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World Series: Phillies vs Yankees

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
For those of you outside the Philadelphia and NY area, what is your take on these two teams?

The Evil Empire of outrageously paid superstars versus the highly paid blue-collar Defending World Champion underdogs?
post #2 of 23
If North Korea declared war on Iran, how much would you care about who wins?
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post #3 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Mac View Post

The Evil Empire of outrageously paid superstars versus the highly paid blue-collar Defending World Champion underdogs?

This is the dumbest comparison I've ever heard.

Beside the fact that baseball gets more and more watered-down every year (US football, too), all of these guys are making outrageous sums of money. And it's not like any of the Yankees lineup grew up from Manhattan, nor did any of the Phillies grow up in the rough and tumble parts of Philadelphia.
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post #4 of 23
MLB average salary: $3,240,000

US average household income: $50,000

These guys make 64.8 times as much as the average American, and the average player age is under 30.

Win or lose, they are laughing their heads off at the rest of us.


Sources:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/salaries/avgsalaries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Househo..._United_States

 

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post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
Ok let's refine this question to people who actually still like baseball and aren't living in the 1950's?

And watch your tone, there's nothing wrong with asking this question.
If you didn't like the question you could have easily ignored it.
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Mac View Post

Ok let's refine this question to people who actually still like baseball and aren't living in the 1950's?

And watch your tone, there's nothing wrong with asking this question.
If you didn't like the question you could have easily ignored it.

If people didn't spin their questions from the start, then there'd be no need for anyone responding to watch their "tone."

I've been a baseball fan since I was old enough to watch the game and play it. You got a problem with that, bud?
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post #7 of 23
He didn't spin anything. He posted his interpretation of what these teams were. It was actually a pretty decent comparison. I believe O-Mac was referring more to the team's demeanors and attitudes.

As for baseball and football being watered down: Guess what? It's like that in all pro sports now. There are few players that play for their hometown pro team. It's simply not the way things work. If you have a problem with that, fine. Don't attack the OP because he dared put forth his view.
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post #8 of 23
I didn't get anything from his "view" except the implication that people who still like baseball are "living in the 1950s." As nearly as I can tell, this was intended as a slur against baseball fans. If it was meant another way, then perhaps the poster who made this comment can explain it.

I have no idea what is meant by the suggestion that baseball is "watered down." It is still the game it always was, the main difference being that players are no longer held as chattel by the owners. I don't obsess about how much players are paid, and I don't understand why any baseball fan would. Actually, they don't -- people who make these comments are not baseball fans.
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post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I didn't get anything from his "view" except the implication that people who still like baseball are "living in the 1950s." As nearly as I can tell, this was intended as a slur against baseball fans. If it was meant another way, then perhaps the poster who made this comment can explain it.

I have no idea what is meant by the suggestion that baseball is "watered down." It is still the game it always was, the main difference being that players are no longer held as chattel by the owners. I don't obsess about how much players are paid, and I don't understand why any baseball fan would. Actually, they don't -- people who make these comments are not baseball fans.

I can't speak for him, but my interpretation was that it seemed like certain posters were ignoring the realities of the business side of the game, as if they were stuck in a time where money wasn't perceived to have mattered as much.
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post #10 of 23
Maybe, I don't know what he meant for certain, but it seemed to contain a kernel of untruth about baseball fans.

Yes, baseball is a business. I believe the vast majority of fans recognize this about the game. The only time I hear fans complain about player salaries is when somebody gets more than it seems they are worth, relative to other players. Hardly anybody is nostalgic for the "good old days" before free agency. You'll also hear complaints about lopsided payrolls, which is a real problem in the game, resulting from the ridiculous way revenues are (not) shared by the teams.
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post #11 of 23
Well, back on topic; the Phillies are getting their asses handed to them, and rightfully so.

post #12 of 23
Any baseball fan who doesn't live in the Bronx but roots for the Yankees has issues.
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post #13 of 23
I'm no Yankees fan, but I imagine I have neighbors who used to live in New York who are. The Mets play in Queens, so then who are people who live on Manhattan "supposed" to root for?
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg View Post

I'm no Yankees fan, but I imagine I have neighbors who used to live in New York who are. The Mets play in Queens, so then who are people who live on Manhattan "supposed" to root for?

Fair enough, the Mets or the Yankees. If you once lived in New York, maybe you get a pass for being a Yankees fan. Maybe.

Seriously, if you took all the worst things about baseball today and put them in one place, it would be the Yankees. I don't see how any real baseball fan without some geographical connection to New York could like the team.
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post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't see how any real baseball fan without some geographical connection to New York could like the team.

Damn Yankees!
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Fair enough, the Mets or the Yankees. If you once lived in New York, maybe you get a pass for being a Yankees fan. Maybe.

Seriously, if you took all the worst things about baseball today and put them in one place, it would be the Yankees. I don't see how any real baseball fan without some geographical connection to New York could like the team.

Absolutely. The only thing worse than the Yankees is the average non-local Yankee fan. Out here in Oakland the show up in strength at the Coliseum and behave like utter douche bags.
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post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Any baseball fan who doesn't live in the Bronx but roots for the Yankees has issues.

Why? Yankees are the "home team" for all of New York State, except long island, much of Connecticut, and most of New Jersey. In fact, I've been to Springfield, Mass, and the people I met there liked the Yankees, too.

Think about this:
- Douchebags all over the world support Man United. Most of them have never even been to England, much less Manchester.
- For some reason it's OK to have nothing to do with Boston and support the Red Sox. This is weird, because the Red Sox don't have anywhere near the legacy the Yankees have.

The fact is that it's human nature to support a winner. That's life.
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post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I have no idea what is meant by the suggestion that baseball is "watered down."

