or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › New Apple tablet rumor: Larger form factor running Mac OS X
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Apple tablet rumor: Larger form factor running Mac OS X - Page 3

post #81 of 164
I think the BIG thing that people are missing about the apple tablet device is that it will have a doc-able car accessory, and become the centerpiece of the auto-experience.

Think about it... TomTom app, rumored 7 and 10 inch form factors, comments by apple about media devices syncing from the driveway to the TV....

I almost guarantee that the new Tablet will fit in a double-Din dashboard space, and it would not surprise me if car companies that were early adopters of the iPod input (like BMW) will offer an option, or even integrate the mac tablet into their builds. Think of the failed microsoft/ford experiment... and the fact that BMW has actively been researching a way to evolve the driver-to-auto relationship.
post #82 of 164
I agree with Ireland.

These rumours make most sense to me if the 10 inch screen is for a tablet looking like a giant iPod Touch and running the iPhone OS.

And the 13 and 15 inch touchscreens are for the next quantum leap for the MacBook Pros, combining the standard keyboard with a touchscreen, and running touch-enabled Snow Leopard.

And the next rumour will be touchscreens for the iMac range. You heard it here first.
post #83 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Bet you are wrong.


Does everyone on here use a desktop and mice or something, because I don't understand why people are going on about a lack of pointing accuracy inherent in fingers and OSX not having a touch interface and OSX apps all having to be rewritten for a touch interface.

I use a MacBook primarily. All the apps on it are already optimised for touch and I already use a touch interface with good accuracy, it's called a track pad. If the track pad surface were as large as the whole screen area, I would have even greater accuracy than I have now, which suffices for everything I do, including Photoshop manipulations...

It might have usb ports if it runs snow leopard, which I don't think it will. If it is marketed as a companion device, it won't have usb ports.

Bening able to use a trackpad does not mean an operating sytem is optimized for touch. Far from it. Whether your input device is a mouse or a track pad, you move something called a cursor. The operating system is optimized for cursor input. You can fine tune cursor position before you make a selection. The cursor design is actually made for small input areas, making it larger would make navigation annoying. Acceleration lets you move the cursor over large distances quickly while maintaining the accuracy needed for more delicate operations. Mice and track pads also have buttons (although Apple hides theirs now). These buttons enable both right and left clicks. Touch screen input has none of those features. A trackpad is a lot closer to a mouse than it is to touch input.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #84 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico View Post

I think the BIG thing that people are missing about the apple tablet device is that it will have a doc-able car accessory, and become the centerpiece of the auto-experience.

Think about it... TomTom app, rumored 7 and 10 inch form factors, comments by apple about media devices syncing from the driveway to the TV....

I almost guarantee that the new Tablet will fit in a double-Din dashboard space, and it would not surprise me if car companies that were early adopters of the iPod input (like BMW) will offer an option, or even integrate the mac tablet into their builds. Think of the failed microsoft/ford experiment... and the fact that BMW has actively been researching a way to evolve the driver-to-auto relationship.

I could see it happening, but it wouldn't be the big thing. It would be something that draws a lot of attention, but that most people don't use.
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
Reply
post #85 of 164
I still think we are all missing something here. These can't just be tablet Macs. The tablet form factor is inherently non-ergonomic and inelegant. Apple has something else going on here. There has to be a "One more thing" that none of us has thought of or seen.

A plain old tablet Mac is not going to be a money maker. A tablet Mac with that extra special Jobs sauce will. We just don't know what's in the sauce.
post #86 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Yeah, but then things are just starting to get weird. If you are going to need mice, trackpad, pens and keyboards, why do you not just use a laptop? I always thought the appeal of a tablet is that you can do the work right there on the screen yourself...

To support legacy osx aps until a tablet touch version is released (and in Adobe's case,forever.)
post #87 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

More importantly the other half have gazoombas!

Funny! Thanks!
post #88 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

I still think we are all missing something here. These can't just be tablet Macs. The tablet form factor is inherently non-ergonomic and inelegant. Apple has something else going on here. There has to be a "One more thing" that none of us has thought of or seen.

