Yo, the demo is a video! No hands on independent reviewer, etc. They only should you the cool flash /special stuff. How do you think the W7 applications look and run like? This the is big issue. Windows tablets have been out for years and they all suck. Yeah a demo using special apps looks and works cool but the other million application and OS don't.
Windows 7 tweaked to run with touch does not make for a great user experience.
Fingers just don't and can't replace a mouse for controlling Windows.
The iPad OS was designed from the ground up as a touch OS, there is a huge difference.
Just try touching some of the small targets you get on a Windows 7 touch device.
I tried a Sony Touch Desktop running Windows 7, it took 3 attempts to hit the X to close the window, as it is so small compared to the end of your finger. You either miss or get the wrong button.
We'll see. I have a feeling it'll be ok. Click is obviously a touch of the screen, double click is two touches, click and drag is just touch and swipe, and right click is tap and hold.
The iPad will obviously be a better finger friendly experience though.
BTW, the small X button isn't an issue as you can increase it's size in the display properties. Thing I think will get annoying are checkboxes too close together.
Perhaps we'll see an era of windows programs that have a tablet version where controls are spaced apart more and with larger text (probably not.)
Yo, the demo is a video! No hands on independent reviewer, etc. They only should you the cool flash /special stuff. How do you think the W7 applications look and run like? This the is big issue. Windows tablets have been out for years and they all suck. Yeah a demo using special apps looks and works cool but the other million application and OS don't.
And flash games - will be ported to the iPad and iPhone, either as a rewrite, or using Adobe's iPhone flash compiler technology that they've talked about. They'll also be adapted to fix the "mouse hover" problem with touch screen technology. Flash uses mouse hover extensively in practice, and the HP tablet is going to be frustrating in that regard - you'll see the content, but you won't be able to interact with it!
Yes, Packager for iPhone will let you build AS3/AIR apps and compile them down to native ARM code. There are already Flash-built apps on the App Store. It'll be interesting to see when CS5 is released what you can and can't do from an API perspective.
We routinely get 3-5 hrs of life out of our Panasonic Toughbooks here. But 1.) the toughbooks weigh in at more than 1.5# and I doubt we would get 5+ hrs of life running video (regardless of wifi). The bench mark, for me, is can the iPad deliver on the promise of '10 hours of video playback' in a 1.5# device.
I have both 3g and Wifi on my iPhone constantly. It is only a drain when I use push notification from some apps. But, yeah, if push is one, I can drain a battery in under 3 hrs.
But in active use of a single app? Wifi or no, I get 5 hrs or so on my iPhone.
And correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the current HP tablets in a $2000- $3000 USD price range? :-)
I believe the TM2t runs right around 1000.00. Specs on mine are 4GB of memory, 12.1 multi touch HD LED screen, 500GB 7200rpm drive, Wireless N with BT, Intell SU7300 which is 1.3 DUO and I believe its a 6cell battery. I believe it has a 4550 ATI GPU.
So its pretty nice for the Tablets on the market today.
I believe its the Dell Tablet that is 2-3k and honestly I dont see anything special about it to justify that price.
And that is, of course, if Apple doesn't get a 'cease and desist' order against HP for infringing on the multi-touch metaphor.
Apple wouldn't want to get in the ring with HP. Best sticking to pushing around the small potatoes. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be pussy footing around with HTC, they'd have gone after Google.
One point seems to missed so far.... who's going to buy an HP Slate?
We've seen MP3 and video players with more features than any iPod, yet they silently disappear when sales fall flat. Only Apple has the ecosystem, dedicated developers and content distrobution system required to sustain a product through it's initial launch and into a healthy product lifecycle.
For you mathmatically inclined: HP Slate = Zune = Fail
... Just try touching some of the small targets you get on a Windows 7 touch device.
I tried a Sony Touch Desktop running Windows 7, it took 3 attempts to hit the X to close the window, as it is so small compared to the end of your finger. You either miss or get the wrong button.
