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State of the Union 2010

post #1 of 128
Thread Starter 
I'm surprised there's not a thread yet about the State of the Union speech. I found very little not to like about it. But above the job creation, nuclear power, and renewed demand for healthcare reform, I liked this part the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by President Obama

Of course, none of these reforms will even happen if we don't also reform how we work with one another. Now, I'm not naive. I never thought that the mere fact of my election would usher in peace and harmony and some post-partisan era.

I knew that both parties have fed divisions that are deeply entrenched. And on some issues, there are simply philosophical differences that will always cause us to part ways. These disagreements, about the role of government in our lives, about our national priorities and our national security, they've been taking place for over 200 years. They're the very essence of our democracy.

But what frustrates the American people is a Washington where every day is Election Day. We can't wage a perpetual campaign where the only goal is to see who can get the most embarrassing headlines about the other side, a belief that if you lose, I win. Neither party should delay or obstruct every single bill just because they can.

The confirmation of...

(APPLAUSE)

I'm speaking of both parties now. The confirmation of well-qualified public servants shouldn't be held hostage to the pet projects or grudges of a few individual senators.

(APPLAUSE)

Washington may think that saying anything about the other side, no matter how false, no matter how malicious, is just part of the game. But it's precisely such politics that has stopped either party from helping the American people. Worse yet -- worse yet, it's sowing further division among our citizens, further distrust in our government.

So, no, I will not give up on trying to change the tone of our politics. I know it's an election year. And after last week, it's clear that campaign fever has come even earlier than usual. But we still need to govern.

To Democrats, I would remind you that we still have the largest majority in decades and the people expect us to solve problems, not run for the hills.

(APPLAUSE)

And if the Republican leadership is going to insist that 60 votes in the Senate are required to do any business at all in this town, a supermajority, then the responsibility to govern is now yours, as well. Just saying no to everything may be good short-term politics, but it's not leadership. We were sent here to serve our citizens, not our ambitions.

(APPLAUSE)

So let's show the American people that we can do it together.

It's time we stop rooting for the failure of American policies. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our citizens. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our president.

A good many of us have never resorted to such hate. Throughout the entire Bush administration, whose policies I abhorred with heated passion, I never wanted those policies to fail in their intentions: to strengthen America (albeit through processes I may disagree with).

Enough on both sides have, however, have placed their party winning over America winning. I don't care if your party wins. If America loses, WE ALL LOSE. Pyrrhic victories are not something worth fighting for.

I hope everyone on this forum will take Obama's words to heart. Whether you dislike Obama for doing too much or failing to do enough, he speaks some serious words of wisdom of which you must take heed.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2 of 128
Wow Obama is so out of touch and myopic it's amazing. Is anyone still listening to his bullshit?
post #3 of 128
Obama came across as arrogant, smug, and condescending. Basically, he expressed his intention to continue his radical agenda and implied that anyone who disagrees or opposes him is too stupid to understand. He is not willing to compromise, nor is he willing to listen to the American people.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #4 of 128
Those are some really nice platitudes. Too bad his own party is paying off it's own members with bribes to try to pass health care and too bad he took a shot at our own Supreme Court in the very same speech.

That said though, his speech is really just full of lies. Look at one of the very introductory paragraphs of it.

Quote:
One year ago, I took office amid two wars, an economy rocked by a severe recession, a financial system on the verge of collapse and a government deeply in debt. Experts from across the political spectrum warned that if we did not act, we might face a second depression. So we acted -- immediately and aggressively. And one year later, the worst of the storm has passed.

First experts did not uniformly warn that action had to be taken. The CATO institute had over 200 economists warn that the stimulus would make matters worse and indeed it has. The financial sector is not much better, is not lending and Obama and his insane cohorts are already yelling at them already for not making bad and unaffordable loans again. The government was taking on debts at levels we only can pray for now because with Obama we are in the land of perpetual trillion dollar deficits. Finally the wars have not deescalated but have escalated. Guantanamo has not closed by Obama's own timeline and additionally, those troops will not be home either. Instead we will have put even more of them into Afghanistan.

Lest we forget, the logic the Democrats found laughable during the Bush administration is still being followed and yet again, no one seems to care about it when there is a D next to the name. The claim was that we are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here and that rather than simply leaving, we were breeding terrorists by the thousands due to being there.

None of this has changed and worse still, no one on the left cares about it anymore.