A plain old tablet Mac is not going to be a money maker. A tablet Mac with that extra special Jobs sauce will. We just don't know what's in the sauce.

Yep, you might be onto something here! We could all be surprised when it is actually released!
post #89 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilw View Post

I still haven't heard a credible suggestion of what is the "secret sauce" that's going to make this tablet (at whatever size) succeed where all past attempts have failed. It's certainly a possibility that the secret will simply be to get all the details "just right", but I am more inclined to believe that the tablet will need a fundamentally new feature or application to make it viable.

My hope is that the tablet has a big surprise hiding in it, and that the rumors and predictions have been as narrow short-sighted as the original predictions of the iPhone were.

We shall see soon, I hope. I'm exhausted from following this rumor for multiple years.

Bundled iLife touch (my guess this is what is causing the delay), with the availability of iWork touch and a Mobile Me revamped (significantly?).
post #90 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I hope it's about Kindle sized. That's a nice form factor I think and if Kindle were all screen, as opposed to having a keyboard, it would look lovely.

I'm sure Apple must be working on something - the amount of money being spent on Netbooks is too large to ignore!

I agree with your observation about a Kindle size device but the comment about Netbooks is contrary to Apple's deeply held position. You can go all the way back to the Apple ][ versus Commodore 64 days. The price of the Commie 64 kept going down and the number being sold was soaring (much larger than Apple's numbers). The Apple ][ continued to develop while Commodore crashed and burned (a lot of less than compelling detail is being swept under the carpet there).

Apple adjusts prices as costs go down but they have a long history of not participating in markets where lowest price is a determining factor. They might create something with the size and weight of a netbook but don't expect them to offer something that is like current netbooks with the Apple name slapped on. If Apple is right expect enough people to decide that the compromises in netbooks to be wrong for them and purchase with a more expensive Apple product with about the same size and weight.
post #91 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico View Post

I think the BIG thing that people are missing about the apple tablet device is that it will have a doc-able car accessory, and become the centerpiece of the auto-experience.

Think about it... TomTom app, rumored 7 and 10 inch form factors, comments by apple about media devices syncing from the driveway to the TV. ....

Cool idea about TomTom, I'm sure the bigger map would make if far more useable.

On the other hand, most countries (except USA I guess?), have a law about not having a TV set on the dashboard of a car (and for good reason too). If you could put a 10" screen on the dash, there would always be some that use it as a TV or media player.
post #92 of 164
What if...
just by a miracle...

those 13" and 15" models are for macbooks?

am i crazy for saying this?
post #93 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

All I gotta say is that if Steve doesn't open the Keynote intro of these new tablets with a comprehensive rundown of each and every memorable tablet rumor going back as far as they can, it would be a crying shame.

Could you imagine, all the faked photoshop photos, all of the doctored videos (as I examine the iWalk sitting on my desk) all the 'I'm making the plastics now' references.

Tell me that wouldn't be a great lead in with Steve on the stage...

That would be awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I'll say it again: To be unveiled 9/09 by SJ and available 1/10. Announced then released just like the iPhone and AppleTV. Start the hype machine early.

I've always thought that's probable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmlxix View Post

as far as the product positioning issue goesIf I were in charge.

The iPod Touch should be taken out of the iPod brand family, leaving the Classic, Nano, and Shuffle, and put into the new i[insert new name here] brand family. This new family will debut with the current 3.5 model as well as a 6-7 model and a 9-10 model. These devices will have blue tooth, wifi, 1 USB, port, and 3G data in the first or second generation. OLED will be in the first or second generation. OLED and larger devices will allow for more battery life.

They will run iPhone OS, which will allow the ability to run more apps simultaneously (but not unlimited multitasking yet) and have a simple file manager. These 2 new features will not be given to the iPhone so as to not compromise the batteries in the iPhones and also to differentiate the brand families. This new product family will have an app for that from day 1even if running on a smaller window on a larger device until the devs step in. By the second generation iLife and iWork will be ported over.

