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Notre Dame and "Fighting Irish"...

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
This crossed my mind earlier today and I was curious about it:

We're all aware of recent efforts by some citizens to do away with the usage of certain ethnicities or cultures in sports logos or mascots.

We've all heard the brouhaha over the Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves and the Washington Redskins.

Currently, here in San Diego, there's a big debate raging over the San Diego State Aztecs and their football mascot "Monty Montezuma" and so forth.

Hell, even my hometown of Chattanooga, Tennessee, whose college UTC (the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga) has gone by the name the Moccasins (or simply Mocs) for their football, basketball, etc. teams, recently changed their longtime name/logo/mascot to the supremely ridiculous UTC Mockingbirds and now their logo is - I'm not kidding - <a href="http://www.gomocs.com/" target="_blank">a bird wearing a train engineer's outfit</a>, because as you all know, the legend and lore of the Chattanooga Choo-Choo looms heavy in the cu...



But I digress...

Anyway, I was simply curious if there is a movement among certain individuals or groups to change Notre Dame's name? Either a bunch of politically correct types at the university itself, or alumni or self-appointed community do-gooders, etc.

Not living in the general region and knowing no one who actually attends Notre Dame, I'm left out of the loop.

Does "Fighting Irish" not meet some sort of criteria for being offensive or in out-of-date bad taste?

I don't know...I'm asking.

Is the flyswatter of political correctness and multiculturalism and sensitivity and all that simply not reach to those institutions whose logo/mascot is of fair skin?

I mean, would the "Fighting Spaniards" or "Raging Asians" be allowed to exist for three seconds in these P.C. times in which we live?

I'm genuinely curious and am NOT asking to stir shit up or be a dick.

I just wonder sometimes what makes somethings the worst thing in the world when applied to some individuals or groups, yet it goes completely unquestioned in other areas.

Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

I'm interested...

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #2 of 22
Well the Irish are quite often stereotyped as being very hot-headed.

I mean, look at their logo, a leprechaun with his dukes up read for a rumble, no doubt sauced up on some Guinness.

Here's the difference: The Irish have a sense of humor. (Another generalization! )

And it's not negative, it's not like the San Deigo Lazy Blacks or Cleveland Stingy Jews.

Death to the Irish!

[edit]

As for all the Indian issues, I don't get them. I think they're just pissed off about being shit on back in the day and they think the mascots are a way of shitting on them. I disagree. No more than the Chicago White Sox make me want to burn my foot coverings.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #3 of 22
I've always wondered how one arrives at the nickname: the Demon Deacons.
post #4 of 22
I suspect it's not as big a deal because "Irish" is the proper name for people of that nationality. Call someone Irish and they often take pride.

Indian and especially Redskin are names historically imposed on Native Americans by other (often hostile) people.

My high school's nickname happens to be the Indians, and me and all my classmates were anything but. I thought of the name as something to live up to, as to me the classic image of Native Americans is proud, noble people.

If it truly does offend someone, though, I could live with the Forest City Warriors. We played a school with a high Sioux population and wore older jerseys with our town name instead of "Indians" and were the darling of the local press.

Just my thoughts,

Jeff

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: jeffyboy ]</p>
What are you up to, Norm?

My ideal weight if I were 11 feet tall.
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What are you up to, Norm?

My ideal weight if I were 11 feet tall.
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post #5 of 22
I do recall hearing some rumblings about some people wanting to change the name, but it doesn't seem even as serious as the movement to change the Redskins. Anyway, it would seem to be a reasonable name given that a majority of the students are Irish anyway. Not too many redskins on the Redskins.

They already did change the name once, though. Didn't it used to be the Fighting Irishmen?
post #6 of 22
"I've always wondered how one arrives at the nickname: the Demon Deacons."

I don't know the story behind that, but I think the funniest nickname in the history of the world is Utah Jazz.

They kept the name when they moved from New Orleans.

Jeff
What are you up to, Norm?

My ideal weight if I were 11 feet tall.
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What are you up to, Norm?

My ideal weight if I were 11 feet tall.
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post #7 of 22
What's funny is when they go after teams like the CincinnatiÂ*Â*Reds. Here's a hint, "reds" has to do with the socks not the native Americans.
post #8 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>What's funny is when they go after teams like the CincinnatiÂ*Â*Reds. Here's a hint, "reds" has to do with the socks not the native Americans.</strong><hr></blockquote>

oh, and here i was thinking they were referring to rednecks...

now my whole worlds turned upside down <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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"If it weren't for my horse...I wouldn't have spent that year in college."

"If curling is an olympic sport, then oral sex is adultery. If anything, oral sex should be an olympic sport...cause it's...
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post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by jeffyboy:
<strong>I don't know the story behind that, but I think the funniest nickname in the history of the world is Utah Jazz.

They kept the name when they moved from New Orleans.

Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's like when the Houston Oilers moved to Nashville a few years ago and before they changed their name to the Titans, they were the Tennessee Oilers.

I was living in Nashville at the time and EVERYBODY was like "huh?".

The only oil in Tennessee is in the can of Quaker State on the shelf at Auto Zone.

Thank God they didn't do the obvious and go with something like the Tennessee Two-Steppers or the Nashville Pickers.



I had nightmares about that.