Finally it is totally insane to claim people are unable to separate a person and their policies. Yet continually conflates the two as does most of the left. He makes himself the object of discussion rather than the work being done. It is stupid though and nothing more than a strawman. The left CONTINUALLY engages in ad-homs because of their inability to separate a person from policies. To the left everyone who disagrees with them is a racist, sexist, a homophobe, a Nazi, a hatemonger, a teabagger, you name it. It shows that this is yet again, a worthless platitude that sounds nice but is not done in practice by the president nor his party.

If the left could separate people from their positions, then they could stop hating people for having positions and lastly could realize that a desire not to have a position in effect doesn't mean you hate the person. They cannot do this though at it is a large part of what is wrong in our politics today. Hell Obama spent a large part of the year poisoning the well with regard to Fox News, the only news organization that actually covered his actions in an critical manner. It is clear he does this on purpose so that he can claim disagreement with his policies is racial hatred.

How much bullshit can we take when "Fox is not a news channel" is still right here on the front page and the attempt to even question such a things comes directly from the Obama administration itself.

To see what we saw happen to Sarah Palin in the election season, and what continues to happen with regard to her while claiming such platitudes is just sickening bullshit. It is the purest example of this. People couldn't even look at the policies of Palin to find disagreement. They had to hate on her for purely personal reasons based on what she personally represents. The most high-minded and respectful members of these forums stooped to such crap when their very first thread on her was nothing more than the gutter gossip being passed along about how her own child couldn't be hers and demanding her private medical care be the subject of public scrutiny.

People call the right crazy for demanding a birth certificate. When is the last time someone on the right got to demand the DNA of someone on the left. When is the last time someone on the right got to demand and question the MATERNITY of someone's own child. Paternity, sure that can be questionable at times, but MATERNITY?

Oh but all this goes away because I can speak platitudes. Calling protesters Tea Baggers goes away because of the platitudes. Calling people Nazis and racists goes away because of platitudes. Calling the GOP the party of NO because they will support the shovel ready projects, but not the payoffs to Democratic interests that costs our children and grandchildren while not stimulating a darn thing, that goes away because of the platitudes. Claiming Fox News isn't a a real news organization, no problem, platitudes will fix it.

The real problem, and the real reason no one cares to discuss much of what Obama discussed last night is because the man already has a huge credibility gap. It is why he is, depending upon the measure the fastest falling and most polarizing president of the modern era. The only thing more amazing about this is how it is possible to so lack credibility when only speaking in platitudes. We aren't talking Obama said he would spend $200 billion and only spent $180 billion. Those things people can actually more easily forgive and understand. Rather his lies are akin to saying you will respect someone while punching them in the face. He claims high intentions and practices the most bare-knuckled politics imaginable. He claims to be post-partisan while being hyper-partisan. He claims to be fiscally responsible while blowing the doors off the national debt. He claims he will be ethical while filling his cabinet with tax cheats, lobbyists, and hyper-partisan members of his own party.

This is the perfect summation of what is wrong Obama and his platitudes. Kennedy said we were going to the moon. Everyone agreed with it and worked toward it and it was a common though expensive goal. The technologies that came out of it benefited everyone. Obama doesn't want us to go to the moon and has canceled the planned missions. Instead he wants us to study global warming which no one agrees on and appears increasingly to be made of junk science. Claiming the platitude doesn't remove that stark contrast. Likewise on energy, we can exploit what we have and build all manner of improved technology to get ourselves more energy independent. As myself and others have noted, we can use our natural gas reserves, build tons of nuclear power plants to provide energy with the lowest carbon footprint imaginable with current technology that meets our large scale needs. Instead the only choice from the big O is a big ZERO as in zero footprint technologies. He will only support wind and solar while declaring everyone else is inflexible and extreme on the point.

The man needs to bend if he wants other to do so. Platitudes while being hyper-partisan is just the most uncredible position one can take. He has taken it and that is why the polls have dropped for him the way they have. The declines match those of Watergate and it is because we have a lying president but a media that won't investigate those lies. Platitudes won't change the lies and now people are tuning them out because lies on top of lies are just more bullshit.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #5 of 128
Meanwhile, in the real world, Americans really liked the speech.

According to CBS's instant poll, an enormous 83% of people who saw it approved of Obamas proposals. 17% didnt.

So thats pretty good.

The whole polls here: www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_SOTU_012710.pdf

Basically, the whole thing was very well received.

(Did anyone read the post above this one? Its a stream of ad homs whining that the evil left make ad homs. Read a little bit of it, if you dare.

