Cnet announces Mac Pro EOl!

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    That's the Apple Pro you're thinking of. It's the successor to the Mac Pro. Release date is unknown, but working prototypes have been in the field for some time.



    There were a few innacuracies in that report. Apparently, both i7 and Xeon variants exist, which explains the prototype cube's size, it's built to cool Xeons, not i7s. In any event, it may be possible to cluster 16 core xeon cubes using Apple Galaxy over Thunderbolt.



    It appears Apple wasn't content with the Mac Pro because it had nothing to differentiate it from windows Xeon workstations. Not so with the Apple Pro. Things are about to get very intersting on the desktop front...



    Yes, well, when you can provide any sort of proof of this, we'll take it seriously.
  • Reply 22 of 74
    What would you have me do? Get video up of my Silicon Valley buddy being polygraphed?



    The truth is, Apple will lose the pro market segment if their only desktop offering is an all in one. Pros need flexibility with displays (actually more than Pros need this flexibility, but it's a deal breaker for pros). Losing the pro market isn't only about sales, it's also about influence. If the Pros stop using Macs, their choice will reverberate through the whole market. Apple will not let this happen, and we know the Mac Pro is history, so logically a replacement is imminent.



    My report details one of Apple's ideas that's now in the field. Some other prototype may finally get the nod for production, but as my friend said, Galaxy has been in testing for longer than the Apple Pro, so it's a safe bet that any successor to the Mac Pro will be capable of Thunderbolt clustering. Clustering "iMac Pros" wouldn't make any sense, so clearly there is a Mac Pro successor. The exact form and specs are trivial, we already know it will be revolutionary. Steve Jobs will rock the pro desktop market from his grave.
  • Reply 23 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    What would you have me do? Get video up of my Silicon Valley buddy being polygraphed?



    A picture of one of the Galaxy cubes in an elevator would suffice. A 'Silicon Valley guy' can lie through his teeth more often than not.



    Seriously, I absolutely love the idea you've presented: modular cubes that actually DO operate on plug and play power increases?



    But it's too far-fetched given Apple's history. They don't care about pros or this demographic. Unless they're planning this as a SECOND new computing revolution (the first being multitouch desktop OS'), it's just not believable.



    Quote:

    If the Pros stop using Macs, their choice will reverberate through the whole market. Apple will not let this happen, and we know the Mac Pro is history, so logically a replacement is imminent.



    You make a point. But the high-end iMac is certainly powerful enough for many needs. And it's not like Thunderbolt wouldn't give them options.
  • Reply 24 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    That's the Apple Pro you're thinking of. It's the successor to the Mac Pro. Release date is unknown, but working prototypes have been in the field for some time.



    There were a few innacuracies in that report. Apparently, both i7 and Xeon variants exist, which explains the prototype cube's size, it's built to cool Xeons, not i7s. In any event, it may be possible to cluster 16 core xeon cubes using Apple Galaxy over Thunderbolt.



    It appears Apple wasn't content with the Mac Pro because it had nothing to differentiate it from windows Xeon workstations. Not so with the Apple Pro. Things are about to get very intersting on the desktop front...



    I hope so.



    From what you describe coupled with X-Grid and Open CL, Appel could have a differentiator in workstation dept.



    *drools at the thought of it. It's almost sexual.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 25 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yes, well, when you can provide any sort of proof of this, we'll take it seriously.



    Easy now, Tal'. Let's me enjoy the fantasy for a while longer before you put ice (cube) on my hot anticipation.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 26 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    A picture of one of the Galaxy cubes in an elevator would suffice. A 'Silicon Valley guy' can lie through his teeth more often than not.



    Seriously, I absolutely love the idea you've presented: modular cubes that actually DO operate on plug and play power increases?



    But it's too far-fetched given Apple's history. They don't care about pros or this demographic. Unless they're planning this as a SECOND new computing revolution (the first being multitouch desktop OS'), it's just not believable.



    You make a point. But the high-end iMac is certainly powerful enough for many needs. And it's not like Thunderbolt wouldn't give them options.





