afford the extended service plan. THAT is sales. THAT is CC.



    I'll admit it, I dislike CC. BB has earned some of my respect in the five years I've been living in the states (my first experience at BB was trying to buy a fax machine and the kid told me, "I don't have a clue, but I can help you get one off the shelf once you decide.") In the last two years I've purchased a digital video camera, digital SLR, the HP and countless video games at BB with the help of some very knowledgeable salespeople.



    Honestly, I haven't been in a CC in probably two years -- and from the look of the store front and the parking lot, more and more people are avoiding CC.



    Of course I hope Apple comes out ahead on the deal -- I'm just afraid the extra shelf space isn't going to be worth it in the end. Just because they sell a few thousand systems will mean it was successful. There will never be any way to figure how many customers were steered away.



    Do I see a mission for some mystery shoppers???? A few hidden videos???? A few podcasts????
  • Reply 47 of 62
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by watashi


    I'll admit it, I dislike CC. BB has earned some of my respect in the five years I've been living in the states (my first experience at BB was trying to buy a fax machine and the kid told me, "I don't have a clue, but I can help you get one off the shelf once you decide.") In the last two years I've purchased a digital video camera, digital SLR, the HP and countless video games at BB with the help of some very knowledgeable salespeople.



    I'm cool with Best Buy. The thing I like the most is that they haven't given me any trouble for returns, and they employees generally try to be as helpful as they can.



    Sometimes it's a little annoying to be asked if I need help every three aisles, it's better than having to track people down.
  • Reply 48 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    The problem I see Mel is when a buyer is undecided on platform and goes in to CC to buy a new computer. How will they be treated? My guess is that the 'knowlegdable' sales staff will steer them towards a pc and a potential sale is lost. People that know what they want aren't likely to be affected but those who have an open mind will get slanted advice.



    I don't think that will happen very much anymore. I see attitudes changing in CompUsa, for example. A couple of years ago, it was worse. I think you guys are hoping that this will fail, because you want more Apple only stores to be opened. But, I don't agree.



    Apple can never have the number of stores that it will take to compete on an even level. It will simply never happen.



    Apple NEEDS to sell machines through these stores. What I don't understand is why some of you here can't see that. Apple knows it's true. Otherwise they would be thinking the same thing you are.



    It's always worth a chance. When a consumer goes into a store and wants a specific item, the sales person really has no choice other than to sell it. I'm rarely steered towards something else when I go somewhere and ask for something specific. A buyer has to be pretty wimpy to allow a salesperson to steer them away from something they have come in to buy.



    I'm not sure that I would want someone like that to buy a Mac anyway, as their friends will ride them about it later, and they won't be happy with their purchase. If they can't hold off a sales person, then they won't be able to hold off their friends. And you know how some PC owners can be about Mac owners. I've had that myself over the years. But, as you know, I'm not easy to persuade. But, people who are, should buy a PC. They will be happier.
  • Reply 49 of 62
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    Apple NEEDS to sell machines through these stores. What I don't understand is why some of you here can't see that. Apple knows it's true. Otherwise they would be thinking the same thing you are.



    What is Apple thinking when they open their own retail stores right down the street from existing computer retailers? People have complained in the past about non-Apple retail stores not having enough high volume Apple products in stock, or those retailers not carrying the latest products because those products all went to Apple's own stores. Is this starting to change?
  • Reply 50 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar


    What is Apple thinking when they open their own retail stores right down the street from existing computer retailers? People have complained in the past about non-Apple retail stores not having enough high volume Apple products in stock, or those retailers not carrying the latest products because those products all went to Apple's own stores. Is this starting to change?



    Apple is greedy. If they spot an opportunity to take sales from an established Apple dealer, then they will. The fact that it is Apple doing it, doesn't make it right.



    They can't do that with these big retailers, because they will just drop Apple from their stores. Apple has to play nice.