This new family will differentiated from iPhone, iPod, and MacBook/Pro. The only question then is does the MacBook (white book) remain the sole member of its family. For now, yes. Keep it as a decent, but not stellar intro laptop. Knock off $50-100, and bring back the candy colors.

Interesting. Reminds me of how the 13" MacBook was "moved" to the MacBook Pro line. Looks like a pretty good lineup to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
Reply
post #94 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by iijuanii View Post

What if...
just by a miracle...

those 13" and 15" models are for macbooks?

am i crazy for saying this?

Crazy? You're not even original.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #95 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestByfleet View Post

I agree with Ireland.

These rumours make most sense to me if the 10 inch screen is for a tablet looking like a giant iPod Touch and running the iPhone OS.

I never mentioned iPhone OS. Mac OS X touch all the way.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #96 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post

What if El Jobso himself told you?

hahaha, good one, I laughed so hard with this.
post #97 of 164
While the speculation is fun, I feel the next big one is about to shoot out of the pipeline.

As with the iMac, iPod and iPhone, I suspect we might be about to see the next thing that nobody expected. If correct, like the iPhone speculation, there may be bits and pieces that are true, but the product itself is going to be something that truly blows folks away. Given Steve's reported obsession with this product, I can't believe it's just a cool tablet with multi-touch and phone capabilities. I look for something that uses the advances that have preceded it, and then makes a huge leap forward.
post #98 of 164
The Apple tablet needs a program with the power of ChronoSync but without its complicated and scary setup options.

The tablet needs to automatically hook up to your Mac and volunteer questions such as:

I will now Sync your iPhoto pictures, your Mail, your Documents. Are there any in tis list you do not want to Sync?

Right now a lot of Mac owners do not purchase a second one because the second one will not have the information of the first one. There needs to be a fast Firewire Sync.
post #99 of 164
Somehow this latest rumor make me think the tablet ain't gonna happen!

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

Reply

iPod nano 5th Gen 8GB Orange, iPad 3rd Gen WiFi 32GB White
MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.66GHz 8GB RAM 120GB Intel 320M
Mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz 8GB RAM, iPhone 5 32GB Black

Reply
post #100 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Exactly.

Excellent analysis!

I don't see an iTab or iPad device running full-blown Mac OS X either. Given (?) the iPhone/iPod form factor and OS interaction, their OS makes more sense running on a handheld device.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, the iPhone/iPod touch OS IS Scalable to different/higher resolutions. Supposedly many apps can be easily modified to run on higher-res screens without massive reprogramming.

I'd also guess that at some point Mac OS X itself will be able to run iPhone/iPod touch OS apps directly on a Mac, I'd further guess that they'd most likely through iTunes.
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
Reply
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
Reply
post #101 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Cool idea about TomTom, I'm sure the bigger map would make if far more useable.

On the other hand, most countries (except USA I guess?), have a law about not having a TV set on the dashboard of a car (and for good reason too). If you could put a 10" screen on the dash, there would always be some that use it as a TV or media player.

Geez, but then TV watching would disturb my texting and phone calls while driving.

Me? I still like maps.
My girlfriend said I should never get a GPS, because I'd probably argue with it all the time!
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
Reply
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
Reply
post #102 of 164
What if the touchscreen replaces the trackpad and keyboard in the bottom case of the 13" and 15" MBs? \
post #103 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Why does it have to be one of the other? Making iPhone OS X read Keynote and PowerPoint and have them output to an external monitor dont require Mac OS X.

And you want this device with a reported 10 display to also be under a pound? The iPhone is 1/3rd that weight and it only has a 3.5 display, or about 1/8th the display size and footprint. Then youd have more components to get this faster HW to run Mac OS X and all those ports you want, on top of the fact that a larger device will need more structural support. That just isnt physically possible in this day and age.