Quote:
]If the left could separate people from their positions, then they could stop hating people for having positions and lastly could realize that a desire not to have a position in effect doesn't mean you hate the person. They cannot do this though at it is a large part of what is wrong in our politics today. Hell Obama spent a large part of the year poisoning the well with regard to Fox News, the only news organization that actually covered his actions in an critical manner. It is clear he does this on purpose so that he can claim disagreement with his policies is racial hatred

yes, it is, very clear! VERY clear. Mm hm. )
post #6 of 128
AP - OBAMA Fact Check

THE FACTS: The anticipated savings from this proposal would amount to less than 1 percent of the deficit and that's if the president can persuade Congress to go along.

THE FACTS: Any commission that Obama creates would be a weak substitute for what he really wanted a commission created by Congress that could force lawmakers to consider unpopular remedies to reduce the debt, including curbing politically sensitive entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. That idea crashed in the Senate this week, defeated by equal numbers of Democrats and Republicans. Any commission set up by Obama alone would lack authority to force its recommendations before Congress, and would stand almost no chance of success

THE FACTS: The Democratic legislation now hanging in limbo on Capitol Hill aims to keep people with employer-sponsored coverage the majority of Americans under age 65 in the plans they already have. But Obama can't guarantee people won't see higher rates or fewer benefits in their existing plans. Because of elements such as new taxes on insurance companies, insurers could change what they offer or how much it costs. Moreover, Democrats have proposed a series of changes to the Medicare program for people 65 and older that would certainly pinch benefits enjoyed by some seniors. The Congressional Budget Office has predicted cuts for those enrolled in private Medicare Advantage plans.

THE FACTS: Obama has limited the hiring of lobbyists for administration jobs, but the ban isn't absolute; seven waivers from the ban have been granted to White House officials alone. Getting lobbyists to report every contact they make with the federal government would be difficult at best; Congress would have to change the law, and that's unlikely to happen. And lobbyists already are subject to strict limits on political giving. Just like every other American, they're limited to giving $2,400 per election to federal candidates, with an overall ceiling of $115,500 every two years.

THE FACTS: The success of the Obama-pushed economic stimulus that Congress approved early last year has been an ongoing point of contention. In December, the administration reported that recipients of direct assistance from the government created or saved about 650,000 jobs. The number was based on self-reporting by recipients and some of the calculations were shown to be in error.

The Congressional Budget Office has been much more guarded than Obama in characterizing the success of the stimulus plan. In November, it reported that the stimulus increased the number of people employed by between 600,000 and 1.6 million "compared with what those values would have been otherwise." It said the ranges "reflect the uncertainty of such estimates." And it added, "It is impossible to determine how many of the reported jobs would have existed in the absence of the stimulus package."


THE FACTS: Obama skipped past a broken promise from his campaign to have the negotiations for health care legislation broadcast on C-SPAN "so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies." Instead, Democrats in the White House and Congress have conducted the usual private negotiations, making multibillion-dollar deals with hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and other stakeholders behind closed doors. Nor has Obama lived up consistently to his pledge to ensure that legislation is posted online for five days before it's acted upon.

But, but but..... pretty platitudes!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #7 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Meanwhile, in the real world, Americans really liked the speech.

You beat me to it!

I wonder who fits in that 17%???

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #8 of 128
Who doesn't like platitudes?

Again, we are tested. And again, we must answer history's call.

Does everyone here support answering history's call?

They're tired of the partisanship and the shouting and the pettiness.

Does everyone support ending partisanship, shouting and pettiness? (All while calling out the Supreme Court at the same time.)

The aspirations they hold are shared: a job that pays the bills, a chance to get ahead, most of all, the ability to give their children a better life.

Well who is against this?

We do not give up. We do not quit. We do not allow fear or division to break our spirit. In this new decade, it's time the American people get a government that matches their decency, that embodies their strength.

People polled supported not giving up or quitting. They supported a government that matches them.

I could go on but big empty speeches are not hard for Obama. He was elected based on his ability to make them. The oceans will stop rising and we will tear down plenty of invisible walls on his watch. The problem is with the actual governing and the policies.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #9 of 128
What he says is fine, but what he does is what matters. If the coming days don't bring us pics and headlines about jobs then he'll not have understood what is most important at this time.
post #10 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm surprised there's not a thread yet about the State of the Union speech. I found very little not to like about it. But above the job creation, nuclear power, and renewed demand for healthcare reform, I liked this part the best.

I have honestly not seen or read it yet. Real life sometimes gets in the way. However, based on the short pieces I have seen here I will simply say, show me the money. The guy can talk the talk, now lets see him walk the walk. I am going to try to read/watch the entire thing soon so I may have more later on, but if he tries to push for jobs, nuclear power, and bipartisan health insurance/care reform, then he will have gone a long ways toward silencing me as a detractor. And as for the quote you posted. I will also believe that when I see it. From him. Lead by example. He got elected on big promises and a great premise. Unless he actually follows up, this is him simply waging a campaign to get reelected.