    They were going to open a store a block away from one of their oldest, and most loyal dealers, here in NYC, until the local community board turned down their plans. That's strange, because that dealer, TekServe, is sent machines from the local Apple store, in Soho, to perform warranty repairs.
  • Reply 51 of 62
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    I don't think that will happen very much anymore. I see attitudes changing in CompUsa, for example. A couple of years ago, it was worse. I think you guys are hoping that this will fail, because you want more Apple only stores to be opened. But, I don't agree.



    Apple can never have the number of stores that it will take to compete on an even level. It will simply never happen.



    Apple NEEDS to sell machines through these stores. What I don't understand is why some of you here can't see that. Apple knows it's true. Otherwise they would be thinking the same thing you are.



    It's always worth a chance. When a consumer goes into a store and wants a specific item, the sales person really has no choice other than to sell it. I'm rarely steered towards something else when I go somewhere and ask for something specific. A buyer has to be pretty wimpy to allow a salesperson to steer them away from something they have come in to buy.



    I'm not sure that I would want someone like that to buy a Mac anyway, as their friends will ride them about it later, and they won't be happy with their purchase. If they can't hold off a sales person, then they won't be able to hold off their friends. And you know how some PC owners can be about Mac owners. I've had that myself over the years. But, as you know, I'm not easy to persuade. But, people who are, should buy a PC. They will be happier.





    People that know what they want won't be easily dissuaded frm their purchase. I agree on that. It's the potential switchers and first time computer buyers I'm worried about. They can be influenced by sales people. Frankly all they have to do is ask 'why are you looking at a Mac?'? That question alone would probably keep potential buyers from buying a Mac. I agree that Apple has a distribution problem and this MAY be the best solution at this time but as I said before, if it doesn't work at CompUSA why will it work at CC(or BB for that matter)?
  • Reply 52 of 62
    "I think that most people are smart enough to distinguish between the retailer, and the manufacturer"



    You have a lot of faith in your fellow man or woman. Personally, I think the majority of the human race is made up of morons.
  • Reply 53 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    The problem I see Mel is when a buyer is undecided on platform and goes in to CC to buy a new computer. How will they be treated? My guess is that the 'knowlegdable' sales staff will steer them towards a pc and a potential sale is lost. People that know what they want aren't likely to be affected but those who have an open mind will get slanted advice.



    On the other hand, places like CC & BB are a lot more common than Apple stores. How many people are willing to drive three hours to thier nearest 500k+ metro area, wade through gridlocked traffic, and try to find a spot at a crowded large mall just to see a Mac in person? Not too many. They'll just go to the nearest Best Buy or ven Wal-Mart and buy an HP. That's what I did whem I got my first Mac.
  • Reply 54 of 62
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig


    On the other hand, places like CC & BB are a lot more common than Apple stores. How many people are willing to drive three hours to thier nearest 500k+ metro area, wade through gridlocked traffic, and try to find a spot at a crowded large mall just to see a Mac in person? Not too many. They'll just go to the nearest Best Buy or ven Wal-Mart and buy an HP. That's what I did whem I got my first Mac.



    Ben,



    I see the need for added shelf space and realize that Apple has a distribution channel problem. However does this deal with CC help Apple? I don't know given past history with BB, CompUSA and CC. As I mentioned earlier I'm very wary of the sales staff at these outlets and their often biased recommendations. I think Apple might be better of using Target as a distribution channel. There are plenty Target stores nationwide. There also wouldn't be this issue of annoying sales people giving out their biased 'advice'. Target with their Michael Graves and Mizarahi lines of products sort of fits with the Apple philosophy. Of course, I have no idea if this is something that has been explored by Apple or embraced by Target.
  • Reply 55 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    People that know what they want won't be easily dissuaded frm their purchase. I agree on that. It's the potential switchers and first time computer buyers I'm worried about. They can be influenced by sales people. Frankly all they have to do is ask 'why are you looking at a Mac?'? That question alone would probably keep potential buyers from buying a Mac. I agree that Apple has a distribution problem and this MAY be the best solution at this time but as I said before, if it doesn't work at CompUSA why will it work at CC(or BB for that matter)?



    As Ben has said, people are not going to drive 50 to a hundred miles to find a Mac Dealer. And many people will not buy something they have never seen, like a Mac, from a web site. A Dell is deifferent, it's just a PC, but a Mac is not.