IT IS POSSIBLE. See this, just 450 g and yet a full computer:

OQO model 2+
http://www.oqo.com

The key is weight and portability to carry it ALWAYS with you, on your pocket, bag or purse.
post #104 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'll just add, that the iPhone OS is neither "crippled" or "limited", it's merely optimized for a small device with limited memory and CPU resources.

An OS for a a larger device need not be "full OS X" to be appropriate to that device and very powerful in its own right, as befits a machine with more screen real estate, memory and CPU resources than an iPhone.

In fact, if by "full OS X" we mean UI and all, with tap events substituting for mouse and keyboard events, that would be terrible.

By FULL I mean the possibility to use it for Keynote as PowerPoint presentations as you use a full computer for that. Much as the OQO can be used (see my post, above).
post #105 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The parts of Mac OS-X that are required for all the things you say you want the tablet to do are already present in the iPhone variety of OS-X. You just don't need "full-blown" OS-X to do what you want to do.

Yes, they exist. See my previous post about OQO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

OS-X is OS-X. When we are talking iPhone vs. desktop versions we are just talking about the GUI, not the capabilities of the system itself. Both can open and run files and display them on screens etc. There is nothing about Keynote or PowerPoint that makes them incompatible with the iPhone variety of OS-X and "presentation software" in general does not tax the CPU or the hardware even as much as the average iPhone game does.

The fact is that you cannot open and run a Keynote presentation from NATIVE files on an iPhone or iPod touch AND do a presentation via video-out on a videoprojector as you can do with a standard laptop or desktop computer. That is the key. There is a lot that makes Keynote and PowerPoint incimpatible here: they run on Intel, not on ARM, to start with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The current iPhone can already connect to a projector and can already display keynote presentations without any problem at all.

As far as I know, that is simply not possible. I have been looking for that for years. Could you please prove me wrong, with links? Please, note that I mean FULL BLOWN Keynote Presentations with transitions, animations, etc from NATIVE ".key" and NATIVE ".ppt" files, and NOT exporting to iPhoto pictures and NOT exporting to movie stream. I want the full and total and native and complete Keynote and PowerPoint experience, as the one you get from a standard laptop or desktop, but with something that is as light as possible and as small as possible. Thanks.
post #106 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

IT IS POSSIBLE. See this, just 450 g and yet a full computer:

OQO model 2+
http://www.oqo.com

The key is weight and portability to carry it ALWAYS with you, on your pocket, bag or purse.

Are you serious?! That is a 5 device and its already 25% more grams that the 400g that was stated should be the weight for a 10 device. Again, its not just weight from a display that is 4x as large as the 5 OQO, but the added weight of the larger chassis, the additional power and battery to run the larger display and everything else. On top of that, the OQO is only one pound for the standard battery; the double capacity battery to give it a half way decent running time. How much does a 9000mAh battery weigh?
post #107 of 164
Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't it be both? Snow Leopard plus the ability to open multiple iPhone (or actually iPod touch) apps in separate 480x320 windows. Give it GPS and the accelerometers, unlike Macbooks. That way, it would be something unique in the Apple lineup rather than a scaled up iPhone or a scaled down Macbook. Imagine having a bigger screen but still having full access to most of the App Store library (except for the few apps that require 3G support). Not to mention being able to stack windows as we do on our desktops, so iPhone app switching is quick and easy. Plus a lot more CPU power and RAM than the iPhone has so Apple wouldn't have their excuse against multitasking with this device. After all, OS X can already run iPhone apps. That's part of what the iPhone development kit does. Just strip out the programming sections so would-be developers still have to buy the kit.

And I still like that rumor AI reported on of laying it flat on your desk and making it a MultiTouch pointing device for your Mac when it's docked for charging and syncing.
post #108 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

My money's on OSX.

As someone wrote a while back, Snow Leopard has technologies that will make a tablet much nicer to use. Expose in the dock, for example. Smaller size, for example.