Quote:
It's time we stop rooting for the failure of American policies. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our citizens. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our president.

I for one am rooting for the success of the United States, and for the implementation of policies that will bring that about. I root for the financial, spiritual (which will not come from politics), and physical well being of the citizens. And I am rooting for a president that I can believe in and get behind. For Obama to be that man will take him actually doing what he says.

Quote:
A good many of us have never resorted to such hate. Throughout the entire Bush administration, whose policies I abhorred with heated passion, I never wanted those policies to fail in their intentions: to strengthen America (albeit through processes I may disagree with).

Enough on both sides have, however, have placed their party winning over America winning. I don't care if your party wins. If America loses, WE ALL LOSE. Pyrrhic victories are not something worth fighting for.

I hope everyone on this forum will take Obama's words to heart. Whether you dislike Obama for doing too much or failing to do enough, he speaks some serious words of wisdom of which you must take heed.

Time will tell whether his words, while wise, were actually his honest position. Perhaps his first year has shown him that he cannot simply promise and then not deliver without repercussions.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #11 of 128
The vindication continues. Many of us pointed out that Obama had accomplished little in his career as a legislature. We knew he was "green behind he ears". And here we see that as president he's not able to operate in a way where things get done in a way that brings the support of both parties and the american people. TOLD YA SO!
post #12 of 128
Thread Starter 
Should I have expected anything less from the wingnuts posting here? I don't know why I bother with you guys. I suppose this is what we get for dropping philosophical differences and getting behind George W. post 9/11. All that shit about supporting one's nation and working together in a time of crisis or war...ya, just gumflapping rhetoric that the hardliners never planned on reproducing if the situation were reversed like it is now.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #13 of 128
Thread Starter 
Remember when the Republicans refused to stand and clap about being hopeful for American's future and about all the tax cuts that have been passed? That just shows what a big bunch of babies they are acting like.

*grumble grumble* boo america *grumble grumble* boo tax cuts *grumble grumble*

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #14 of 128
What happened to all those celebrities that said they would flee america if Bush was reelected? I don't think they left? Well at least now they can be proud of their country for the first time in their lives.
post #15 of 128
I thought it was hilarious that after last year's "you lie" fiasco from some no-name GOP congressman,
this year's "you lie" came from the mouth of a Supreme Court Justice.

This year, Obama is attracting a much higher class of protestors.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #16 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I thought it was hilarious that after last year's "you lie" fiasco from some no-name GOP congressman,
this year's "you lie" came from the mouth of a Supreme Court Justice.

This year, Obama is attracting a much higher class of protestors.

The song remains the same. I'm going to accuse you of a bunch of crap and call you a bunch of ad-homs in the name of post-partisan feelgoodiness, peace and harmony.

I wonder how long we will have to put up with listening to how racist Judge Alito must be for not allowing Obama to point a finger at him and accuse of him of nonsense.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #17 of 128
By the way, Obama said he wanted to double U.S. exports over the next five years.

Since he was the one who shut out Canadian companies and the rest of the world with his 'Buy American' Stimulus bill,
how do you think that's going to work out?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #18 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Should I have expected anything less from the wingnuts posting here? I don't know why I bother with you guys. I suppose this is what we get for dropping philosophical differences and getting behind George W. post 9/11. All that shit about supporting one's nation and working together in a time of crisis or war...ya, just gumflapping rhetoric that the hardliners never planned on reproducing if the situation were reversed like it is now.

Is that aimed at all responses on this? Or can you narrow down your overly-broad generalization a bit so that I can know if I should be offended or not...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #19 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Wow Obama is so out of touch and myopic it's amazing. Is anyone still listening to his bullshit?

The markets did today, unfortunately...
post #20 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

By the way, Obama said he wanted to double U.S. exports over the next five years.

Since he was the one who shut out Canadian companies and the rest of the world with his 'Buy American' Stimulus bill,
how do you think that's going to work out?

During the Presidential primaries, I recall Omama promising to withdraw from, or renegotiating NAFTA. Perhaps he'll follow through...
post #21 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Is that aimed at all responses on this? Or can you narrow down your overly-broad generalization a bit so that I can know if I should be offended or not...

Eh, you aren't really the target of my ire here. But you do realize you've got a little bit of a chicken and egg situation going on in your replies. You want Obama to be able to make good on his promises, but he's not a king. He can't make the legislation AND sign it into law. He can only do the latter and has to rely upon a bunch of little shits who care more about their reelection campaigns and beating the other side than doing what's right for the country to do the former. I think that frustration showed in his speech last night and I liked that he was open about it. I think much of America feels the same way.

