New Apple tablet rumor: Larger form factor running Mac OS X - Page 3

I think the BIG thing that people are missing about the apple tablet device is that it will have a doc-able car accessory, and become the centerpiece of the auto-experience.

Think about it... TomTom app, rumored 7 and 10 inch form factors, comments by apple about media devices syncing from the driveway to the TV....

I almost guarantee that the new Tablet will fit in a double-Din dashboard space, and it would not surprise me if car companies that were early adopters of the iPod input (like BMW) will offer an option, or even integrate the mac tablet into their builds. Think of the failed microsoft/ford experiment... and the fact that BMW has actively been researching a way to evolve the driver-to-auto relationship.

I agree with Ireland.

These rumours make most sense to me if the 10 inch screen is for a tablet looking like a giant iPod Touch and running the iPhone OS.

And the 13 and 15 inch touchscreens are for the next quantum leap for the MacBook Pros, combining the standard keyboard with a touchscreen, and running touch-enabled Snow Leopard.

And the next rumour will be touchscreens for the iMac range. You heard it here first.

It might have usb ports if it runs snow leopard, which I don't think it will. If it is marketed as a companion device, it won't have usb ports.

Bening able to use a trackpad does not mean an operating sytem is optimized for touch. Far from it. Whether your input device is a mouse or a track pad, you move something called a cursor. The operating system is optimized for cursor input. You can fine tune cursor position before you make a selection. The cursor design is actually made for small input areas, making it larger would make navigation annoying. Acceleration lets you move the cursor over large distances quickly while maintaining the accuracy needed for more delicate operations. Mice and track pads also have buttons (although Apple hides theirs now). These buttons enable both right and left clicks. Touch screen input has none of those features. A trackpad is a lot closer to a mouse than it is to touch input.

I could see it happening, but it wouldn't be the big thing. It would be something that draws a lot of attention, but that most people don't use.

I still think we are all missing something here. These can't just be tablet Macs. The tablet form factor is inherently non-ergonomic and inelegant. Apple has something else going on here. There has to be a "One more thing" that none of us has thought of or seen.

A plain old tablet Mac is not going to be a money maker. A tablet Mac with that extra special Jobs sauce will. We just don't know what's in the sauce.

To support legacy osx aps until a tablet touch version is released (and in Adobe's case,forever.)

Funny! Thanks!

Yep, you might be onto something here! We could all be surprised when it is actually released!

Bundled iLife touch (my guess this is what is causing the delay), with the availability of iWork touch and a Mobile Me revamped (significantly?).

I agree with your observation about a Kindle size device but the comment about Netbooks is contrary to Apple's deeply held position. You can go all the way back to the Apple ][ versus Commodore 64 days. The price of the Commie 64 kept going down and the number being sold was soaring (much larger than Apple's numbers). The Apple ][ continued to develop while Commodore crashed and burned (a lot of less than compelling detail is being swept under the carpet there).

Apple adjusts prices as costs go down but they have a long history of not participating in markets where lowest price is a determining factor. They might create something with the size and weight of a netbook but don't expect them to offer something that is like current netbooks with the Apple name slapped on. If Apple is right expect enough people to decide that the compromises in netbooks to be wrong for them and purchase with a more expensive Apple product with about the same size and weight.

Cool idea about TomTom, I'm sure the bigger map would make if far more useable.

On the other hand, most countries (except USA I guess?), have a law about not having a TV set on the dashboard of a car (and for good reason too). If you could put a 10" screen on the dash, there would always be some that use it as a TV or media player.

What if...
just by a miracle...

those 13" and 15" models are for macbooks?

am i crazy for saying this?

That would be awesome.


I've always thought that's probable.


Interesting. Reminds me of how the 13" MacBook was "moved" to the MacBook Pro line. Looks like a pretty good lineup to me.

Crazy? You're not even original.

I never mentioned iPhone OS. Mac OS X touch all the way.

hahaha, good one, I laughed so hard with this.

While the speculation is fun, I feel the next big one is about to shoot out of the pipeline.

As with the iMac, iPod and iPhone, I suspect we might be about to see the next thing that nobody expected. If correct, like the iPhone speculation, there may be bits and pieces that are true, but the product itself is going to be something that truly blows folks away. Given Steve's reported obsession with this product, I can't believe it's just a cool tablet with multi-touch and phone capabilities. I look for something that uses the advances that have preceded it, and then makes a huge leap forward.

The Apple tablet needs a program with the power of ChronoSync but without its complicated and scary setup options.