    If These syores won't be selling Macs, then that buyer you are so afraid for will be buying a PC at BB, CC, or CompUsa anyway. It's much better to give them the choice.



    You guys are like a broken record.
  • Reply 56 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lsngctrl


    "I think that most people are smart enough to distinguish between the retailer, and the manufacturer"



    You have a lot of faith in your fellow man or woman. Personally, I think the majority of the human race is made up of morons.



    If someone is as stupid as you think they are, let them buy PC's.



    If they aren't, they will buy what they want. If they then want the Mac, they will buy it.



    Wake up, things are changing!
  • Reply 57 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    Ben,



    I see the need for added shelf space and realize that Apple has a distribution channel problem. However does this deal with CC help Apple? I don't know given past history with BB, CompUSA and CC. As I mentioned earlier I'm very wary of the sales staff at these outlets and their often biased recommendations. I think Apple might be better of using Target as a distribution channel. There are plenty Target stores nationwide. There also wouldn't be this issue of annoying sales people giving out their biased 'advice'. Target with their Michael Graves and Mizarahi lines of products sort of fits with the Apple philosophy. Of course, I have no idea if this is something that has been explored by Apple or embraced by Target.



    You have an amazingly closed mind on this issue, don't you?



    You are like the PC user who just can't imagine why anyone would buy a Mac, no matter how it's described.



    So, you don't think Apple has a better understanding of what they are doing than you do?



    Or are you an expert in these matters?



    Do you own your own business, and have experience in retail?
  • Reply 58 of 62
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    You have an amazingly closed mind on this issue, don't you?



    No. I've been in CC, BB and CompUSA many times. I know the way they sell their products. I'm not convinced it will work. Please explain to me what is going to be different this time around that it will successful. How will this be any different or better than CompUSA store in store model which is now going to be killed off?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    You are like the PC user who just can't imagine why anyone would buy a Mac, no matter how it's described.



    I don't know how you've come to such a conclussion. I do think that in order for someone to purchase a Mac they will need a fair and honest demo of the product. As I've mentioned before I don't see it happening in CC. See previous post of Watashi if you would like some insight as to how they operate.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    So, you don't think Apple has a better understanding of what they are doing than you do?



    And you agree with all of Apple's business decisions? I didn't think so.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    Or are you an expert in these matters?



    At least as much as you.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    Do you own your own business, and have experience in retail?



    As a matter of fact I'm a co-owner of my own business, not that it's any business of yours. As I said earlier, if Apple needs shelf space they would be wiser, IMO, to look to other retailers such as Target or even Wal-mart. At least in these store there won't be sales people around who may steer people awy from Apple. Obviously you disagree. Don't take it so personally.
  • Reply 59 of 62
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac


    No. I've been in CC, BB and CompUSA many times. I know the way they sell their products. I'm not convinced it will work. Please explain to me what is going to be different this time around that it will successful. How will this be any different or better than CompUSA store in store model which is now going to be killed off?



    I've been in these stores many times over the years, and have bought quite a few items. Maybe here in NYC, the stores are of far better quality than elsewhere, but they are pretty good, and are flush with customers.



    Quote:

    I don't know how you've come to such a conclussion. I do think that in order for someone to purchase a Mac they will need a fair and honest demo of the product. As I've mentioned before I don't see it happening in CC. See previous post of Watashi if you would like some insight as to how they operate.



    Again, I disagree. I know planty of people over the past two years who have bought a Mac simply because they know someone who has one, or their kid wants one because they use them in school, or their company just got a few, etc.



    A few have bought from Apple, but most have not. I don't see the problem you see. I've explained to people that the stores may, or may not, have a good demo setup, and not to worry about it.



    I also have not seen they way you say they operate. It's been fine here. And the past is the past. forget it.



    Quote:

    And you agree with all of Apple's business decisions? I didn't think so.