It doesn't seem likely now that Apple is really considering adding touch to the desktop OS, or at least not anytime soon. The patent is likely to prevent Microsoft and others from running touch modified versions of Windows 7 (useful ones at least), from running on similar hardware to the iPad.
Apple wouldn't want to get in the ring with HP. Best sticking to pushing around the small potatoes. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be pussy footing around with HTC, they'd have gone after Google.
Nice try, but HTC is the one monetizing the IP violation.
All this competition is good as it will force Apple to continue to innovate. The flip side is that I wonder how many of these companies that are introducing their slate devices will be around in 2 years?
NONE of this is competition for the iPad which is substantially different from all of these other copy cat gadgets. All this crowing about the "necessity" of competition is ridiculous. Apple has never NEEDED competition in order to innovate. They've been doing it all along as simply a part of how they do business.
This HP Slate device is going to fall flat on its face due to HP's and Adobe's own arrogance in ignoring the real reasons why Apple isn't allowing Flash.
With the inevitable success of the iPad will follow an accelerated abandonment of Flash in favor of HTML5. It's not that Adobe hasn't been offered many chances by Apple to get its act together. No, it's arrogance that will kill Flash, just as the "arrogance" of the dinosaurs spelled their doom ages ago.
I really think these are very different devices within the same product category... But ultimately with different markets. Much like the typical pro/consumer market differentiation.
No big deal. Bring it all on. Some will love the iPad, some will like these.
Why do I want a small device to run Windows 7? I already have a laptop running Windows 7.
Don't get me wrong, I was hoping that the iPad was going to be a small device running full blown OS X. I won't lie, at first I was a little disappointed that it wasn't that. The more I thought about it though, I understand why Apple didn't go this route - and this is what sets the iPad apart from the HP Slate.
The iPad is designed from the ground up as a simple to use tablet device with superior touch screen capabilities. The performance will be amazing. The battery life will be amazing and the experience will be amazingly simple. Why? It was designed to be like that from the hardware right up to the software, that's why.
The HP Slate is a tablet designed to run Windows. So you'll get Flash. And Air. And all the problems that come with running a full version of Windows on a tiny, underpowered device (slow performance, short battery life, and a desktop OS with touch tacked on).
I believe that Flash will eventually become a "desktop class" standard and consumer devices like the iPad will make do without. Adobe has already released a Connect Pro app for the iPhone and it works super well. Connect is 100% Flash based on the web - so why can't this be done with things like the beloved Flash based games people are prattling on about? Can's convert Flash to an iPhone app? You will be able to do this soon enough. At Max last year Adobe showed off Flash CS5 with an option to export to iPhone (and , I bet, iPad by the time of release).
I don't think Flash will die, but it will change in some way shape or form. It will have to.
Here in lies the problem of Apple showing and telling long before sales started. IMHO Apple should have come out of the box with a ready to sell product. The developers could have been under NDAs or in the dark if Apple really wanted to be secret, the flip from iPhone to iPad development isn't hard and if Apple had all their apps such as iWorks ready plus the 2 x App feature there would have been enough stuff to start with to keep interest until developers got up to speed. Coming out early was a gift for the wannabes and copy cats to confuse the public. Hopefully Apple will be so differentiated by the interface and apps as to make all these worries moot.
It's funny (again) just like with the iPhone. The naysayers claiming Apple doesn't have a chance coming into the market so late. With the iPhone it was so established and entrenched with advanced handsets with companies with decades of cellular knowledge. With the iPad the claims are a limited mobile OS can't possibly compete with a desktop OS and that the market is too small to be profitable anyway. Now we have competitors scrambling to push press releases and make mockups to confuse customers.
I've used Windows XP and Office on a tablet, it's a pretty awful experience, even when using a stylus. I hope that HP is also working on an ARM-based solution using Android, because selling tablets in the thousands of dollars that use a desktop OS wasn't working for the last decade and it won't work for the next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44
Lets ignore the battery life aspect...