A fully touch version of conputer OSX would be a smart idea. Sooner or later tablet type devices will be the future for computing.
post #109 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

I still think we are all missing something here. These can't just be tablet Macs. The tablet form factor is inherently non-ergonomic and inelegant. Apple has something else going on here. There has to be a "One more thing" that none of us has thought of or seen.

A plain old tablet Mac is not going to be a money maker. A tablet Mac with that extra special Jobs sauce will. We just don't know what's in the sauce.

It's round... kinda' like a big frisbee

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #110 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

A fully touch version of conputer OSX would be a smart idea. Sooner or later tablet type devices will be the future for computing.

Some [here] say that tablet type devices will always be the future for computing.

I believe that the future is coming... real soon now!

*
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #111 of 164
In a nutshell that is where I see the problem, that is above ten inches the devices usefulness goes down due to handling issues. There are ways to overcome this but I don't believe the technology is there yet.

What is that tech, well AI powering some of the apps would be a good start. Along with that we need voice input strong enough to handle native speach. That voice input has to work well with both command input and data input. I just don't see the tech being ready for that especially for a 32 bit ARM based device.

So unless the rumors of a falling out between Apple and Intel over Atom are wrong I just don't see any possibility here at all of success. Apple would need a lot of computational horse power to make such a large tablet useful. This simply due to on screen keyboards not cutting the mustard so to speak.

There is one other possibility that might work on a 13" or larger device, that is a slide out keyboard. Now hold on because I know some are likely to go ballistic over that idea, but grab a cold one and sit back a moment and think about it. On screen keyboards suck with respect to large amounts of data entry, that is hard to deny. A slide out can allow for touch typing when it makes sense, it is not a complete replacement for the on screen keyboards. What it does offer you is the ability to create large documents while seated at a desk. Properly sized the keyboard would not take away from full tablet mode usage. Coupled with a wide viewing angle OLED screen this would work well on a desktop.



Dave

Dave
post #112 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

First off I'm not a programmer, but it does seem to me Apple is taking a long range approach...First you organize OSX by decreasing it's footprint with Snow Leopard (Hello MS?) and now it becomes a manageable 'core' to attack the fastest growing segment in tech, mobile computing.

Just as there are those people who need the MacPro and MacBookPro for processing pwr one has to think the majority of computer/smartphone users do basic computing tasks, email, web browsing, photos, music, a little video, basic word processing/desktop publishing and maybe rudimentary web design and spreadsheet work. Even in the business class, I have to think the majority of the work is rudimentary.

Therefore, do the 'heavy lifting' so to speak on your 30" iMac and do your communication/presentations from your Tablet/iPhone.

Thoughts?

I agree with your comments about having a heavy-lifting computer at home combined with mobile devices.

A number of points come to mind:

We need an alternative to the model of having mobile computers with all our content on them. I like the iPhone model where you side-load 90% of its contents and then 'top-up' via mobile networks. The cloud should be a personal cloud that includes content served from Apple and also content served from our own wifi/internet connected hardware back at base.

The idea of smart content, such as playlists, smart folders, should be used to intelligently decide what content gets side-loaded for use when out of the house/office. Users then tweak their rules accordingly, just like we do with smart playlists.

The side-loading process could include some optimization to reduce data/processing load on the mobile device. The mobile loading could take this even further with MobileMe running full-scale webkit and then reformatting for minimum processing on the mobile device.

The mobile computer then needs less power and can therefore be smaller, cheaper and have better battery life because it doesn't need super-computer processing or massive storage. ( eg: it might only need to process one video format ).

The mobile computer then can be in a number of formats - iPhone, tablet, netbook - whichever suits the user from an ergonomic point of view. The computer back at base can then be a content server, connected to the internet like a time capsule but running OSX. Some might choose the netbook for the home, and an iphone for the road, but the model remains the same.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply
post #113 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

..the successful tablet computer would be:
  • ...
  • easy text entry possible without putting it down (thumb typing)
  • custom low-res interface software (not a desktop metaphor)...
If you then look at Apple's patents this is pretty much exactly what they describe. Imagine a 6x9 device (proportions of a Steno pad), but it looks like an iPhone. ...