    I don't have to. But I can see where thety make sense, and where Apple can have a product that is hot, and has the other companies eager to sell it. In the past those companies were willing to be persuaded by Apple to try, but didn't have much concern, or belief, that they would sell. But, it is different now. One doesn't have to persuade people to buy a Mac. Marketshare is going up by a good amount.



    All of the other times Apple tried this, their marketshare, and even sales were going down. How did you expect the experiments to go then? At the time Apple was desperite to get more dealers, as they had no outlets of their own, and the company was sinking fast



    But now just the opposite affair exists. Apple has proven that they can sell machines, and software, they need outlets, not because their sales are falling, but because they can't handle the growth, and interest in their products, on their own. BB and CC aren't being convinced that they can sell Mac's on their own, despite the fact that sales were dropping. Now they want to sell Mac's, because sales are rising faster than the industry, and will rise even faster in the future.



    Before, the companies weren't willing to invest much money into the project, because there was likely little expectation that they would sell many machines, even it the tests were a success.



    Now, the expectation of selling a lot of machines is high, so they are willing to put more money, and effort, into it.





    Quote:

    At least as much as you.



    No, you don't!





    Quote:

    As a matter of fact I'm a co-owner of my own business, not that it's any business of yours. As I said earlier, if Apple needs shelf space they would be wiser, IMO, to look to other retailers such as Target or even Wal-mart. At least in these store there won't be sales people around who may steer people awy from Apple. Obviously you disagree. Don't take it so personally.



    For the purpose of an intelligent discussion, a little background is helpful. I've never felt that my bio, which all can see, or write their own, should be something to hide. If someone is 15, and typing away on something that they have absolutely no knowledge about, and it is obvious in their post (as it usually is), then it can be safely dismissed.



    I have a long career in advertising, manufacturing, and retail, so I have some idea of how it works over the long term. I've learned to keep an open mind about the selling experience, and I believe that watching all of the factors before making a decision about something like this is required. I see a major shift in the way the public regards Apple, and I believe that this shift will make a major difference in the way their products will be received in places such as BB and CC, where iPods are already big sellers. Apple has set the stage, so to speak.



    They may want to sell through Target, which is a low end, but trendy company, and they may have some success. But, Walmart is a company that worries me. Apple is already locking horns with them over movie downloads, and I would hate to think that they could use shelf space to blackmail Apple, if their products were there. That is how Walmart operates, and I'd rather Apple not get involved in it.



    We have to let it play out.
  • Reply 60 of 62
    Well, ladies and gentlemen, I have read your remarks in this thread and I think you underestimate the biggest asset Apple Computer now has....Steve Jobs. Having lived in Santa Clara when Jobs reclaimed his company, I can tell you that if it's not good for Apple, he will neither support it or authorize it to be done. Enough ugly-duckling eggs were laid in the past, but since his return many, many changes have occured. And you can say what you like about Microsoft but they have supported Macintosh from the very beginning, and as I recall kicked in quite a bit of cash to get G3's out the door. So don't be so hard on MS. I realize I will probably be flamed for this remark, but guys it happens to be the truth, like it or not.



    I became one of the "faithful" when I putchased an Apple //e many years ago. I had a Mac 128 two days after the hammer was thrown, and like many others endured the days of mismanagement and engineering blunders, i.e. Performas with 32 bit controllers on 8 bit busses, etc.... If this seems passe' to some of you, I agree. It's a new day. Jobs is back in control, the BOD is a visionary wonder, and company stock is soaring, Apples current advertising makes PC users look like fools. XSERVE sales and usage is through the roof. The new product line will stand ON IT OWN MERIT! Mac Pro's are the fastest consumer desktops on the planet, bar none. iMacs and iPods are the rage and consumers want them. MacBooks and Pros are now the notebooks of choice. Price points are now extremely competitive and market shares are quickly rising, so who cares what a CC or BB salesman says or does. We live in a tech-driven society where keeping up with the Jones has gone in to hyper-drive. One last big point, no viruses, spyware, or crap.



    My best advice to you folks, is the next time you visit an Apple Store revel in the experience. At the CC/BB/CUSA/MC outlets, be thankful Apple is once again represented.
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