I used to be a pretty serious baseball fan. Gradually I stopped caring. Here's why, in no particular order:

- Better alternatives are available now to the american and global audience. I can flip on the TV and watch sports I find more interesting that didn't used to be televised in my market, or which simply didn't exist. Examples: Soccer, F1, Cage Fighting.

- A few weeks ago I went to a game in San Francisco. This is the ultimate example of watered-down. All of these new stadiums that have gone up in the last twenty years, which I've been to, are more about going to the stadium than going to the game.

- There is limited to no competition in baseball. There is one league with one set of rules and customs. If you want to watch baseball in America, there is only one choice.

- Because there is not enough popularity of baseball, globally, the supply market for players is low, driving up the cost incredibly. This requires the league to impose payroll taxes, which are really just there to protect franchises that should have no business being in the league anyway. It's worse in the NFL where there are outright caps.

- Due to the franchise system, there's essentially no way to phase-in a relegation/promotion process, which in my opinion is the only way baseball could be saved.
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post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Why? Yankees are the "home team" for all of New York State, except long island, much of Connecticut, and most of New Jersey.

Why not Long Island?

And why is Staten Island part of New York and not New Jersey anyway? (just a tangent)
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Why? Yankees are the "home team" for all of New York State, except long island, much of Connecticut, and most of New Jersey. In fact, I've been to Springfield, Mass, and the people I met there liked the Yankees, too.

I won't even ask, why not the Mets? Also a New York team, last I heard.

The Yankees are the prime example of what is wrong with baseball. Because of the way media dollars are divided, the Yankees can routinely spend over twice as much as nearly any other team on payroll. Yankee fans are the other half of the problem, because they believe that this is the way it ought to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

I used to be a pretty serious baseball fan. Gradually I stopped caring. Here's why, in no particular order:

- Better alternatives are available now to the american and global audience. I can flip on the TV and watch sports I find more interesting that didn't used to be televised in my market, or which simply didn't exist. Examples: Soccer, F1, Cage Fighting.

With cage fighting on your list, I'm surprised that you ever were a baseball fan.

Quote:
- A few weeks ago I went to a game in San Francisco. This is the ultimate example of watered-down. All of these new stadiums that have gone up in the last twenty years, which I've been to, are more about going to the stadium than going to the game.

I don't see your point. Do you think the baseball fans in that city think it's "all about going to the stadium?" Maybe you got that impression because the Giants were already eliminated.

Quote:
- There is limited to no competition in baseball. There is one league with one set of rules and customs. If you want to watch baseball in America, there is only one choice.

In exactly the same way as the NBA, the NFL, and every other professional team sport.

Quote:
- Because there is not enough popularity of baseball, globally, the supply market for players is low, driving up the cost incredibly. This requires the league to impose payroll taxes, which are really just there to protect franchises that should have no business being in the league anyway. It's worse in the NFL where there are outright caps.

This appears to be a contradictory argument. The luxury tax, which last I heard only applied to the Yankees, was created because MLB doesn't have the balls to do what really needs to be done, which is share media revenues far more equally between teams. There's no logic in a competitive team sport (which last I heard requires more than a few teams to exist) for one team to be able to spend four to five times as much as another, for the simple reason that their media market is much larger. This is the single largest reason why some teams are perpetual non-comptititors. It's not that they have "no business being in the league," but that the league allows this situation to exist.

Quote:
- Due to the franchise system, there's essentially no way to phase-in a relegation/promotion process, which in my opinion is the only way baseball could be saved.

Baseball doesn't need to be saved. Sharing media revenues more equally would solve all of baseball's real problems. Yankee fans might have to get used to not being entitled, but tough on them. A little reality therapy would be good for them.
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post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg View Post

Why not Long Island?

And why is Staten Island part of New York and not New Jersey anyway? (just a tangent)

Long Island is Mets ground. I'm not looking at the map and arbitrarily dividing thinks up. This is just how the lines fall. I have a lot of family in that part of the world.

Staten Island is its own mystery.
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post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I won't even ask, why not the Mets? Also a New York team, last I heard.

See the post above: Mets are Long Island.

As for the rest, there's really no point in arguing. I have no problem with baseball, just the MLB, but you either can't separate the two or simply haven't taken the opportunity to put MLB into the vast competitive landscape of the sports-entertainment market.

Salary caps make it so the league can't compete with other leagues. There's not enough talent to make every team have quality -- that's a fact. Allow teams with large markets, like the Yankees, to spend more on players is the only fair way to do it. The yankees sell a product to millions. The Red Sox do too. Teams like the Milwaukee Brewers do not, and the league only cripples itself when it bases its policy on the needs of the weak.

Of course, if you think that baseball hasn't lost most of its cultural status, and doesn't need help, you're just wearing blinders.
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post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

See the post above: Mets are Long Island.

Queens, actually -- which last I checked was a borough of New York. A strange point to make, since the argument has been made that the Yankees are the natural team of people who live in Connecticut, and even Massachusetts -- which were different states, last I checked.

Quote:
As for the rest, there's really no point in arguing. I have no problem with baseball, just the MLB, but you either can't separate the two or simply haven't taken the opportunity to put MLB into the vast competitive landscape of the sports-entertainment market.

Salary caps make it so the league can't compete with other leagues. There's not enough talent to make every team have quality -- that's a fact. Allow teams with large markets, like the Yankees, to spend more on players is the only fair way to do it. The yankees sell a product to millions. The Red Sox do too. Teams like the Milwaukee Brewers do not, and the league only cripples itself when it bases its policy on the needs of the weak.

Of course, if you think that baseball hasn't lost most of its cultural status, and doesn't need help, you're just wearing blinders.

Preposterous, on all counts. I can't believe this argument is being made by anyone who was ever an actual baseball fan.
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