    *The idea certainly tantalises. Certainly better than canning the Pro and leaving it at that.



    What I like about the idea of the Cube. It could scale from the iMac price range right upto the Pro price range and drive more volume that way. Plus every Cube sale would be a potential Apple monitor sale. Not without it's own significant mark up. If the price is scaleable then it gives people the option to build their own lego stack from the small artist, small company...to medium and large operations.



    With Apple's charge into enterprise with iPad and iPhone...to have some scaleable plug and play iron wouldn't be out of step. It could be a good addition in contrast to the hulking and over priced Pro which is somewhat out of touch and out of date.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 27 of 74
    I agree that the iMac is powerful enough for the needs of most users, even many professionals. Unfortunately, it's a flawed design, even for an all in one. Ever try to replace a hard drive on one? For that matter, why only one hard drive bay? The 27" iMac could easily take a second or even third internal hard drive, and it wouldn't be difficult to make them accessible.



    The biggest flaw with the iMac is of course the combination of the display and computer. It's an idiotic idea with any screen, but with a gorgeous 27" IPS LED-backlit display it's criminal. Seriously Apple? So when it's time to upgrade the computer, we're supposed to throw out a high end display? WTF? Offering an all-in-one as part of the desktop lineup is fine, it's a good solution for grannies and very casual users, but for any serious computer users it's an insult.



    For almost 15 years Apple has had this gaping hole in their desktop lineup. The Apple Pro will rock, but most likely it will still leave a hole for sub-$2000 desktops. Apple needs an i5/i7 based desktop computer, NOT a headless laptop like the Mini, I'm talking a real desktop with desktop-grade components. Basically, they need to build the computer the Mini should have been. Funny thing, desktop components are cheaper than laptop components, so it will cost Apple less to build it than the Mini. Slap some desktop components in an aluminum box and be done with it!



    As for the danger of eating into iMac sales and cutting into Apple's profit margins, that argument held water back when Apple was drowning, but not now. Volume will make up for any loss in profit margins. Offer some more Thunderbolt displays and many desktop buyers will buy them along with their Apple desktop box.



    Speaking of Thunderbolt, it's more of a band-aid than a real solution for expansion. Using Thunderbolt to augment an iMac with PCIe cards, hard drives, and the like is a severely expensive proposition, and it's just plain messy to have a desk cluttered with external boxes and rat's nest of cables. TB will also run into bandwidth bottlenecks if used to replicate the expandability of a Mac Pro.



    Okay, rant over. Hope I didn't ruffle any fanboy feathers, but Apple's insistence on an all-in-one desktop line has been a thorn in my saddle for what seems like a lifetime.
  • Reply 28 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    What would you have me do? Get video up of my Silicon Valley buddy being polygraphed?



    The truth is, Apple will lose the pro market segment if their only desktop offering is an all in one. Pros need flexibility with displays (actually more than Pros need this flexibility, but it's a deal breaker for pros). Losing the pro market isn't only about sales, it's also about influence. If the Pros stop using Macs, their choice will reverberate through the whole market. Apple will not let this happen, and we know the Mac Pro is history, so logically a replacement is imminent.



    My report details one of Apple's ideas that's now in the field. Some other prototype may finally get the nod for production, but as my friend said, Galaxy has been in testing for longer than the Apple Pro, so it's a safe bet that any successor to the Mac Pro will be capable of Thunderbolt clustering. Clustering "iMac Pros" wouldn't make any sense, so clearly there is a Mac Pro successor. The exact form and specs are trivial, we already know it will be revolutionary. Steve Jobs will rock the pro desktop market from his grave.



    Enjoyed this post, Junkyard. It's thoughtful and well argued. It makes sense.



    Hopefully, we'll see it come to pass.



    The point about Apple ceding the 'Pro' market to the competition seems unthinkable. It would be a loss of face (though the billions make compensate them...)



    I think many on these boards would be fine with a Pro replacement that's more in keeping with the times.