Now *that* is a (possibly) successful tablet device, whereas a 13" tablet running regular desktop OS like Snow Leopard is pretty much exactly what has been tried a hundred times already and known to be a failure.

Who knows if they are even making a tablet, but if they are, it will be more like an iPhone than it will be like a laptop.

I think you may be right: iPhone-like interface (no desktop, lo-res, thumb type).

HOWEVER - stylus input cannot be discounted.

Personally I'll stick with Steno pads and paper for now, cheaper anyway and writing shorthand can be fun.
post #114 of 164
Interesting find in Snow Leopard-- the Keyboard Viewer invoked soft keyboard has been made quite a bit larger.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #115 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logisticaldron View Post

Are you serious?! That is a 5 device and its already 25% more grams that the 400g that was stated should be the weight for a 10 device. Again, its not just weight from a display that is 4x as large as the 5 OQO, but the added weight of the larger chassis, the additional power and battery to run the larger display and everything else. On top of that, the OQO is only one pound for the standard battery; the double capacity battery to give it a half way decent running time. How much does a 9000mAh battery weigh?

Maybe I did not explain properly. What I want is a Mac (tablet or clamshell or whatever) that is as light as possible and as small as possible for the Keynote and PowerPoint presentations, because even the MacBook Air is too heavy and too large. The OQO was just an example that such pocketable and light computer is possible.
post #116 of 164
The 'problem' with the OQO was that miniaturisation has its price.
This thing was not over-priced for the size and features it offered, but few people understood this and were willing to spend $3,000 on a tiny 'pocket gimmick PC'.
That's why OQO went bankrupt.

Apple wouldn't be able to solve that 'smaller components cost more' conundrum either.
zunx, would you still buy a full-featured Mac tablet at $2,000-$2,500+?

To make it cheaper Apple will have to cut either performance, features or battery life. Or all three. And then people will complain that it is 'underpowered' or has miserable battery life
Just look at how big the battery in the MacBook Air is! Imagine this in a tablet. It'll be as big and heavy as the MBA - which defeats the purpose. You might as well get a MBA. And yet many people would like even longer battery life on the MBA...
So if a Mac Tablet will ever run OS X it will likely run it worse than the lowest MacBook Air. Not good.


But here's a thought:

I wouldn't be surprised if some Mac tablet would be a hybrid. Able to run both iPhone OS and Mac OS X.
Initially it might be as simple as the iPhone OS allowing to launch one Mac OS X application. This could be Photoshop, Word or PowerPoint, e.g. something that's not too taxing.
The device would still need an ARM and Intel chip but a single core Intel chip might be good enough to run one Mac application on the side.

Alternatively:
Now that Snow Leopard no longer has dual binaries (PowerPC and Intel) there's a spare slot for a new binary type... How about ARM chips?
If Snow Leopard gets compiled for ARM other Mac applications could follow allowing to run dual binary (ARM and Intel) Mac applications on either an Intel Mac or an ARM based tablet Mac.

The AppStore could take care of getting those new dual binary Mac apps to the tablet users.
post #117 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

I agree with your comments about having a heavy-lifting computer at home combined with mobile devices.

The current iPhone comes real near to handling all that light weight stuff but a couple of Apple decisions make what could be an ideal device a little short on usability.
Quote:

A number of points come to mind:

We need an alternative to the model of having mobile computers with all our content on them. I like the iPhone model where you side-load 90% of its contents and then 'top-up' via mobile networks. The cloud should be a personal cloud that includes content served from Apple and also content served from our own wifi/internet connected hardware back at base.

This I disagree with completely. One of the biggest short comings with iPhone is the inability to store stuff on board for easy access when you can't get a network connection. I don't care if that is a 3G or Wifi connection, the lack of easy access to the devices file system is a huge negative when it comes to professional uses. I currently have both the iDisk and the Evernote app installed and neither one of them really solve the problem.