Flash depends heavily on hover, and click and drag. How many flash (games esp., since this is something that cannot be done in HTML5) are actually compatible with a touch interface?
Those are some of the obstacles with Flash 10.1 for mobiles, but I think the sites will still need to get rewritten once it's released. That seems like an issue. Plus, scrolling a webpage with Flash isn't always great on a powerful system, I have to wonder how smooth that will be on a mobile browser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K.
The race to tablet supremacy will be based on price... Not Flash support.
That seems pretty spot on. With the iPhone Apple when with the top end, but with the iPad Apple is starting much lower than people expected.
I don't think a pencil's thickness varies with the shade of graphite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crees!
Yes, Packager for iPhone will let you build AS3/AIR apps and compile them down to native ARM code. There are already Flash-built apps on the App Store. It'll be interesting to see when CS5 is released what you can and can't do from an API perspective.
This is a much better solution than trying to run Flash apps on an touch-based ARM or Atom system.
The more I see these Slates/Tablets/Keyboard Free computers floating around with full OSes, I have to say, it does make me think Apple has got the right idea.
I never thought I would say this, particularly without it having a camera, but I kind of want one. \
sadly, HP is right. from a pure web surfing experience, the HP is indisputably superior. Can't even use the Windows vs. OS X argument here. The kicker will be the battery lives. Steve claims adding flash woudl knock down the battery life from 10 to 2 hours. Something tells my the HP slate is going to have more than 2 hour battery life.
I'm disputing it. Like Steve said, Flash is old technology.
So what is this "something" that told you about battery life. . .a little birdie?
Apple didn't spend millions in R&D in designing their own processors to use in conjunction with the iPad and in conjunction with their battery technology, all with the aim of achieving THEIR battery life to yet squander it on allowing Flash to have it literally drained away.
All this precious "competition" will soon learn their respective lessons as their respective gadgets flop.
Comments
I don't know why HP would build and market a product around porn and Farmville.
Good luck with that.
Good point.
* buys HP shares *
P.S. Have you see how thick this thing is?
Exactly. These people just don't get it.
Windows 7 tweaked to run with touch does not make for a great user experience.
Fingers just don't and can't replace a mouse for controlling Windows.
The iPad OS was designed from the ground up as a touch OS, there is a huge difference.
Just try touching some of the small targets you get on a Windows 7 touch device.
I tried a Sony Touch Desktop running Windows 7, it took 3 attempts to hit the X to close the window, as it is so small compared to the end of your finger. You either miss or get the wrong button.
We'll see. I have a feeling it'll be ok. Click is obviously a touch of the screen, double click is two touches, click and drag is just touch and swipe, and right click is tap and hold.
The iPad will obviously be a better finger friendly experience though.
BTW, the small X button isn't an issue as you can increase it's size in the display properties. Thing I think will get annoying are checkboxes too close together.
Perhaps we'll see an era of windows programs that have a tablet version where controls are spaced apart more and with larger text (probably not.)
Holy crap.
Well, the iPad had a nice run.
Yo, the demo is a video! No hands on independent reviewer, etc. They only should you the cool flash /special stuff. How do you think the W7 applications look and run like? This the is big issue. Windows tablets have been out for years and they all suck. Yeah a demo using special apps looks and works cool but the other million application and OS don't.
P.S. Have you see how thick this thing is?
as thick as a #2 pencil.
And flash games - will be ported to the iPad and iPhone, either as a rewrite, or using Adobe's iPhone flash compiler technology that they've talked about. They'll also be adapted to fix the "mouse hover" problem with touch screen technology. Flash uses mouse hover extensively in practice, and the HP tablet is going to be frustrating in that regard - you'll see the content, but you won't be able to interact with it!
Yes, Packager for iPhone will let you build AS3/AIR apps and compile them down to native ARM code. There are already Flash-built apps on the App Store. It'll be interesting to see when CS5 is released what you can and can't do from an API perspective.