The tablet needs to automatically hook up to your Mac and volunteer questions such as:

I will now Sync your iPhoto pictures, your Mail, your Documents. Are there any in tis list you do not want to Sync?

Right now a lot of Mac owners do not purchase a second one because the second one will not have the information of the first one. There needs to be a fast Firewire Sync.

Somehow this latest rumor make me think the tablet ain't gonna happen!

Excellent analysis!

I don't see an iTab or iPad device running full-blown Mac OS X either. Given (?) the iPhone/iPod form factor and OS interaction, their OS makes more sense running on a handheld device.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, the iPhone/iPod touch OS IS Scalable to different/higher resolutions. Supposedly many apps can be easily modified to run on higher-res screens without massive reprogramming.

I'd also guess that at some point Mac OS X itself will be able to run iPhone/iPod touch OS apps directly on a Mac, I'd further guess that they'd most likely through iTunes.

Geez, but then TV watching would disturb my texting and phone calls while driving.

Me? I still like maps.
My girlfriend said I should never get a GPS, because I'd probably argue with it all the time!

What if the touchscreen replaces the trackpad and keyboard in the bottom case of the 13" and 15" MBs? \

IT IS POSSIBLE. See this, just 450 g and yet a full computer:

OQO model 2+
http://www.oqo.com

The key is weight and portability to carry it ALWAYS with you, on your pocket, bag or purse.

By FULL I mean the possibility to use it for Keynote as PowerPoint presentations as you use a full computer for that. Much as the OQO can be used (see my post, above).

Yes, they exist. See my previous post about OQO.


The fact is that you cannot open and run a Keynote presentation from NATIVE files on an iPhone or iPod touch AND do a presentation via video-out on a videoprojector as you can do with a standard laptop or desktop computer. That is the key. There is a lot that makes Keynote and PowerPoint incimpatible here: they run on Intel, not on ARM, to start with.


As far as I know, that is simply not possible. I have been looking for that for years. Could you please prove me wrong, with links? Please, note that I mean FULL BLOWN Keynote Presentations with transitions, animations, etc from NATIVE ".key" and NATIVE ".ppt" files, and NOT exporting to iPhoto pictures and NOT exporting to movie stream. I want the full and total and native and complete Keynote and PowerPoint experience, as the one you get from a standard laptop or desktop, but with something that is as light as possible and as small as possible. Thanks.

Are you serious?! That is a 5 device and its already 25% more grams that the 400g that was stated should be the weight for a 10 device. Again, its not just weight from a display that is 4x as large as the 5 OQO, but the added weight of the larger chassis, the additional power and battery to run the larger display and everything else. On top of that, the OQO is only one pound for the standard battery; the double capacity battery to give it a half way decent running time. How much does a 9000mAh battery weigh?

Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't it be both? Snow Leopard plus the ability to open multiple iPhone (or actually iPod touch) apps in separate 480x320 windows. Give it GPS and the accelerometers, unlike Macbooks. That way, it would be something unique in the Apple lineup rather than a scaled up iPhone or a scaled down Macbook. Imagine having a bigger screen but still having full access to most of the App Store library (except for the few apps that require 3G support). Not to mention being able to stack windows as we do on our desktops, so iPhone app switching is quick and easy. Plus a lot more CPU power and RAM than the iPhone has so Apple wouldn't have their excuse against multitasking with this device. After all, OS X can already run iPhone apps. That's part of what the iPhone development kit does. Just strip out the programming sections so would-be developers still have to buy the kit.

And I still like that rumor AI reported on of laying it flat on your desk and making it a MultiTouch pointing device for your Mac when it's docked for charging and syncing.

A fully touch version of conputer OSX would be a smart idea. Sooner or later tablet type devices will be the future for computing.

It's round... kinda' like a big frisbee

*

Some [here] say that tablet type devices will always be the future for computing.

I believe that the future is coming... real soon now!

*

In a nutshell that is where I see the problem, that is above ten inches the devices usefulness goes down due to handling issues. There are ways to overcome this but I don't believe the technology is there yet.

What is that tech, well AI powering some of the apps would be a good start. Along with that we need voice input strong enough to handle native speach. That voice input has to work well with both command input and data input. I just don't see the tech being ready for that especially for a 32 bit ARM based device.

So unless the rumors of a falling out between Apple and Intel over Atom are wrong I just don't see any possibility here at all of success. Apple would need a lot of computational horse power to make such a large tablet useful. This simply due to on screen keyboards not cutting the mustard so to speak.