It's hard to blame Obama about what doesn't get through the rooms full of bickering 10 year olds...err...House and Senate. The Congress is failing to do their part.

And wtf, why doesn't this forum have a [strike] option for crossing out text?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #22 of 128
Thread Starter 
From John Scalzi's analysis of the situation...I think he hits the nail on the head:

Quote:
But Obama’s real problem is not Obama or his own policies; Obama’s real problem is that in Congress, his allies are incompetent cowards and his adversaries are smug dicks. I find it genuinely appalling a Democratic president has to prod his party members in the Senate, with a 59-seat majority, to stop acting like spooked children. The lot of them need to have a stick jammed up their ass, because it’s clear they don’t have much in the way of a spine. As for the Republicans, a recent reader was distressed when I said they were “hopped-up ignorant nihilists,” but you know what, when your Senate operating strategy is “filibuster everything and let Fox News do the rest,” and the party as a whole gives it a thumbs up, guess what, you’re goddamned nihilists. There’s no actual political strategy in GOP anymore other than taking joy in defeating the Democrats. I don’t have a problem with them enjoying such a thing, but it’s not a real political philosophy, or at least shouldn’t be.

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/01/2...he-union-2010/

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #23 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Eh, you aren't really the target of my ire here. But you do realize you've got a little bit of a chicken and egg situation going on in your replies. You want Obama to be able to make good on his promises, but he's not a king. He can't make the legislation AND sign it into law. He can only do the latter and has to rely upon a bunch of little shits who care more about their reelection campaigns and beating the other side than doing what's right for the country to do the former. I think that frustration showed in his speech last night and I liked that he was open about it. I think much of America feels the same way.

It's hard to blame Obama about what doesn't get through the rooms full of bickering 10 year olds...err...House and Senate. The Congress is failing to do their part.

And wtf, why doesn't this forum have a [strike] option for crossing out text?

I think in my conversations here I've gotten the feeling that most of the rightwing want to see Obama fail. I didn't want Bush to fail for the american voter. However most ( if not all ) of the stuff I was predicting while he was in office came true! No one wants to see an american president fail in his policies because if he/she does we all fail.

I think Obama should have been concentrating on the economy more in his first year. I also think he may have been trying to accomplish too much. However like I've said to another member here recently he walked into such a mess he can't even work on his agendas. He has to clean up from what came before and that is a full time job!

I can't remember any president in my lifetime that had such a mess to deal with.

I liked his speech ( I know some here will say " What a surprise " ). I'm hoping he can make good on his ideas because we all have our futures riding on it. And yes congress is a bunch of stick in the mud pussies. They really need to get their collective act together.

I hope some of the conservatives here take note because I was talking about Democrats there. I'm still registered independent. I just happen to favor the Democrats over the Republicans in their current state. If there's real Republican reform who knows I might vote for them some day. But not as long as they reflect the ways of the Neocon. They don't even do their own party any good. And I do think the american voter is fed up with that kind of politics.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #24 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

By the way, Obama said he wanted to double U.S. exports over the next five years.

Since he was the one who shut out Canadian companies and the rest of the world with his 'Buy American' Stimulus bill,
how do you think that's going to work out?

Too right. His blocking of all free trade uncovers the lie to his goal.
post #25 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Too right. His blocking of all free trade uncovers the lie to his goal.

Like I said.........
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #26 of 128
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../01/025477.php

Quote:
...As I said earlier today, I believe that the critical mass of independent voters will put little stock in Obama's speech. They will be focused instead on his deeds and, above all, the economy. But if tonight was an opportunity for Obama to regain favor with independents, I don't think he seized it.

Certainly, independents will be disappointed if they hoped the president would "pivot." Other than his ideas (plausible sounding but empty) on deficit reduction and his pitch for building nuclear power plants and drilling off-shore, there was no substantive centrism in the speech. [Note; upon further review of the speech, I would add ethics reform and breaks for small businesses; I don't count filler like supporting community colleges -- it may poll well with focus groups, but it doesn't stick to the ribs] And Obama continued to talk up Obamacare and cap-and-trade, and, of course, to bad-mouth the banks -- all staples of his first year,

In terms of tone, I thought Obama got it right for a while, but then drifted into the kind of borderline nastiness, rank hypocricy, and excessive self-references that have started to grate on those who once viewed him as post-partisan.

...Then, came the moment of truth when Obama insisted that he would forge ahead with his agenda. But this was a limited, modified moment of truth because the agenda he talked about consisted mostly of innocuous sounding items -- financial reform, research and development, nuclear energy, export promotion, and the strengthening of community colleges.