We routinely get 3-5 hrs of life out of our Panasonic Toughbooks here. But 1.) the toughbooks weigh in at more than 1.5# and I doubt we would get 5+ hrs of life running video (regardless of wifi). The bench mark, for me, is can the iPad deliver on the promise of '10 hours of video playback' in a 1.5# device.
I have both 3g and Wifi on my iPhone constantly. It is only a drain when I use push notification from some apps. But, yeah, if push is one, I can drain a battery in under 3 hrs.
But in active use of a single app? Wifi or no, I get 5 hrs or so on my iPhone.
And correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the current HP tablets in a $2000- $3000 USD price range? :-)
I believe the TM2t runs right around 1000.00. Specs on mine are 4GB of memory, 12.1 multi touch HD LED screen, 500GB 7200rpm drive, Wireless N with BT, Intell SU7300 which is 1.3 DUO and I believe its a 6cell battery. I believe it has a 4550 ATI GPU.
So its pretty nice for the Tablets on the market today.
I believe its the Dell Tablet that is 2-3k and honestly I dont see anything special about it to justify that price.
And that is, of course, if Apple doesn't get a 'cease and desist' order against HP for infringing on the multi-touch metaphor.
Apple wouldn't want to get in the ring with HP. Best sticking to pushing around the small potatoes. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be pussy footing around with HTC, they'd have gone after Google.
We've seen MP3 and video players with more features than any iPod, yet they silently disappear when sales fall flat. Only Apple has the ecosystem, dedicated developers and content distrobution system required to sustain a product through it's initial launch and into a healthy product lifecycle.
For you mathmatically inclined: HP Slate = Zune = Fail
Apple wouldn't want to get in the ring with HP. Best sticking to pushing around the small potatoes...
Yeah, for the same reason that Nokia shouldn't be getting in the ring with Apple...... oh wait.....
... Just try touching some of the small targets you get on a Windows 7 touch device.
I tried a Sony Touch Desktop running Windows 7, it took 3 attempts to hit the X to close the window, as it is so small compared to the end of your finger. You either miss or get the wrong button.
I'm starting to think that this is the primary reason behind Apple's patents on automatically resizing the window controls of a GUI for touch based input.
It doesn't seem likely now that Apple is really considering adding touch to the desktop OS, or at least not anytime soon. The patent is likely to prevent Microsoft and others from running touch modified versions of Windows 7 (useful ones at least), from running on similar hardware to the iPad.
Apple wouldn't want to get in the ring with HP. Best sticking to pushing around the small potatoes. Otherwise Apple wouldn't be pussy footing around with HTC, they'd have gone after Google.
Nice try, but HTC is the one monetizing the IP violation.
All this competition is good as it will force Apple to continue to innovate. The flip side is that I wonder how many of these companies that are introducing their slate devices will be around in 2 years?
NONE of this is competition for the iPad which is substantially different from all of these other copy cat gadgets. All this crowing about the "necessity" of competition is ridiculous. Apple has never NEEDED competition in order to innovate. They've been doing it all along as simply a part of how they do business.
This HP Slate device is going to fall flat on its face due to HP's and Adobe's own arrogance in ignoring the real reasons why Apple isn't allowing Flash.
With the inevitable success of the iPad will follow an accelerated abandonment of Flash in favor of HTML5. It's not that Adobe hasn't been offered many chances by Apple to get its act together. No, it's arrogance that will kill Flash, just as the "arrogance" of the dinosaurs spelled their doom ages ago.
No big deal. Bring it all on. Some will love the iPad, some will like these.
Don't get me wrong, I was hoping that the iPad was going to be a small device running full blown OS X. I won't lie, at first I was a little disappointed that it wasn't that. The more I thought about it though, I understand why Apple didn't go this route - and this is what sets the iPad apart from the HP Slate.