    Maybe Apple can redefine the workstation market in a more accessible way. Maybe we're over due a paradigm shift in this area. Considering what Apple has done in the music, phone, tablet and laptop markets...and to a degree in the desktop market with the iMac (near enough a million seller per quarter is not to be sniffed at...) then the tired Pro could do with re-energizing and imagining.



    Apple Pro. 'It's sexual.' *(That would be my marketing tag for it.)



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 29 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    I agree that the iMac is powerful enough for the needs of most users, even many professionals. Unfortunately, it's a flawed design, even for an all in one. Ever try to replace a hard drive on one? For that matter, why only one hard drive bay? The 27" iMac could easily take a second or even third internal hard drive, and it wouldn't be difficult to make them accessible.



    The biggest flaw with the iMac is of course the combination of the display and computer. It's an idiotic idea with any screen, but with a gorgeous 27" IPS LED-backlit display it's criminal. Seriously Apple? So when it's time to upgrade the computer, we're supposed to throw out a high end display? WTF? Offering an all-in-one as part of the desktop lineup is fine, it's a good solution for grannies and very casual users, but for any serious computer users it's an insult.



    For almost 15 years Apple has had this gaping hole in their desktop lineup. The Apple Pro will rock, but most likely it will still leave a hole for sub-$2000 desktops. Apple needs an i5/i7 based desktop computer, NOT a headless laptop like the Mini, I'm talking a real desktop with desktop-grade components. Basically, they need to build the computer the Mini should have been. Funny thing, desktop components are cheaper than laptop components, so it will cost Apple less to build it than the Mini. Slap some desktop components in an aluminum box and be done with it!



    As for the danger of eating into iMac sales and cutting into Apple's profit margins, that argument held water back when Apple was drowning, but not now. Volume will make up for any loss in profit margins. Offer some more Thunderbolt displays and many desktop buyers will buy them along with their Apple desktop box.



    Speaking of Thunderbolt, it's more of a band-aid than a real solution for expansion. Using Thunderbolt to augment an iMac with PCIe cards, hard drives, and the like is a severely expensive proposition, and it's just plain messy to have a desk cluttered with external boxes and rat's nest of cables. TB will also run into bandwidth bottlenecks if used to replicate the expandability of a Mac Pro.



    Okay, rant over. Hope I didn't ruffle any fanboy feathers, but Apple's insistence on an all-in-one desktop line has been a thorn in my saddle for what seems like a lifetime.



    *rubs chin, thoughtfully.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 30 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    I agree that the iMac is powerful enough for the needs of most users, even many professionals. Unfortunately, it's a flawed design, even for an all in one. Ever try to replace a hard drive on one?



    That doesn't imply the design is in any way flawed. The hard drive could be easily changed if they moved to a Mac Pro-style drive drawer.



    Quote:

    The 27" iMac could easily take a second or even third internal hard drive, and it wouldn't be difficult to make them accessible.



    It does. And yes, they could.



    Quote:

    The biggest flaw with the iMac is of course the combination of the display and computer. It's an idiotic idea with any screen, but with a gorgeous 27" IPS LED-backlit display it's criminal. Seriously Apple? So when it's time to upgrade the computer, we're supposed to throw out a high end display?



    Uh, nope. Which is exactly why the iMac operates AS a display. You want to upgrade, do it. Use the iMac as a display with the hardware turned off. They've been able to do that for years.



    Quote:

    For almost 15 years Apple has had this gaping hole in their desktop lineup.



    And for almost 15 years, Apple's marketshare has increased and profits skyrocketed. Obviously the hole doesn't even exist.



    Quote:

    I'm talking a real desktop with desktop-grade components.



    Which is what every PC on the market is and what Apple isn't. There won't be an xMac.



    Quote:

    Slap some desktop components in an aluminum box and be done with it!



    Zero point to that.



    Quote:

    Hope I didn't ruffle any fanboy feathers…



    Odd that you'd find Apple fans on an Apple fan forum, huh?



    Quote:

    …but Apple's insistence on an all-in-one desktop line has been a thorn in my saddle for what seems like a lifetime.