As to space, demand there will only grow, in fact I can see people becoming more demanding of Apple not less.
Quote:

The idea of smart content, such as playlists, smart folders, should be used to intelligently decide what content gets side-loaded for use when out of the house/office. Users then tweak their rules accordingly, just like we do with smart playlists.

That is fine for media and such but what if you have a whole hierarchy of business data you want to transfer over and maintain structure? Or for that matter pics you don't want to have shrunk because somebody at Apple thinks it is a good idea? The problem is there are lots of examples where canned functions don't work.

What would make a huge difference is if one could simply designate a directory structure for transfer and have that accessible to apps. It would make iPhone/Touch one hell of a lot more useful for business use and even for the storage of personal data such as photos.

Personally I don't know what Apple was thinking with respect to shrinking photos before transfer to the Touch devices. I mean really you don't expect your Mac to shrink photos due to the screen size there.
Quote:

The side-loading process could include some optimization to reduce data/processing load on the mobile device. The mobile loading could take this even further with MobileMe running full-scale webkit and then reformatting for minimum processing on the mobile device.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. In any event what could be easier than simply transferring the data you have nicely set up on your Mac over to the Touch device. It shouldn't be anymore difficult than a right click and a menu selection.
Quote:
The mobile computer then needs less power and can therefore be smaller, cheaper and have better battery life because it doesn't need super-computer processing or massive storage. ( eg: it might only need to process one video format ).

I have a whole bunch of smaller and cheaper devices, PDAs and such, that I never really used. The reason is clear the extra power on the iPhone and the much better interface makes for a finer experience.

Its funny that this should come up but I was cleaning out my desk yesterday and found two of those devices that I never really adopted. They can be held up as perfect examples of what Apple shouldn't do. If anything the iPhone/Touch need to be more powerfully and more user accessible. That includes not just more on board flash be all around improvements.
Quote:

The mobile computer then can be in a number of formats - iPhone, tablet, netbook - whichever suits the user from an ergonomic point of view. The computer back at base can then be a content server, connected to the internet like a time capsule but running OSX. Some might choose the netbook for the home, and an iphone for the road, but the model remains the same.

I bought my laptop before iPhone and can honestly say it has changed my opinion about the need for a laptop. I'm not sure what side of the fence I sit on right now but if Apple added the ability for Safari to save files locally and gave me better access to the file system, including the ability to store full size pictures it wold very much tip the scales in favor of getting rid of the laptop. The thing is right now I can't use the iPhone to back up my Camera on a trip or even to save the camera images to the net. I/m sure an app could be written for that but there is an issue of a lack of ports.

In a nutshell iPhone needs to be more powerful and accessible to do those sorts of things. At that point the need for a laptop really starts to dwindle.



Dave
post #118 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

The 'problem' with the OQO was that miniaturisation has its price.
This thing was not over-priced for the size and features it offered, but few people understood this and were willing to spend $3,000 on a tiny 'pocket gimmick PC'.
That's why OQO went bankrupt.

We really don't know the specifics of that. A company shouldn't go bankrupt because one item fails in the marketplace. OQO had a couple of products from what I understand.
Quote:
Apple wouldn't be able to solve that 'smaller components cost more' conundrum either.
zunx, would you still buy a full-featured Mac tablet at $2,000-$2,500+?

Now this I can disagree on because they do have an opportunity here to actually pack a lot of power into their tablet at a low cost. That depends very much upon a high integration SoC ARM based controller from PA Semi. Realistically they should be able to integrate all the major silicon on to one die and have only storage devices outside of that chip. There would likely be a few analog components too, but all of this can be stuffed easily on to a Touch sized PC board.

Or just look at the Touch as an example of Apple putting an entire printed circuit (pc) into a handheld package. I'd be shocked to find the pc board there costing them more than $100.
Quote:

To make it cheaper Apple will have to cut either performance, features or battery life. Or all three. And then people will complain that it is 'underpowered' or has miserable battery life
Just look at how big the battery in the MacBook Air is! Imagine this in a tablet. It'll be as big and heavy as the MBA - which defeats the purpose.