Regarding the Irish thing and how it's not seen as a negative and all: yeah, I guess so. But, wouldn't that apply to Braves or Aztecs? I don't see the problem in MOST political correctness-oriented battles (some of them REALLY reach).

"Not viewed as a negative thing..." is probably not a sound reason for why the P.C. Patrol hasn't gone after a particular issue. We see them do it all the time.

I simply assumed the world had gotten to the point that ANY mention of ethnicity or culture on a sports team or whatever was seen as taboo.

Guess not.

Well, in that case, excuse me while I go purchase my season tickets for the San Jose Coons. I hear they have a pretty amazing lineup this coming year.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 


I'm KIDDING!!! Relax, people. Show some of that Irish sense of humor groverat spoke of.

post #11 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>
I mean, would the "Fighting Spaniards" or "Raging Asians" be allowed to exist for three seconds in these P.C. times in which we live?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

This whole politically correct thing is out of control. Those two names above would get a school district/college/professional team sued in a minute. Here's the basically how it is in America: If a team name refers to people that aren't white, it's racist.
I have a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell.
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post #12 of 22
When will Swarthmore be sued by the Quakers?
post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thou whilst in due time, brother Scott.
post #14 of 22
Aztecs in particular is a nickname I would have thought would make it under the PC radar. I can't think of any negative connotation at all.

It's easy for me to say as a white bread Midwesterner, but I would take it as a compliment if a team wanted to use my culture for it's name. The closest I can think of is Cornhusker, which I have no problem with.

People don't usually name teams for things they don't have some form of respect for.

I also don't know anyone upset about Boston Celtics. Coincidence? Maybe the Irish are actually just level headed!


Jeff
What are you up to, Norm?

My ideal weight if I were 11 feet tall.
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What are you up to, Norm?

My ideal weight if I were 11 feet tall.
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post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://www.sdsu.edu/identity/monty-picture.jpg" target="_blank">The Aztec's mascot</a> is this buff guy in this bitchin' Aztec warrior get-up, with feathers and armor and so forth.

He looks nothing but strong, brave, postive and kick-ass to me, the few times I've seen him on TV.

It's not like he stumbles out on field drinking and then spending his paycheck on lottery tickets or something.



Yes, I guess, like you, as a white guy, I simply don't (and probably never WILL) "get it".

Isn't that just special?

Half the people bitching about SDSU's Aztec thing probably couldn't tell you the first thing about the Aztec culture, or where Mexico is on a map. But they can sure get whipped into a frenzy if they listen to some charismatic speaker prattle on about "raping our culture..." and so forth.



[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: pscates ]</p>
post #16 of 22
What's a Buckeye? (a deer's eye?)

There's a team out there called the Kangaroos. Really! I saw it in Sunday's paper. I just don't remember the school.

How about the Memphis Grizzlies? Move over, Utah Jazz, St. Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals, and LA Lakers (nee Minneapolis).
post #17 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by jeffyboy:
<strong>I also don't know anyone upset about Boston Celtics. Coincidence? Maybe the Irish are actually just level headed!


Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote>

Minnesota Vikings? People from the north depicted as barbaric warring savages. Where's Jesse Jackson?

The Green Bay Packers is an obvious slander on homosexuals.

I'm glad my school had the good sense to pick a bird as a mascot. Virginia Tech Hokies! Oh wait! The name "hokie" is a slanderous nick name give to us. We preferred to be called the Virginia Tech Fighting Gobblers. Any one who uses the name "hokie" will be sued for, ummmm?, scholastic insensitivity. I've been systematically targeted by you people for too long!
post #18 of 22
This is what happens when your university is founded by a French missionary and named after a famous French cathedral. Naturally, the "Fighting Frenchies" wouldn't have gone over well during the heady days of Knute Rockne and Frank Leahy. "Crusading Croissants" wouldn't have worked either I don't think....so they looked around, thought for a minute, and then realized hey! Half the bloddy men around here are sons of Irish immigrants from Chicago and Gary and places like that...hence, the Fighting Irish were born....


...but don't quote me on that.

Aldo is watching....
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Aldo is watching....
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post #19 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>
The Green Bay Packers is an obvious slander on homosexuals.

We preferred to be called the Virginia Tech Fighting Gobblers.</strong><hr></blockquote>


No, gobblers wouldn't work either. Besides, wouldn't the Fighting Gobblers violently protest against Green Bay's name?
post #20 of 22
[quote]Originally posted by Gregg:
<strong>What's a Buckeye? (a deer's eye?)</strong><hr></blockquote>


A nut that falls from a tree. Can you believe that? They named themselves after a nut! *lol*

What about the Iowa Hawkeyes. I bet most of you didn't know (or care) that the Hawkeyes were a tribe of American Indians native to that area before whitey came along and raped the land. I don't think there are any left to protest, pathetically enough (seriously).
Aldo is watching....
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Aldo is watching....
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post #21 of 22
How about when Saint Louis sold the Cardinals to Phoenix?

Then they kept the name too?

Eh....there aren't any cardinals in Arizona...how 'bout changing the name to the Phoenix Roadrunners or Gila Lizards or something...

Stupid organized, college, corporate sports crap IMO... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #22 of 22
Thread Starter 
That's why the Arizona Diamondbacks rocks. Arizona has TONS of rattlesnakes.

But cardinals? Yeah, right...

The Phoenix Sweat?

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