The iPad is designed from the ground up as a simple to use tablet device with superior touch screen capabilities. The performance will be amazing. The battery life will be amazing and the experience will be amazingly simple. Why? It was designed to be like that from the hardware right up to the software, that's why.
The HP Slate is a tablet designed to run Windows. So you'll get Flash. And Air. And all the problems that come with running a full version of Windows on a tiny, underpowered device (slow performance, short battery life, and a desktop OS with touch tacked on).
I believe that Flash will eventually become a "desktop class" standard and consumer devices like the iPad will make do without. Adobe has already released a Connect Pro app for the iPhone and it works super well. Connect is 100% Flash based on the web - so why can't this be done with things like the beloved Flash based games people are prattling on about? Can's convert Flash to an iPhone app? You will be able to do this soon enough. At Max last year Adobe showed off Flash CS5 with an option to export to iPhone (and , I bet, iPad by the time of release).
I don't think Flash will die, but it will change in some way shape or form. It will have to.
Here in lies the problem of Apple showing and telling long before sales started. IMHO Apple should have come out of the box with a ready to sell product. The developers could have been under NDAs or in the dark if Apple really wanted to be secret, the flip from iPhone to iPad development isn't hard and if Apple had all their apps such as iWorks ready plus the 2 x App feature there would have been enough stuff to start with to keep interest until developers got up to speed. Coming out early was a gift for the wannabes and copy cats to confuse the public. Hopefully Apple will be so differentiated by the interface and apps as to make all these worries moot.
It's funny (again) just like with the iPhone. The naysayers claiming Apple doesn't have a chance coming into the market so late. With the iPhone it was so established and entrenched with advanced handsets with companies with decades of cellular knowledge. With the iPad the claims are a limited mobile OS can't possibly compete with a desktop OS and that the market is too small to be profitable anyway. Now we have competitors scrambling to push press releases and make mockups to confuse customers.
I've used Windows XP and Office on a tablet, it's a pretty awful experience, even when using a stylus. I hope that HP is also working on an ARM-based solution using Android, because selling tablets in the thousands of dollars that use a desktop OS wasn't working for the last decade and it won't work for the next.
Lets ignore the battery life aspect...
Flash depends heavily on hover, and click and drag. How many flash (games esp., since this is something that cannot be done in HTML5) are actually compatible with a touch interface?
Those are some of the obstacles with Flash 10.1 for mobiles, but I think the sites will still need to get rewritten once it's released. That seems like an issue. Plus, scrolling a webpage with Flash isn't always great on a powerful system, I have to wonder how smooth that will be on a mobile browser.
The race to tablet supremacy will be based on price... Not Flash support.
That seems pretty spot on. With the iPhone Apple when with the top end, but with the iPad Apple is starting much lower than people expected.
as thick as a #2 pencil.
I don't think a pencil's thickness varies with the shade of graphite.
Yes, Packager for iPhone will let you build AS3/AIR apps and compile them down to native ARM code. There are already Flash-built apps on the App Store. It'll be interesting to see when CS5 is released what you can and can't do from an API perspective.
This is a much better solution than trying to run Flash apps on an touch-based ARM or Atom system.
I never thought I would say this, particularly without it having a camera, but I kind of want one.
sadly, HP is right. from a pure web surfing experience, the HP is indisputably superior. Can't even use the Windows vs. OS X argument here. The kicker will be the battery lives. Steve claims adding flash woudl knock down the battery life from 10 to 2 hours. Something tells my the HP slate is going to have more than 2 hour battery life.
I'm disputing it. Like Steve said, Flash is old technology.
So what is this "something" that told you about battery life. . .a little birdie?
Apple didn't spend millions in R&D in designing their own processors to use in conjunction with the iPad and in conjunction with their battery technology, all with the aim of achieving THEIR battery life to yet squander it on allowing Flash to have it literally drained away.
All this precious "competition" will soon learn their respective lessons as their respective gadgets flop.