    So buy from someone else.
  • Reply 31 of 74
    Can't the current Mac Pro run through the iMac's monitor?



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 32 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Can't the current Mac Pro run through the iMac's monitor?



    Yes, but not the current iMac. The display feature only works Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt and Mini DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort for whatever nonsensical reason.
  • Reply 33 of 74
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    As in professional users. The problem is professional users don't care that much about the Mac Pro anymore. The price structure of the Mac Pro is such that many professionals see a better match for their needs in other Apple products.



    As to the instant whining and balling of tears from the so called video professionals in this forum it is pretty obvious that sales from this sector have declined significantly. So in a way they are directly responsible for the lack of attention to the Mac Pro. If an item doesn't sell well Apple obsessing over it won't help.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    A picture of one of the Galaxy cubes in an elevator would suffice. A 'Silicon Valley guy' can lie through his teeth more often than not.



    Yeah like that would happen. I don't know if this is a long running joke or not but I do know that people given access to such hardware are expected to keep their mouths shut.

    Quote:



    Seriously, I absolutely love the idea you've presented: modular cubes that actually DO operate on plug and play power increases?



    Building cube like hardware would be easy these days. Hardware isn't the issue, software is. The problem is building software to work on dynamically sized clusters is not easy. More so each app is very specific to a cluster. Honestly unless Apple has some breakthrough software to simplify the management of such clusters and to vastly easy the app developer workload, I just don't see vast number of apps ever coming to such systems.



    Hardware easy - software not so easy.

    Quote:



    But it's too far-fetched given Apple's history. They don't care about pros or this demographic. Unless they're planning this as a SECOND new computing revolution (the first being multitouch desktop OS'), it's just not believable.



    Your statement about Apple and Pro users is just bull crap. If Apple didn't care about Pro users they wouldn't have some of the best laptops out there for Pro users. Even today the Mac Pro is an excellent machine if you are buying one of the higher performance configurations. For people that really need what is inside a Pro, it is totally laughable to even suggest that an iMac is a more powerful machine. In fact there are damn few desktop machines on the market that are more powerful.



    You can fidget about all you want about the lack of a Mac Pro update, but the fact remains there have been many factors at work here that have kept a respin off the market. Apple is on the verge of a new product release, I believe that in my bones, not because of all the rumors posted here but because the time is right for such a hardware refactoring. The fact that XMac or whatever you want to call it isn't released yet is not an indicator that Apple doesn't care about Pros. If anything it is just the opposite, they care enough about their products to avoid rushed releases. It would do people well to learn to think positive here.



    Quote:

    You make a point. But the high-end iMac is certainly powerful enough for many needs. And it's not like Thunderbolt wouldn't give them options.



    The so called high end iMac is barely mid level performance hardware. This idea that an iMac can replace the Pro is just garbage. Yes I understand that every year the iMc gets more powerful, something that is likely to accelerate, but software and user demands continue to grow. You also mis the reality that no matter how fast the iMac gets a Mac Pro or it's replacement always has the capability to be much faster and more productive.



    You may argue over the above but please don't throw single threaded or poorly threaded software benchmarks at us. In the discussion of the Mac Pro or its replacement, assuch references are meaningless for users of such machines use heavily threaded apps concurrently with many other running processes.
  • Reply 34 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I don't know if this is a long running joke or not?



    Really? You've not heard the elevator shot bit?



    Quote:

    If Apple didn't care about Pro users they wouldn't have some of the best laptops out there for Pro users.



    Everything I've seen about the MacBook Pros is that they're mid-range at best. Not saying they're not good laptops, I'm saying they're not seen as "pro" machines. Particularly the ones without dedicated graphics, but all of them.



    Quote:

    Even today the Mac Pro is an excellent machine if you are buying one of the higher performance configurations.



    Today the Mac Pro is the required machine for higher-performance configurations. It's nearly two years old and getting rather slow.



    Quote:

    For people that really need what is inside a Pro, it is totally laughable to even suggest that an iMac is a more powerful machine.



    Never said that.



    Quote:

    It would do people well to learn to think positive here.