Lets not look at that as Mac Book Air was an extreme failure. In any event this goes to what you expect out of an Apple tablet. If you expect an i86 and Mac OS/X then yeah you will be disappointed with all three things you touched upon. However if you are interested in an ARM based device none of those issues will be a problem. Apple purchased PA Semi for a reason and I would have to think tablets are the area where they could be really impressive.
Quote:
You might as well get a MBA. And yet many people would like even longer battery life on the MBA...
So if a Mac Tablet will ever run OS X it will likely run it worse than the lowest MacBook Air. Not good.

True. That is why I think it will be ARM based and run a modified version of Touch.
Quote:
But here's a thought:

I wouldn't be surprised if some Mac tablet would be a hybrid. Able to run both iPhone OS and Mac OS X.
Initially it might be as simple as the iPhone OS allowing to launch one Mac OS X application. This could be Photoshop, Word or PowerPoint, e.g. something that's not too taxing.
The device would still need an ARM and Intel chip but a single core Intel chip might be good enough to run one Mac application on the side.

Sounds good but it would fail on power usage plus it is a design kludge.
Quote:
Alternatively:
Now that Snow Leopard no longer has dual binaries (PowerPC and Intel) there's a spare slot for a new binary type... How about ARM chips?
If Snow Leopard gets compiled for ARM other Mac applications could follow allowing to run dual binary (ARM and Intel) Mac applications on either an Intel Mac or an ARM based tablet Mac.

The AppStore could take care of getting those new dual binary Mac apps to the tablet users.

The last thing Apple needs is dual binaries again. Keep the ARM devices on a separate API and there will be no problem.


Dave
post #119 of 164
The best approach is a four-product matrix:

Mac OS X (Mac).
Mac OS X touch (Mac Tablet).
OS X (iPhone and iPod touch).
iPod OS (standard iPod).

The tablet runs Mac applications, on a touch-tuned Mac OS X, thus the new Intel Atom "Pineview" can do it nicely:

The TDP has been dropped from 16W to 7W, while the average power consumption has been halved to 2W.
http://techwoo.com/intel-atom-pineview-chip-photo

Or wait for Intel Atom Medfield by 2010 to conquer mobile market which is used to be powered by ARM processors:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/1...cessor-by-2010

There are going to be two versions of Medfield, one intended for netbooks, and one intended for smartbooks/smartphones i.e. MIDs [Mobile Internet Devices]. But what is interesting is development of Tunnel Creek, a "preview for Medfield". Tunnel Creek is a 45nm CPU targeting a TDP of mere 3W. Intel already sampled this CPU to its valuable partners (Apple Mac Tablet?). One thing is certain: expect a true mobile revolution coming in the second half of 2010:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...idias-ion.aspx

That is!
post #120 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Alternatively:
Now that Snow Leopard no longer has dual binaries (PowerPC and Intel) there's a spare slot for a new binary type... How about ARM chips?
If Snow Leopard gets compiled for ARM other Mac applications could follow allowing to run dual binary (ARM and Intel) Mac applications on either an Intel Mac or an ARM based tablet Mac.

The AppStore could take care of getting those new dual binary Mac apps to the tablet users.

Just to clarify two points here

1) Snow Leopard still has PPC binaries for Rosetta, which is still supported. Just go to any system framework, for example, and do 'file CoreFoundataion' for example and you get...

CoreFoundation (for architecture x86_64)tMach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64
CoreFoundation (for architecture i386)tMach-O dynamically linked shared library i386
CoreFoundation (for architecture ppc7400)tMach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc


2) Fat Binaries are not restricted to two architectures as shown above. You had multiple architectures stitched together if that makes sense for your distribution. Above you have PPC, i386 (32 bit) and x86_64 (64 bit).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › New Apple tablet rumor: Larger form factor running Mac OS X