Only after that recitation did Obama talk about "health insurance reform." And, not surprisingly, it was here that his tone began to degenerate. He was self-referential ("I didn't take on health care reform because. . .", I should have explained the legislation better, and "I won't walk away" from the uninsured). He was condescending (doctors and nurses who know this stuff like my plan). And he was arrogant ("if anyone has a better approach let me know; I'm eager to hear it"). I think independents would have liked it better if Obama had adopted a more proactive approach to finding out what others have to say. ... Obama's tone continued to go downhill.

For example, he refused to take any blame for our "fiscal hole" -- it was all either the result of the mess he inherited or the need to avoid a calmatity (i.e. the mess he inherited). Yet, in the very next part of his speech, Obama launched an attack on the Washington blame game and other forms of excessive partisanship. Yet, in virtually the next words out of his mouth, he accused the Republicans of acting in bad faith -- i.e., saying "no" just to say "no" and to "further their ambitions."

Obama claimed to be "speaking to both parties." But his message to Democrats was "don't run for the hills" (i.e., follow me) while his message to Republicans was don't obstruct me. It's difficult to believe that independents were impressed by this odd version of bipartisanship.

Having just relitigated the Bush years and the first year of his presidency, Obama began his discussion of foreign policy and national security by saying he did not wish to relitigate the past. ...Obama concluded by attacking cynicism. While taking some responsibility for unspecified legislative failures, he argued in essence that he is being held back in his efforts to bring about the change he promised by the cynicism that results from the moral failings of corporations, media, and lobbyists.

And into that unholy mixture, Obama tossed the United States Supreme Court. He did so by attacking the Court's recent decision on campaign finance reform, which (if I heard him right) he incorrectly characterized as inconistent with one hundred years of precedent. As a result, those Justices who attended, including those in the majority, were treated to a direct attack by the executive which was then seconded (as Obama knew it would be) by a standing ovation from what looked like a majority of the legislative branch. Thank you for coming.

I'm sure this went down well with Obama's base, but again, I doubt that independents were impressed. I don't know whether the first part of this statement applies to the speech as a whole, but I suspect the second part does.
post #27 of 128
Where the crap does this 'elitist' shit come from?! FOX is brainwashing you. Yeah a guy who made himself what he is and is advocating for regular Americans instead of friggin AIG or Citibank is elitist. Are you guys just harboring some resentment that maybe you applied to Harvard or something and didn't get in, unlike the Obamas? Hey guess what, maybe Obama is smarter than you! And me! Don't you want a President smarter than you? Or do you want a meathead you can 'have a beer with'? I guess if you go for the latter, W and Dan Quayle are your guys.
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post #28 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Where the crap does this 'elitist' shit come from?! FOX is brainwashing you. Yeah a guy who made himself what he is and is advocating for regular Americans instead of friggin AIG or Citibank is elitist. Are you guys just harboring some resentment that maybe you applied to Harvard or something and didn't get in, unlike the Obamas? Hey guess what, maybe Obama is smarter than you! And me! Don't you want a President smarter than you? Or do you want a meathead you can 'have a beer with'? I guess if you go for the latter, W and Dan Quayle are your guys.

Hey! What do you mean? His blog was posted by " Paul " no less!

Surely that guy has the inside info!
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post #29 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Where the crap does this 'elitist' shit come from?! FOX is brainwashing you. Yeah a guy who made himself what he is and is advocating for regular Americans instead of friggin AIG or Citibank is elitist. Are you guys just harboring some resentment that maybe you applied to Harvard or something and didn't get in, unlike the Obamas? Hey guess what, maybe Obama is smarter than you! And me! Don't you want a President smarter than you? Or do you want a meathead you can 'have a beer with'? I guess if you go for the latter, W and Dan Quayle are your guys.

Have you ever heard Obama speak when not rehashing prepared statements or reading a speech? You may want to think twice about how smart you think he is. There's a reason he doesn't go anywhere without a teleprompter.
post #30 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm surprised there's not a thread yet about the State of the Union speech. I found very little not to like about it. But above the job creation, nuclear power, and renewed demand for health care reform, I liked this part the best.

It's time we stop rooting for the failure of American policies. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our citizens. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our president.
...

Enough on both sides have, however, have placed their party winning over America winning. I don't care if your party wins. If America loses, WE ALL LOSE. Pyrrhic victories are not something worth fighting for.

I hope everyone on this forum will take Obama's words to heart. Whether you dislike Obama for doing too much or failing to do enough, he speaks some serious words of wisdom of which you must take heed.