There is one other possibility that might work on a 13" or larger device, that is a slide out keyboard. Now hold on because I know some are likely to go ballistic over that idea, but grab a cold one and sit back a moment and think about it. On screen keyboards suck with respect to large amounts of data entry, that is hard to deny. A slide out can allow for touch typing when it makes sense, it is not a complete replacement for the on screen keyboards. What it does offer you is the ability to create large documents while seated at a desk. Properly sized the keyboard would not take away from full tablet mode usage. Coupled with a wide viewing angle OLED screen this would work well on a desktop.



Dave

Dave

I agree with your comments about having a heavy-lifting computer at home combined with mobile devices.

A number of points come to mind:

We need an alternative to the model of having mobile computers with all our content on them. I like the iPhone model where you side-load 90% of its contents and then 'top-up' via mobile networks. The cloud should be a personal cloud that includes content served from Apple and also content served from our own wifi/internet connected hardware back at base.

The idea of smart content, such as playlists, smart folders, should be used to intelligently decide what content gets side-loaded for use when out of the house/office. Users then tweak their rules accordingly, just like we do with smart playlists.

The side-loading process could include some optimization to reduce data/processing load on the mobile device. The mobile loading could take this even further with MobileMe running full-scale webkit and then reformatting for minimum processing on the mobile device.

The mobile computer then needs less power and can therefore be smaller, cheaper and have better battery life because it doesn't need super-computer processing or massive storage. ( eg: it might only need to process one video format ).

The mobile computer then can be in a number of formats - iPhone, tablet, netbook - whichever suits the user from an ergonomic point of view. The computer back at base can then be a content server, connected to the internet like a time capsule but running OSX. Some might choose the netbook for the home, and an iphone for the road, but the model remains the same.

I think you may be right: iPhone-like interface (no desktop, lo-res, thumb type).

HOWEVER - stylus input cannot be discounted.

Personally I'll stick with Steno pads and paper for now, cheaper anyway and writing shorthand can be fun.

Interesting find in Snow Leopard-- the Keyboard Viewer invoked soft keyboard has been made quite a bit larger.

Maybe I did not explain properly. What I want is a Mac (tablet or clamshell or whatever) that is as light as possible and as small as possible for the Keynote and PowerPoint presentations, because even the MacBook Air is too heavy and too large. The OQO was just an example that such pocketable and light computer is possible.

The 'problem' with the OQO was that miniaturisation has its price.
This thing was not over-priced for the size and features it offered, but few people understood this and were willing to spend $3,000 on a tiny 'pocket gimmick PC'.
That's why OQO went bankrupt.

Apple wouldn't be able to solve that 'smaller components cost more' conundrum either.
zunx, would you still buy a full-featured Mac tablet at $2,000-$2,500+?

To make it cheaper Apple will have to cut either performance, features or battery life. Or all three. And then people will complain that it is 'underpowered' or has miserable battery life
Just look at how big the battery in the MacBook Air is! Imagine this in a tablet. It'll be as big and heavy as the MBA - which defeats the purpose. You might as well get a MBA. And yet many people would like even longer battery life on the MBA...
So if a Mac Tablet will ever run OS X it will likely run it worse than the lowest MacBook Air. Not good.


But here's a thought:

I wouldn't be surprised if some Mac tablet would be a hybrid. Able to run both iPhone OS and Mac OS X.
Initially it might be as simple as the iPhone OS allowing to launch one Mac OS X application. This could be Photoshop, Word or PowerPoint, e.g. something that's not too taxing.
The device would still need an ARM and Intel chip but a single core Intel chip might be good enough to run one Mac application on the side.

Alternatively:
Now that Snow Leopard no longer has dual binaries (PowerPC and Intel) there's a spare slot for a new binary type... How about ARM chips?
If Snow Leopard gets compiled for ARM other Mac applications could follow allowing to run dual binary (ARM and Intel) Mac applications on either an Intel Mac or an ARM based tablet Mac.

The AppStore could take care of getting those new dual binary Mac apps to the tablet users.

The current iPhone comes real near to handling all that light weight stuff but a couple of Apple decisions make what could be an ideal device a little short on usability.

This I disagree with completely. One of the biggest short comings with iPhone is the inability to store stuff on board for easy access when you can't get a network connection. I don't care if that is a 3G or Wifi connection, the lack of easy access to the devices file system is a huge negative when it comes to professional uses. I currently have both the iDisk and the Evernote app installed and neither one of them really solve the problem.

As to space, demand there will only grow, in fact I can see people becoming more demanding of Apple not less.

That is fine for media and such but what if you have a whole hierarchy of business data you want to transfer over and maintain structure? Or for that matter pics you don't want to have shrunk because somebody at Apple thinks it is a good idea? The problem is there are lots of examples where canned functions don't work.

