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"End of America"

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
This was an interesting interview. I've not read the book but might add it to my list. Excerpts:

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In her bestselling End of America, Naomi Wolf outlines the 10 warning signs that America is headed toward a fascist takeover. Using historical precedents, she explains how our government is mimicking those of Mussolini, Hitler and Stalin through practices like surveillance of ordinary citizens, restricting the press, developing paramilitary forces and arbitrarily detaining people.

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Its not just her message. She speaks their language, referring to the Founding Fathers and American Revolution as models, admitting to a profound sense of fear, warning of tyranny, fascism, Nazism and martial law. When Glenn Beck warns of these things we laugh. When Wolf draws those same connections, we listen.

Quote:
Justine Sharrock: First off, is your book still relevant under Obama?

Naomi Wolf: Unfortunately it is more relevant. Bush legalized torture, but Obama is legalizing impunity. He promised to roll stuff back, but he is institutionalizing these things forever. It is terrifying and the left doesnt seem to recognize it.

Quote:
JS: Why do you think the sides dont understand each other?

NW: Frankly, liberals are out of the habit of communicating with anyone outside their own in cohort. We have a cultural problem with self-righteousness and elitism. Liberals roll their eyes about going on "Oprah" to reach a mass audience by using language that anyone can understand even if you majored in semiotics at Yale. We look down on people we dont agree with. It doesnt serve us well.

There is also a deliberate building up of two camps that benefits from whipping up home team spirit and demonizing the opposition. With the Internet there is even more fractioning since we are in echo chambers. With so much propaganda it is hard to calm down enough to listen.

Quote:
JS: In your essay, Tea Time in America" you said that some of the Tea Partys proposals are ahead of their time. What are some examples?

NW: I used to think End the Fed people were crackpots. The media paints them as deranged. But it turned out we had good reason to have more oversight. Or take their platform about states rights. Demographically, Im a hippie from San Francisco and Im not culturally inclined to be sympathetic to states' rights. My cultural heritage is FDR and Medicare and federal government solutions. But if you think through the analysis, strengthening state rights is a good corrective of the aggregation of an over-reaching federal power. Take Californias challenge of the Patriot Act or states like Vermont leading the way with addressing the corruption of the voting system. Its a good example of the Tea Party thinking out of the box on how to address a problem.


I'm intrigued to read her book. There's even a movie. Anyone read/seen it? Thoughts?

Sounds like it isn't just the "crackpot extremist right" that's concerned about the road America is going down.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #2 of 10
It raises some interesting points and sounds like it would be a good read. It's less than $10 at Audible.com so it is a pretty likely pick up for me.

I had promised to try to get through the last Thomas Friedman book and started it but man was it terrible. There certainly is a reason they are giving it away everywhere. Even at that price I want my money back!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #3 of 10
Thread Starter 
Here's more from Naomi Wolf.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #4 of 10
Quote:
courageous acts of resistance and mass opposition finally force these totalitarians, like the TSA, to back down. But we must act if we are to have a chance.

Get on with it then. Oh I forgot, the right pander and cower to authority as witnessed in the student demos thread. So its just all gobshite and waving of guns because there is a Dem in charge, as soon as the Repungants are back in charge the TSA will be Patriotic Heroes...
post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcUK View Post

Get on with it then. Oh I forgot, the right pander and cower to authority as witnessed in the student demos thread. So its just all gobshite and waving of guns because there is a Dem in charge, as soon as the Repungants are back in charge the TSA will be Patriotic Heroes...

I ran this through Google translate but it couldn't detect the language.

A little help please.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Sounds like it isn't just the "crackpot extremist right" that's concerned about the road America is going down.

Wait....Liberals on here have been 'concerned about the road America is going down' for years....it's just that every time they mention it the Right come on and tell them to shut up.


In a broader sense though I do not think the issue is really one of "End of America" but more "End of the West" - if anything America is the only constituent part of the West that can actually 'save' it ...but as this thread suggests, some serious changes need to occur.

But will they?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Wait....Liberals on here have been 'concerned about the road America is going down' for years....it's just that every time they mention it the Right come on and tell them to shut up.


In a broader sense though I do not think the issue is really one of "End of America" but more "End of the West" - if anything America is the only constituent part of the West that can actually 'save' it ...but as this thread suggests, some serious changes need to occur.

But will they?

Quote:
Wait....Liberals on here have been 'concerned about the road America is going down' for years....it's just that every time they mention it the Right come on and tell them to shut up.

The right wingers here always seem to forget that. Like I've said before the Chinese should send George Bush a thank you letter for helping to get us out of the way. You really have to look at who's been in charge more often in the last 40 years. It hasn't been the liberal so why are things so fucked up?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Wait....Liberals on here have been 'concerned about the road America is going down' for years....it's just that every time they mention it the Right come on and tell them to shut up.

Well...again the labels probably fog things up a bit here. I think there are a faction of people (let's calling them the "ruling elite") which exist in politics, media, "private" corporate leadership, government, etc. who are often classified into these labels of left or right, liberal or conservative or the more formal brand names (Democrat or Republican) that have been complicit in this downfall. Conversely, there is another group ("ruled masses") that could be divided into these same labels. I think there are people (granted a minority) among the "rules masses" who can be called either "liberal" or "conservative" and may be in either of the major branded political parties, who have been concerned and speaking out about these things for a long time.

My comment that you quoted was from several months ago at a time when it seems that people who appeared to be more aligned with "the right" or to be "conservatives" were the ones trying to speak up about this while many who appeared to be more aligned with "the left" or to be "liberal" were down playing these concerns, even outright rejecting them as being based in a mere hatred of Obama or outright racism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

In a broader sense though I do not think the issue is really one of "End of America" but more "End of the West" - if anything America is the only constituent part of the West that can actually 'save' it ...but as this thread suggests, some serious changes need to occur.

But will they?

You are probably right about how broad this might be, and I don't know if things will change. Here in America I'm quite dumbfounded by the complacency or, worse, acceptance and even endorsement of many of the things the government of this country is doing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

In a broader sense though I do not think the issue is really one of "End of America" but more "End of the West" - if anything America is the only constituent part of the West that can actually 'save' it ...but as this thread suggests, some serious changes need to occur.

Canada will save the world.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #10 of 10
Interesting interview MJ1970. Thanks for posting it.
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