Oh my goodness BR, this sounds like Obamabot twitterpation. I don't take 'words to heart' unless I think they are sincere and not delusional - given that Obama is a lecturing moralist and narcissus the only thing his 'reborn populism' reminds me of is good only fashioned Huey Long hate speech.

Bank bashing, Republican bashing, supreme court bashing, self-references, arrogance, and a laundry list of half hearted trigger words that went down well in focus groups does not deserve the obsequious worship that seems to still permeate the supporters.

He is no more serious about nuclear power and off-shore drilling than Bush was serious about Hydrogen cars and global warming. Good God, why do people fall for this?
post #31 of 128
Thread Starter 
Cut the crap Max. He echoed in those statements my own thoughts on the matter that I held before he made the speech. Obamabot twitterpation? Bullshit.

He bashed the Democrats as well as the Republicans. Quit whining about that.

He commented that he disagreed with the decision of the Supreme Court. What, that's not allowed? 4 members of the Supreme Court disagreed, too.

Arrogance? Fuck, have you seen George W speeches?

Half-hearted trigger words? Name them.

How do you know he's not serious about nuclear power or off-shore drilling?

 

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post #32 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Have you ever heard Obama speak when not rehashing prepared statements or reading a speech? You may want to think twice about how smart you think he is. There's a reason he doesn't go anywhere without a teleprompter.

Yes. Many times. I remember particularly the time he took questions for nearly an hour after the G8 Summit in London and took and answered detailed questions on policy and global economics. He got a standing ovation from the press corps at the end.

Stop believing the horsehit you read repeated on right wing blogs and Fox News and begin trusting the evidence of your own fucking eyes.
post #33 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Cut the crap Max. He echoed in those statements my own thoughts on the matter that I held before he made the speech. Obamabot twitterpation? Bullshit.

He bashed the Democrats as well as the Republicans. Quit whining about that.

He commented that he disagreed with the decision of the Supreme Court. What, that's not allowed? 4 members of the Supreme Court disagreed, too.

Half-hearted trigger words? Name them.

How do you know he's not serious about nuclear power or off-shore drilling?

He is not serious about either nuclear power or off-shore drilling because a) they don't fit with his ideology (or the ideology and history of anti nuke of his party) and b) they were damned by feint mention. Anyone familiar with State of the Union messages will tell you that every President has padding, a list of "oh yas, we want that too" sfuff. No one takes it seriously. When we see Obama actually propose and push for serious legislation, then we can believe it...but not before.

Also, it's a bit of hubris to take no responsibility for the fiscal hole we are in, then attack blame games and partisanship, only to turn round and accuse the Republicans of acting in bad faith 'to further their ambitions'.

Finally, I don't recall any President in a State of the Union speech treating the attending Justices with an attack, hyperbolizing a falsehood about their opinion, and then savoring a standing ovation of the (Democrats) of the legislative branch. Talk about echos of ideological denunciation.

As I said, I don't take Elmer Gantry's, Huey Longs, Benito's, or Obama's with a grain of salt.
post #34 of 128
Obama knows how to say the word "nuclear" correctly, I'll give him that much.

Problem is, without his teleprompter it takes him three times as long to say anything.

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #35 of 128
Didn't the Great Leaders (or should we call them Dear Leaders) Reagan, Bush and GW all make critical comments in their state of the union speeches about a particular SCOTUS decision regarding abortion?

Hmm. That's OK, but Obama trying to protect the sovereignty of the nation is out of order!

 

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post #36 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

He is not serious about either nuclear power or off-shore drilling because a) they don't fit with his ideology (or the ideology and history of anti nuke of his party) and b) they were damned by feint mention. Anyone familiar with State of the Union messages will tell you that every President has padding, a list of "oh yas, we want that too" sfuff. No one takes it seriously. When we see Obama actually propose and push for serious legislation, then we can believe it...but not before.

Alos, it's a bit of hubris to take no responsibility for the fiscal hole we are in, then attack blame games and partisanship, only to turn round and accuse the Republicans of acting in bad faith 'to further their ambitions'.

Finally, I don't recall any President in a State of the Union speech treating the attending Justices with an attack, hyperbolizing a falsehood about their opinion, and then savoring a standing ovation of the (Democrats) of the legislative branch. Talk about echos of ideological denunciation.

As I said, I don't take Elmer Gantry's, Huey Longs, Benito's, or Obama's with a grain of salt.

Quote:
He is not serious about either nuclear power or off-shore drilling because a) they don't fit with his ideology (or the ideology and history of anti nuke of his party) and b) they were damned by feint mention.