What would make a huge difference is if one could simply designate a directory structure for transfer and have that accessible to apps. It would make iPhone/Touch one hell of a lot more useful for business use and even for the storage of personal data such as photos.

Personally I don't know what Apple was thinking with respect to shrinking photos before transfer to the Touch devices. I mean really you don't expect your Mac to shrink photos due to the screen size there.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. In any event what could be easier than simply transferring the data you have nicely set up on your Mac over to the Touch device. It shouldn't be anymore difficult than a right click and a menu selection.

I have a whole bunch of smaller and cheaper devices, PDAs and such, that I never really used. The reason is clear the extra power on the iPhone and the much better interface makes for a finer experience.

Its funny that this should come up but I was cleaning out my desk yesterday and found two of those devices that I never really adopted. They can be held up as perfect examples of what Apple shouldn't do. If anything the iPhone/Touch need to be more powerfully and more user accessible. That includes not just more on board flash be all around improvements.

I bought my laptop before iPhone and can honestly say it has changed my opinion about the need for a laptop. I'm not sure what side of the fence I sit on right now but if Apple added the ability for Safari to save files locally and gave me better access to the file system, including the ability to store full size pictures it wold very much tip the scales in favor of getting rid of the laptop. The thing is right now I can't use the iPhone to back up my Camera on a trip or even to save the camera images to the net. I/m sure an app could be written for that but there is an issue of a lack of ports.

In a nutshell iPhone needs to be more powerful and accessible to do those sorts of things. At that point the need for a laptop really starts to dwindle.



Dave

We really don't know the specifics of that. A company shouldn't go bankrupt because one item fails in the marketplace. OQO had a couple of products from what I understand.

Now this I can disagree on because they do have an opportunity here to actually pack a lot of power into their tablet at a low cost. That depends very much upon a high integration SoC ARM based controller from PA Semi. Realistically they should be able to integrate all the major silicon on to one die and have only storage devices outside of that chip. There would likely be a few analog components too, but all of this can be stuffed easily on to a Touch sized PC board.

Or just look at the Touch as an example of Apple putting an entire printed circuit (pc) into a handheld package. I'd be shocked to find the pc board there costing them more than $100.

Lets not look at that as Mac Book Air was an extreme failure. In any event this goes to what you expect out of an Apple tablet. If you expect an i86 and Mac OS/X then yeah you will be disappointed with all three things you touched upon. However if you are interested in an ARM based device none of those issues will be a problem. Apple purchased PA Semi for a reason and I would have to think tablets are the area where they could be really impressive.

True. That is why I think it will be ARM based and run a modified version of Touch.

Sounds good but it would fail on power usage plus it is a design kludge.

The last thing Apple needs is dual binaries again. Keep the ARM devices on a separate API and there will be no problem.


Dave

The best approach is a four-product matrix:

Mac OS X (Mac).
Mac OS X touch (Mac Tablet).
OS X (iPhone and iPod touch).
iPod OS (standard iPod).

The tablet runs Mac applications, on a touch-tuned Mac OS X, thus the new Intel Atom "Pineview" can do it nicely:

The TDP has been dropped from 16W to 7W, while the average power consumption has been halved to 2W.
http://techwoo.com/intel-atom-pineview-chip-photo

Or wait for Intel Atom Medfield by 2010 to conquer mobile market which is used to be powered by ARM processors:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/1...cessor-by-2010

There are going to be two versions of Medfield, one intended for netbooks, and one intended for smartbooks/smartphones i.e. MIDs [Mobile Internet Devices]. But what is interesting is development of Tunnel Creek, a "preview for Medfield". Tunnel Creek is a 45nm CPU targeting a TDP of mere 3W. Intel already sampled this CPU to its valuable partners (Apple Mac Tablet?). One thing is certain: expect a true mobile revolution coming in the second half of 2010:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...idias-ion.aspx

That is!

Just to clarify two points here

1) Snow Leopard still has PPC binaries for Rosetta, which is still supported. Just go to any system framework, for example, and do 'file CoreFoundataion' for example and you get...

CoreFoundation (for architecture x86_64)tMach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64
CoreFoundation (for architecture i386)tMach-O dynamically linked shared library i386
CoreFoundation (for architecture ppc7400)tMach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc


2) Fat Binaries are not restricted to two architectures as shown above. You had multiple architectures stitched together if that makes sense for your distribution. Above you have PPC, i386 (32 bit) and x86_64 (64 bit).