    That has never served me well in predicting or hoping for Apple hardware releases.



    Quote:

    You may argue over the above but please don't throw single threaded or poorly threaded software benchmarks at us. In the discussion of the Mac Pro or its replacement, assuch references are meaningless for users of such machines use heavily threaded apps concurrently with many other running processes.



    Nor would I insult anyone's intelligence by doing so. The Mac Pro remains the best at what it's designed to do. There just happens to be more these days that doesn't require a workstation.
  • Reply 35 of 74
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    *The idea certainly tantalises. Certainly better than canning the Pro and leaving it at that.



    I'm not sure how all this non sense about the Pro being canned with no replacement got started. Apple employes smart people, I don't ever think that they would be so stupid as to have the Mini as their only desktop play.



    On the other hand I really don't understand this idea that Apple should be able to squat and deliver a brand new Pro computer in the blink of an eye. To be a worthwhile effort the new "Pro" needs a radical forward looking architecture.

    Quote:



    What I like about the idea of the Cube. It could scale from the iMac price range right upto the Pro price range and drive more volume that way. Plus every Cube sale would be a potential Apple monitor sale. Not without it's own significant mark up. If the price is scaleable then it gives people the option to build their own lego stack from the small artist, small company...to medium and large operations.



    I see two models. One would be a Trimty or Ivy Bridge low end machine for general users. The other a Sandy Bridge E with a fast AMD GPu.

    Quote:

    With Apple's charge into enterprise with iPad and iPhone...to have some scaleable plug and play iron wouldn't be out of step. It could be a good addition in contrast to the hulking and over priced Pro which is somewhat out of touch and out of date.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    Moving iPhone and iPad into enterprise is easy compared to moving into the desktop realm. Desktops are used by enterprise in ways many don't understand in this forum. The place I work at has more "desktop" PCs running in the manufacturing area than it has in its office spaces. They get scattered about wherever a computational block is needed. The problem for Apple here is software and the attractivity of bargain basement pricing.



    Apple will never be able to grab a significant proportion of enterprise because it is never even considered by software developers.
  • Reply 36 of 74
    garypgaryp Posts: 150member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post


    ...as my friend said, Galaxy has been in testing for longer than the Apple Pro, so it's a safe bet that any successor to the Mac Pro will be capable of Thunderbolt clustering. Clustering "iMac Pros" wouldn't make any sense, so clearly there is a Mac Pro successor. The exact form and specs are trivial, we already know it will be revolutionary. Steve Jobs will rock the pro desktop market from his grave.



    What is Apple Galaxy? Is that cluster enabling/management software?
  • Reply 37 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by garyp View Post


    What is Apple Galaxy? Is that cluster enabling/management software?



    Yeah, he claims the Mac Pro replacement will have plug-and-play expandability via Thunderbolt. You want a faster machine, just buy another cube box and plug it in and the system knows it's faster now.
  • Reply 38 of 74
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yeah, he claims the Mac Pro replacement will have plug-and-play expandability via Thunderbolt. You want a faster machine, just buy another cube box and plug it in and the system knows it's faster now.



    That would be a great way to saturate the Thunderbolt bus and make it utterly unusable for anything that you would require a cluster in the first place.



    Read/Write speeds would be back in the Commodore 64 era.
  • Reply 39 of 74
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post


    That would be a great way to saturate the Thunderbolt bus and make it utterly unusable for anything that you would require a cluster in the first place.



    Read/Write speeds would be back in the Commodore 64 era.



    One possibility would to be to add more ports.



    Another is Intels new supper chip with built in Infiniband. This chip would be exactly what Apple would need for a cluster machine.
  • Reply 40 of 74
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoctorGonzo View Post


    That would be a great way to saturate the Thunderbolt bus and make it utterly unusable for anything that you would require a cluster in the first place.



    The iMac has two Thunderbolt ports. I imagine all Macs will eventually have at least two and many will have more.



    I don't expect the next Mac Pro to have fewer than four, and if Apple is serious about it, they'll have six or eight.
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