Max this is exactly what everyone's been talking about! That kind of partisan point talking won't get you anywhere and it certainly won't get your party support. I just heard on the news the Democratic congress may be less popular but guess who is even less? The Republican part of congress.

People are tired of this kind of partisan behaivour. On either side. I'm totally serious about this. If the right wants to be taken seriously they really need to drop this. The two sides really need to work together or the side that appears to be holding this process back to the American voter will suffer.

You really need to get that. Or not.
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post #37 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Obama knows how to say the word "nuclear" correctly, I'll give him that much.

Problem is, without his teleprompter it takes him three times as long to say anything.

Same old crap.
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post #38 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Didn't the Great Leaders (or should we call them Dear Leaders) Reagan, Bush and GW all make critical comments in their state of the union speeches about a particular SCOTUS decision regarding abortion?

Hmm. That's OK, but Obama trying to protect the sovereignty of the nation is out of order!

I don't recall them attacking the sitting court that made the decision; i.e. Roe v. Wade.
post #39 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Max this is exactly what everyone's been talking about! That kind of partisan point talking won't get you anywhere and it certainly won't get your party support. I just heard on the news the Democratic congress may be less popular but guess who is even less? The Republican part of congress.

People are tired of this kind of partisan behavior. On either side. I'm totally serious about this. If the right wants to be taken seriously they really need to drop this. The two sides really need to work together or the side that appears to be holding this process back to the American voter will suffer.

You really need to get that. Or not.

Well, nothing like a major setback to increase calls for cooperation from those that delivered it.

Although I am not a Republican (or Democrat) I doubt partisanship has much to do with electoral success - indeed, if Reid and Pelosi have proven anything it is that 8 years of unrelenting table pounding eventually wears down the opposition and the public. I can't think of a more partisan 8 years, and it worked for Dems.

I confess my opinions are not influenced by the prospect of 'getting somewhere'; I think a person of integrity should hold to the truth, regardless of those that suggest it is better to shape one's opinion to please those in power. How about you?

Finally, Obama's stern lecturing on Washington may have some truth, but given that he has been one of the ranking hypocrites seems to have escaped more than a few of the bama-bots. And if it is called "partisan" to point out that he lied about the Court, is hypocritical, and has been partisan himself...well that may indicative of the sorry state of critical thinking.
post #40 of 128
It was the worst State of the Union I have ever seen. Period. It was partisan, arrogant, condescending and full of half-truths and perhaps outright lies. It was a campaign speech and demonstrated Obama's massive ego. It was all about him. It barely touched on terrorism. It was rhetorical and meaningless. It was far from Presidential.

He lectured Republicans on their opposition. He showed frustration at not being able to ram through healthcare with 51 votes. He called out the Supreme Court, stating something that was simply untrue in the process. He vowed to get around their decision, something that as a matter of law he cannot do. He took credit for a stimulus that has been an utter failure. He blamed Bush repeatedly. He lied, stating that "most" of the deficit was the previous administration's fault. He said most of the deficit and debt came about because of "two wars and tax cuts." This is unequivocally a lie.

He rampantly speculated, saying that if we hadn't passed the stimulus, unemployment might be double what it is today. He ignored that he promised unemployment would peak at 8% if the stimulus was passed. He even said he wanted to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell. A politically unpopular President, fresh off of devastating election and legislative losses, proposes something exceptionally controversial in a time of war. Wow. Just...wow.

The President was in a tough position. Low approval ratings. Elections losses. Failure in almost every category of job performance, from the economy to fiscal policy to broken promises on transparency and lobbyist influence. Instead of taking responsibility and promising to do better, he attacked. "I won't quit!..WE won't quit," he said. No Clinton like recognition that unless he and his party "quit" the direction they're moving, they will be FIRED. He's leading them on to a bloodbath in November. Will it be like 1994? That may not even be the question. The question may be "how much worse than 1994 will it be?"







Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm surprised there's not a thread yet about the State of the Union speech. I found very little not to like about it. But above the job creation, nuclear power, and renewed demand for healthcare reform, I liked this part the best.



It's time we stop rooting for the failure of American policies. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our citizens. It's time we stop rooting for the failure of our president.

A good many of us have never resorted to such hate. Throughout the entire Bush administration, whose policies I abhorred with heated passion, I never wanted those policies to fail in their intentions: to strengthen America (albeit through processes I may disagree with).

Enough on both sides have, however, have placed their party winning over America winning. I don't care if your party wins. If America loses, WE ALL LOSE. Pyrrhic victories are not something worth fighting for.

I hope everyone on this forum will take Obama's words to heart. Whether you dislike Obama for doing too much or failing to do enough, he speaks some serious words of wisdom of which you must take heed.
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